u72.1 Full Review of Dragon Disciple + leveling build

Christhemiss

Christhemiss

Maker of Builds
as many of you know, i love hybrids. My EK guide has been very popular and I have had many people ask me questions about it. I have also seen a decent amount of people playing my build or some variation of it. that said, i wanted to try the new dragon disciple monk the way it was intended (by my reading of it): pure 20 DD with t5 DD and mostly using offensive spells and handwraps for melee. nowi shall get into the review...
The Good​
  • hella fast for leveling
  • DCs are insane and i could land them naked
  • fantastic at low heriocs when other casters suck
  • never had sp troubles due to the SLAs
  • flight of kings + monk speed is fast
  • monk rework greatly helped with healing ki, quick strike, and haste boost (NS) being easily gotten and helping massively
  • one of the best things for fast 1-20 lives (racials)
  • race doesnt matter (i did tabaxi for zoomies)
  • buff spells were nice
  • the extra ki on hit early on made ki easy to keep at all levels
The Bad​
  • fist of the dragon is completely useless
  • the capstone ability is worthless as those buffs should have full uptime not whatever junk it is now (at least some of them)
  • the spells do god awful damage towards end of heriocs
  • the imbue dice is backloaded at 18/20 meaning you have very few dice for the majority of leveling
  • not enough spell slots to take any variety of spells
  • i feel staff HM would objectively level better than this and its a melee. what?
  • the devestation and acolyte breath spells CD is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.
  • the extra ki weapons feels like a waste of time since pretty much all the weapon types granted are inherently bad
  • clear your mind trance bug...
  • the spellpower is a joke compared to EK (its less than half)
  • the monk abilities have 1.5 minute cd when all others have 9 seconds. uh, why?
The Ugly​
  • this build (and the archetype as a whole) is COMPLETELY unviable the moment you take 20. you are instantly worse than every caster and every melee. DO NOT LEVEL IN EPICS!
  • remember how i talked about the DCs? well there is a catch. only breath weapon DCs actually land as the tree gives a ton of breath DCs. what this means is literately ANY spell in the spellbook that isnt a breath weapon is immediately useless as it is impossible to get the DC.
  • all the spells are mcl 30... but there is no way to boost the CL beyond 20, let alone 30. how did this make it past lammania?
  • no CC of any kind. literately not a SINGLE CC spell that will work (howl of terror is not a breath spell so...)
  • the things DD loses to get the spellbook... isnt worth it as the spells suck. id take my regular monk with QP and whirlwind attack any day
  • none of the ED trees even remotely support this abomination of a class
  • no epic support of any kind feat wise (AW barely does anything)
  • suffers from all the weaknesses hybrids normally do and more
  • is objectively worse than EK in every single stat that matters on a hybrid.
  • if not light monk you dont get any healing
  • HM is arguably a better hybrid tree and you dont get it
  • my last 2 DD lives will be SDK kukri because that is more fun than this trainwreck
now that i have ranted, i wanted to report some bugs for @SteelStar ,
Bugs​
  • core 5 gives +10 mcl with the burst, not the +5 it says in the tooltip
  • the light/dark monk abilities have 1.5 minute cooldown, not 9 seconds like its supposed to
  • flawless bretahing does not give +4% universal crit chance
  • draconic devastation does not fear/slow by 90%. it does... nothing lmao
now that i have reported bugs, i will give my feedback on how to make it less bad
Feedback for Changes​
  • instead of putting all the MCL in last 2 cores, id like to see all cores give +2 mcl on all the breath spells. in addition, every core should gives +1 CL with the same spells and divine augmentation items should increase the CL
  • the 6 imbue dice at lvl 18/20 should be spread throughout the cores like HM. every core should give 1 imbue die instead of the last 2 giving 6
  • flawless breathing should reduce the cooldown of the normal spell versions in addition to the SLAs
  • draconic devastation and acolytes breath SLAs need a reduced cooldown. 25 seconds is waaaaayy too long
  • this class needs at a minimum 3 spell slows at all levels
  • fist of the mighty dragon should be changed to a whirlwind since you wont have enough feats to take the feat version
  • secret power should give 1d6 stacks of vulnerability instead of 2
  • each core should give 10 USP like EK
  • the capstone ability should have signifigantly more uptime, i suggest 30 seconds duration 1.5 minute cooldown (or just make it give a better passive, but i know this is from the pnp subclass)
now i will give the DD build i ran. note, this build used a toon with most of the past lives, so take what i say with a grain of salt. however, this class will easily work 1-20 on a no past life toon or one with all the lives, just like most things. the past lives are not needed, just play whatever race you want if you dont have the racial AP
Notes for the build​
  • i used past lives (you dont need)
  • i used tomes (again, you dont need)
  • i played as acid since few monsters are immune to it. electric is also a valid choice
  • when getting new spell level, always take the DD spell of that level first ( lesser burst at 1, acolyte breath at 6, burst at 10, devastation at 15)
  • i stopped using lesser burst/sla after i got both the sla and spell regular burst
  • take the SLAs in the tree ASAP
  • use CC handwraps till 12 when you can get adamantine wraps]
  • take the healing hands out of shintao soon unless you get racial healing (eladrin, aasimar, tabaxi)
  • go up DD first before deeper into shintao


