U70 Preview 2: Performance Adjustments to Repeating+Dual Crossbow Styles
- Thread starter SteelStar
- Start date
Abramax
Emerald Archer
This is definitely something worth checking.@SteelStar i thank you and i thank the ssg team for your work.
i can't comment or test these changes cause i'm not competent enough but i'd like to contribute with some humble creative brainstorm, different approach, that imho makes sense.
why the problem lies within dual and repeater shooting? what do they have in common that other ranged don't?
ammo
in game they generally use stacks of 1000 conjured bolts opposed to returning ammo like archers and throwers (edge case, great crossbow users but they shoot only once)
this is imho weirdly relevant cause inventory access and weight, or at least that what my funny brain says.
you shoot ammo, i guess.....the game checks if you have it, access inventory to destroy one and send the info to our client, and since ammo has weight, it gets re-adjusted and it sends this info too to our client and probably checks too if changed something related to light\medium\heavy load.....and on and on and on dual or repeater\expanded clip times fusillading.
these operations don't happen with returning ammo e.g. arcane archer thing\thrower, it seems like weight is unaffected, and anyway, no need to go into your inventory to destroy things, unless behind the scene the game is destroying the ammo and making us re-loot it out of thin air without telling us....but even if, the point partially stands, even if it is happening it looks like it does not get communicated our client.
all those operations....were ok in an older slower ddo but nowdays can't keep up? are supposed to be ok but maybe they are not and maybe never were?
may i humbly suggest to internally test 3 scenarios?
an expanded clipped repeater fusillading gatling-gunned rambo mode arti with 1-a regular stack of bolts VS 2-same, but a bolt has zero weight VS 3-something like the everstar equipped, returning ammo.
thank you for reading
(anyway, in a mmo, imho, ammo counting and encumbrance should not be a thing....and the same reasoning i made for ammo can be made for spell material components)
I’m honestly quite disappointed by this attack speed nerf. The gameplay and overall experience just won’t be the same, even if the DPS is adjusted. Reducing the fun is never a good approach, and frankly, it’s hard to believe that shooters are the main cause of the lag.
While I understand it might not improve game performance, instead of altering attack speed, why not try adjusting the calculations? Change how ammo is handled to reduce unnecessary calculations. Experiment with different approaches, but don't take away the essence of the gameplay.
Why is attack speed so important?
Because it’s the core of the gameplay for certain builds!
- Imbue builds rely heavily on attack speed and doubleshot / doublestrike.
- Criticals, debuffs and procs also depend on attack speed.
Manyshot has been reworked, and honestly, I do like the changes. But the rework was introduced to reduce lag, and I’m not convinced it made much difference.
So, what’s next?
- Throwers? They’re shooting far too many projectiles too quickly, right?
- Single-Weapon Fighting builds? Their attack speed must surely be causing lag.
- Strikethrough, AoE attacks, and spells? Hitting more than one enemy at a time can’t be good for calculations either—surely another cause of lag.
- Offhand attacks and shield bash? More than one hit? Of course that causes lag.
- Players swapping equipment during quests? Changing gear forces the game to recalculate stats and bonuses... lag!
Last edited:
this was really unnecessary and i didnt see any profanity - every has a right to post what they think.
i like stoner and he is normally a very chill dude.
not sure where your hate is coming from man.
rethink your attacks man.
Randomdude1223
Well-known member
When forum users address developers with comments like "please remove this dumbass animation," it can come across as unkind, which was my point in the initial comment. It could be expressed more politely. I want to clarify that I have no "hate"; I have a character at endgame that relies heavily on Fusilade, and the animation can be quite frustrating. Sometimes, I even opt for other action boosts instead. Removing the animation would be beneficial for me, and I support that change. However, when such feedback is directed at a developer in a disrespectful manner, it may hinder our cause and could be dismissed(of course that is such a broad assumption from my side so heavy emphasis on the maybe). In my conversation with Stoner, he suggested that if I don’t like it, I should just ,not read it, which felt rather childish if i am being real. I believe a more constructive approach would be better for all of us. Again, I want to emphasize that I mean have "hate" for him idc about him one bit.
Last edited:
waxinglyrical
Well-known member
History tells you this change will be a net nerf.
Last edited:
Jeronimo
Playing since 2006
This is what I'm worried about. The last 7 years, my favorit builds, my fun, have been casters and inquis. My caster was nerfed into oblivion during the spring. I was so upset that I even cancelled my VIP for a while.