Character name:
Classes: 20 Dragon Disciple
Race: Tabaxi Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Start Tome Final HP: 924 Displacement: 0%
Str: 8 7 20 Unc Rng: -25 Incorp: 0%
Dex: 14 7 34 PRR: 62 AC: 129
Con: 16 7 31 MRR: 30 +Healing Amp: 125
Int: 14 7 29 Dodge: 24/36 -Healing Amp: 15
Wis: 18 7 50 Fort: 15% Repair Amp: 15
Cha: 8 7 24 SR: 0 BAB: 15
DR: 10/Epic
Immunities: Disease, Natural Poison, Spawn effects of Undead, Magic Missiles, Death effect, Level drain

Heroic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Alchemist(3)
Past Life: Artificer
Past Life: Barbarian(2)
Past Life: Bard
Past Life: Cleric(3)
Past Life: Druid(2)
Past Life: Favored Soul(3)
Past Life: Fighter(3)
Past Life: Fighter - Dragon Lord(2)
Past Life: Monk(3)
Past Life: Paladin(3)
Past Life: Paladin - Sacred Fist(2)
Past Life: Ranger(3)
Past Life: Rogue(2)
Past Life: Sorcerer(2)
Past Life: Warlock
Past Life: Wizard(3)

Racial Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Aasimar(3)
Past Life: Dragonborn(3)
Past Life: Drow(3)
Past Life: Dwarf(3)
Past Life: Eladrin(3)
Past Life: Elf(3)
Past Life: Gnome(3)
Past Life: Half-Elf(3)
Past Life: Half-Orc(3)
Past Life: Halfling(3)
Past Life: Human(3)
Past Life: Shifter(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi(3)
Past Life: Tiefling(3)
Past Life: Warforged(3)

Iconic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Aasimar Scourge(3)
Past Life: Deep Gnome(3)
Past Life: Eladrin Chaosmancer(3)
Past Life: Morninglord(2)
Past Life: Purple Dragon Knight(2)
Past Life: Razorclaw Shifter(3)
Past Life: Shadar-Kai(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi Trailblazer(3)

Epic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Ancient Knowledge(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Arcane Alacrity(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Eclipse Power(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Enchant Weapon(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Energy Criticals(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Ancient Blessings(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Block Energy(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Brace(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Power Over Life and Death(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Ancient Tactics(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Doublestrike(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Fortification(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Skill Mastery(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Trap Damage Absorption(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Ancient Power(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Colors of the Queen(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Doubleshot(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Fast Healing(3)


Special Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inherent Fate Point(3)
Inherent Racial Action Point(3)
Inherent Universal Action Point(2)
Tome of Destiny(3)