However, I picked up the game again... I could still play with my old inquis build and continue to have fun... now comes this... I'm not sure if it will be good or bad... time will tell...
canicus
Well-known member
Whether it ends up being something anyone likes is yet to be seen. However, the early levels on the test server felt very, very , very slow. if they are unable to spread out the attack speed so that there more speed in the beginning and then smoothing out the curve, they need to make it "feel" more powerful. I know they are trying to get the dps the same(and I know that may not happen) and that's great and quite frankly the least they can do.
If rate of fire is no longer going to be the reason to play Inquis or repeater, they need to purposefully give us a new reason to play. Making these styles be the absolute best AOE ranged builds would be one option, having them hit like trucks would be another.
In the end, there will be many who are no longer motivated to play repeater or inquis. The question will be whether anyone new will find a reason to play them.
Stoner81
Well-known member
Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Currently nobody use it and it not count as lag generator. If penalty be removed, it can be possible usable again... and it's clearly mean more hit multiple targets = more proc = more calculations = more lag. So...
Stoner81
Well-known member
Currently nobody use it and it not count as lag generator. If penalty be removed, it can be possible usable again... and it's clearly mean more hit multiple targets = more proc = more calculations = more lag. So...
People do use it so there
and it should be removed. It was dumb thing to do in the first place and massively heavy handed nerf like everything else.Stoner81.
Positive thinking
Well-known member
I showed my boyfriend this post, he laughed and said he was well ahead of the curve of all those not spending any more extra money on the game as the improved precise shot change was the exact moment he stopped spending extra money. And with recent actions of cordovan regarding the in game voice chat failure he cancelled his vip resub and the repeater nerf has him telling me to not waste my time on the new server as he wont be joining me.
He said “he is still laughing at those that are now not spending because of current decisions in the game, if the community had of fought back at the start of this trend nothing would be like it is today”. I really dont understand what he is talking about but i will support him regardless of the clear picture.
We have even altered our guild rules to allow for complete free to play players have a functional way to advance in the guild.
Have fun out there folks.
Dendrix Deathblade
Well-known member
Dual Shooting = +100% doubleshot
Triple Shooting = +200% doubleshot
Quad shooting = +300% doubleshot
Only do 1 shot from xbows at a time. Massive reduction in calculations.
Triple Shooting = +200% doubleshot
Quad shooting = +300% doubleshot
Only do 1 shot from xbows at a time. Massive reduction in calculations.
Randomdude1223
Well-known member
Believe it or not this is a buff to repeater builds if you play them right but only at cap.
In Heroic that's the a different story.
Positive thinking
Well-known member
It will be yet another failed attempt at the game devs trying to get players to play at end game cap, believe it or not there is a whole slew of players that have zero to none interest in being around cap and they TR before or as soon as they hit cap.
If this change impacts players that enjoy repeaters throughout heroic game play, i predict it will have a net loss on their vip subscription and player base log in. Not for me i will still be logging in, but i know atleast a dozen people that literally prefer to only play repeater builds abd lol they already complain about the game changes recently this one will break them.
We the EXTREME will be here until ddo dies, but we have already provided alternatives in guild to allow players to still advance in the game as free to play in the guild as people are already talking about being more casual players in regards to time spent and also money spent with other recent changes and this change to top it off.
Funny thing is a month ago when the mist event was announced there was a lot of excitement, but i think now people will be there only for the quick and easy first time ddo points bonus.
Positive thinking
Well-known member
Has anyone tested this and have an answer as to what the comparison will be?
Randomdude1223
Well-known member
You raise a valid point about players who rely on repeaters at early levels and those who are consistently grinding and don’t stay at the cap will likely be negatively impacted, though I hope I'm mistaken. Regarding my testing, I’ve focused on my current build, which is on a triple completionist endgame character, and I’ve seen a notable increase in DPS, particularly for single-target. If you're interested, I can share the general details of my build via private message, as I'm not comfortable sharing it publicly on the forums. I too would like to know if anyone has tested DPS across various levels, especially on Heroic.
Seems I have just missed out on testing it and the servers are already closed, so for what it's worth, my opinions on the suggested change without testing it yet.
I play mostly heroics, have a massive dislike for the epics experience, and I like ranged builds. Would have loved to play bows but can't because they just feel too slow to have an impact, and with the arrows occasionally "disappearing" the recovery time from such a no-shot situation is just too long, making bows a painful leveling experience.
I am not your "I enjoy having multi-shot fast" crowd, I am your "I enjoy having a 2nd/3rd chance at the server recording my shot accurately, and a quick recovery when there's a miss" crowd. I believe if you could fix these issues this suggested change might be easier to stomach.
As it is it seems from reading your posts you are seeing players go for these playstyles, mischaracterizing why, and deciding that the server would do better if we change the very things that make them a viable playable option. I will again mention - I am not the epic endgame raid type, I will likely never have any DS worth mentioning available in heroics, and so all your suggested ideas will have a very very noticable impact on my favorite play options, with nothing really to balance the downside, as your mitigation to the loss of speed is back loaded and endgame gear reliant.
I think this is a misguided solution to the problem you have identified, I think introducing ranged AoE attacks was a step in the right direction (server wise), and perhaps making more "ranged cleave attacks" available (to all ranged builds) would have made a better option to counteract the speed removal rather than adding benefits from the backloaded doubleshot stat.
If it wasn't blatantly obvious, lack of big single target damage isn't an issue for ranged builds, if it were, you would see everyone running bows.
The issue you should look to solve is how to deal with trash mobs effectively, as that's the majority of the gameplay. Since your statements indicate you have not solved this, but rather made it worse than it currently is, I can not be in favor of your plan. I would also mention that making more ranged builds feel like bow builds is essentially taking what works for people and making it more like what doesn't work in actual game play, and while perhaps making people play less ranged builds would reduce server lag, making people play less may produce an even greater improvement than expected on that front.
Rooting for your success in mitigating lag, as today I was lag locked for about 3-4 minutes straight (party of 2, melee & caster), but seriously doubting the suggested change.
I play mostly heroics, have a massive dislike for the epics experience, and I like ranged builds. Would have loved to play bows but can't because they just feel too slow to have an impact, and with the arrows occasionally "disappearing" the recovery time from such a no-shot situation is just too long, making bows a painful leveling experience.
I am not your "I enjoy having multi-shot fast" crowd, I am your "I enjoy having a 2nd/3rd chance at the server recording my shot accurately, and a quick recovery when there's a miss" crowd. I believe if you could fix these issues this suggested change might be easier to stomach.
As it is it seems from reading your posts you are seeing players go for these playstyles, mischaracterizing why, and deciding that the server would do better if we change the very things that make them a viable playable option. I will again mention - I am not the epic endgame raid type, I will likely never have any DS worth mentioning available in heroics, and so all your suggested ideas will have a very very noticable impact on my favorite play options, with nothing really to balance the downside, as your mitigation to the loss of speed is back loaded and endgame gear reliant.
I think this is a misguided solution to the problem you have identified, I think introducing ranged AoE attacks was a step in the right direction (server wise), and perhaps making more "ranged cleave attacks" available (to all ranged builds) would have made a better option to counteract the speed removal rather than adding benefits from the backloaded doubleshot stat.
If it wasn't blatantly obvious, lack of big single target damage isn't an issue for ranged builds, if it were, you would see everyone running bows.
The issue you should look to solve is how to deal with trash mobs effectively, as that's the majority of the gameplay. Since your statements indicate you have not solved this, but rather made it worse than it currently is, I can not be in favor of your plan. I would also mention that making more ranged builds feel like bow builds is essentially taking what works for people and making it more like what doesn't work in actual game play, and while perhaps making people play less ranged builds would reduce server lag, making people play less may produce an even greater improvement than expected on that front.
Rooting for your success in mitigating lag, as today I was lag locked for about 3-4 minutes straight (party of 2, melee & caster), but seriously doubting the suggested change.
Positive thinking
Well-known member
I totally agree you should never share build concepts and explain them for devs to understand, let them do the work. Thanks for the kind offer but I dont play at end game cap.
Glad you see my point, there are people that will be affected and leave the game, just not me and the people I directly play with all the time, we plan to keep playing, although many of us are planning to move forward completely free to play until the game dies.
As I mentioned in another post in another thread my boyfriend quit spending money on the game ages ago when he was so insulted with their improved precise shot nerf. He has always believed they will nerf anything and everything to try and get players to not move and stand still or be engaged in melee. He always says if i wanted to not move i would play everquest(a game he calls the single worst game of all time for mommys basement dwellers).