Class and Feat Selection

LevelClassFeats
1Dragon Disciple(1)Standard: Quicken Spell
Dragon Arts: Spell Focus: Conjuration
Class Skills: Balance(4), Concentration(4), Jump(4), Spellcraft(4), Tumble(4)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(4)
2Dragon Disciple(2)Dragon Arts: Two Weapon Fighting
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
3Dragon Disciple(3)Standard: Maximize Spell
Monk Philosophy: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
4Dragon Disciple(4)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
5Dragon Disciple(5)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
6Dragon Disciple(6)Standard: Empower Spell
Dragon Arts: Swords to Plowshares
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
7Dragon Disciple(7)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
8Dragon Disciple(8)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
9Dragon Disciple(9)Standard: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
10Dragon Disciple(10)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
11Dragon Disciple(11)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
12Dragon Disciple(12)Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
13Dragon Disciple(13)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
14Dragon Disciple(14)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
15Dragon Disciple(15)Standard: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
16Dragon Disciple(16)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
17Dragon Disciple(17)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
18Dragon Disciple(18)Standard: Precision
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
19Dragon Disciple(19)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
20Dragon Disciple(20)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(3), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Class and Feat Selection

LevelClassFeats
1Dragon Disciple(1)Standard: Quicken Spell
Dragon Arts: Spell Focus: Conjuration
2Dragon Disciple(2)Dragon Arts: Two Weapon Fighting
3Dragon Disciple(3)Standard: Maximize Spell
Monk Philosophy: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
4Dragon Disciple(4)Wisdom: +1 Level up
5Dragon Disciple(5)
6Dragon Disciple(6)Standard: Empower Spell
Dragon Arts: Swords to Plowshares
7Dragon Disciple(7)
8Dragon Disciple(8)Wisdom: +1 Level up
9Dragon Disciple(9)Standard: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10Dragon Disciple(10)
11Dragon Disciple(11)
12Dragon Disciple(12)Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Wisdom: +1 Level up
13Dragon Disciple(13)
14Dragon Disciple(14)
15Dragon Disciple(15)Standard: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16Dragon Disciple(16)Wisdom: +1 Level up
17Dragon Disciple(17)
18Dragon Disciple(18)Standard: Precision
19Dragon Disciple(19)
20Dragon Disciple(20)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Code: 
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Skill Points     24  7  7  7  7  7  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  9  9  9  9  9  9
Skill Name       01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20  Ranks Tome Buffed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance           4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   45.0
Bluff                                                                           0.0    0   14.0
Concentration     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   40.0
Diplomacy                                       1  1  1  1  2  2  2  2  2  3   17.0    0   32.0
Disable Device                                                                  0.0    0   17.0
Haggle                                                                          0.0    0   15.0
Heal                                                                            0.0    0   29.0
Hide                                                                            0.0    0   19.0
Intimidate                                                                      0.0    0   15.0
Jump              4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   67.0
Listen                                                                          0.0    0   29.0
Move Silently                                                                   0.0    0   20.0
Open Lock                                                                       0.0    0   19.0
Perform                                                                         0.0    0   14.0
Repair                                                                          0.0    0   18.0
Search                                                                          0.0    0   18.0
Spellcraft        4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   47.0
Spot                                                                            0.0    0   29.0
Swim                 1  1  1  1  1  2  2  2  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   35.0
Tumble            4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   45.0
Use Magic Device  2  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½      11.0    0   27.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Active Stances
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arcane: Energy Criticals
Divine: Ancient Blessings
Martial: Doublestrike
Primal: Ancient Power
Iconic: Aasimar Scourge
Monk Stance: Ocean Stance
Metamagics: Quicken Spell
Imbue: Power in Practice: Acid
Battle Trance: Clear Your Mind
Auto: Cloth Armor
Auto: Centered
Auto: Lawful
Auto: Empty
Auto: Tabaxi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 18, Universal 2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tabaxi - Points spent: 18
Core1 Nimble Cat I
Core2 Ability I: +1 Dexterity
Tier1 Sneaky Strikes I
Tier1 Sharp Claws - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Acrobatic - 2 Ranks
Core3 Nimble Cat II
Core4 Ability II: +1 Dexterity
Core5 Nimble Cat III
Tier2 High Places
Tier2 Honed reflexes
Tier3 Sneaky Strikes II
Tier3 Focused Agility
Tier4 Fast Sprinter
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dragon Disciple - Points spent: 41
Core1 Draconic Studies
Tier1 Lesser Draconic Burst
Tier1 Draconic Devotion I
Tier1 Power in Practice
Tier1 Heart of the Dragon - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Acolyte's Breath
Core2 Way of the Mighty Dragon I
Tier2 Power Begets Power
Tier2 Discipleship I
Tier2 Innate Arcana - 3 Ranks
Core3 Way of the Mighty Dragon II
Tier3 Draconic Devotion II
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Wisdom
Tier3 Way of the Dragon: Channel the Enlightened Dragon
Tier3 Draconic Burst
Tier3 Clear Your Mind - 3 Ranks
Core4 Fist of the Dragon
Tier4 Discipleship II
Tier4 Draconic Devotion III
Tier4 Secret Power
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Wisdom
Tier5 Draconic Devastation
Tier5 Peace in Destruction
Tier5 Perfect Disciple
Tier5 Shining Scales
Tier5 Perfect Breathing
Core5 Way of the Mighty Dragon III
Core6 Draconic Apotheosis
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja Spy - Points spent: 8
Core1 Basic Ninja Training
Tier1 Sneak Attack Training I
Tier1 Subtlety - 2 Ranks
Tier2 Action Boost Selection: Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shintao - Points spent: 31
Core1 Bastion of Purity
Tier1 Disciplined Training: Deft Strikes - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Shintao Studies I
Tier1 Fast Hands: Melee - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Shintao Studies II
Core2 Protection from Tainted Creatures
Tier2 Quick Strike - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Iron Skin - 3 Ranks
Core3 Iron Hand
Tier3 Hands of Mercy: Hand of Healing
Tier3 Shintao Studies III
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Wisdom
Tier3 Jade Strike
Core4 Argent Fist
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Wisdom
Core5 Touch the Void Dragon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harper Agent - Points spent: 2
Core1 Agent of Good I
Tier1 Weathered Traveler - 1 Ranks
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Dragon Disciple Spells

LevelSpell NameSchoolCL/MCLDCAverage DamageCritical Damage
1JumpTransmutation----
1ShieldAbjuration----
2Acolyte's Breath: BlackConjuration, Breath Weapon----
2Elemental WeaponsEvocation----
3Draconic Burst: AcidConjuration, Breath Weapon----
3Greater Elemental WeaponsEvocation----
4Death WardTransmutation----
4Draconic Devastation: BlackConjuration, Breath Weapon----
Spell Like / Special Abilities
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dismiss Charm
Flight of Kings
Shadow Walk
Lesser Draconic Burst: Acid
Lesser Draconic Burst: Cold
Lesser Draconic Burst: Electric
Lesser Draconic Burst: Fire
Lesser Draconic Burst: Poison
Acolyte's Breath: Black
Acolyte's Breath: Blue
Acolyte's Breath: Green
Acolyte's Breath: Red
Acolyte's Breath: White
Draconic Burst: Acid
Draconic Burst: Cold
Draconic Burst: Electric
Draconic Burst: Fire
Draconic Burst: Poison
Draconic Devastation: Black
Draconic Devastation: Blue
Draconic Devastation: Green
Draconic Devastation: Red
Draconic Devastation: White
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thats all i have to say about dragon disciple. hopefully my next review/build wont be so negative. if you have any questions or comments i would love to hear them!
 
Last edited:
H

HeavyLobster

Member
My most recent life I was able to get it working alright in epic. I took the exact same feats as you except using Evocation as I went fire. I took dragonborn as my race as the tree gave me 30 Spell Power, 8% chance to knock down, +1 CL and +6 DC.

I used the exalted angel mantle as I was playing as a hybrid and wrathful form was permanently up from the bursts (I still used lesser). The heal is also triggered by the shintao heal, so it was able to stay relevant in epic. I used quick cutter for my epic strike, and grabbed the breath paralyze from draconic for CC (combined with the knockdown).

Also, you can boost the caster level with element augmentation, such as Epic Helm of the Red Dragon.
I never bothered with the spellbook versions, I only used the SLA.
 
R

Raedier

Well-known member
Christhemiss said:
as many of you know, i love hybrids. My EK guide has been very popular and I have had many people ask me questions about it. I have also seen a decent amount of people playing my build or some variation of it. that said, i wanted to try the new dragon disciple monk the way it was intended (by my reading of it): pure 20 DD with t5 DD and mostly using offensive spells and handwraps for melee. nowi shall get into the review...
The Good​
  • hella fast for leveling
  • DCs are insane and i could land them naked
  • fantastic at low heriocs when other casters suck
  • never had sp troubles due to the SLAs
  • flight of kings + monk speed is fast
  • monk rework greatly helped with healing ki, quick strike, and haste boost (NS) being easily gotten and helping massively
  • one of the best things for fast 1-20 lives (racials)
  • race doesnt matter (i did tabaxi for zoomies)
  • buff spells were nice
  • the extra ki on hit early on made ki easy to keep at all levels
The Bad​
  • fist of the dragon is completely useless
  • the capstone ability is worthless as those buffs should have full uptime not whatever junk it is now (at least some of them)
  • the spells do god awful damage towards end of heriocs
  • the imbue dice is backloaded at 18/20 meaning you have very few dice for the majority of leveling
  • not enough spell slots to take any variety of spells
  • i feel staff HM would objectively level better than this and its a melee. what?
  • the devestation and acolyte breath spells CD is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.
  • the extra ki weapons feels like a waste of time since pretty much all the weapon types granted are inherently bad
  • clear your mind trance bug...
  • the spellpower is a joke compared to EK (its less than half)
  • the monk abilities have 1.5 minute cd when all others have 9 seconds. uh, why?
The Ugly​
  • this build (and the archetype as a whole) is COMPLETELY unviable the moment you take 20. you are instantly worse than every caster and every melee. DO NOT LEVEL IN EPICS!
  • remember how i talked about the DCs? well there is a catch. only breath weapon DCs actually land as the tree gives a ton of breath DCs. what this means is literately ANY spell in the spellbook that isnt a breath weapon is immediately useless as it is impossible to get the DC.
  • all the spells are mcl 30... but there is no way to boost the CL beyond 20, let alone 30. how did this make it past lammania?
  • no CC of any kind. literately not a SINGLE CC spell that will work (howl of terror is not a breath spell so...)
  • the things DD loses to get the spellbook... isnt worth it as the spells suck. id take my regular monk with QP and whirlwind attack any day
  • none of the ED trees even remotely support this abomination of a class
  • no epic support of any kind feat wise (AW barely does anything)
  • suffers from all the weaknesses hybrids normally do and more
  • is objectively worse than EK in every single stat that matters on a hybrid.
  • if not light monk you dont get any healing
  • HM is arguably a better hybrid tree and you dont get it
  • my last 2 DD lives will be SDK kukri because that is more fun than this trainwreck
now that i have ranted, i wanted to report some bugs for @SteelStar ,
Bugs​
  • core 5 gives +10 mcl with the burst, not the +5 it says in the tooltip
  • the light/dark monk abilities have 1.5 minute cooldown, not 9 seconds like its supposed to
  • flawless bretahing does not give +4% universal crit chance
  • draconic devastation does not fear/slow by 90%. it does... nothing lmao
now that i have reported bugs, i will give my feedback on how to make it less bad
Feedback for Changes​
  • instead of putting all the MCL in last 2 cores, id like to see all cores give +2 mcl on all the breath spells. in addition, every core should gives +1 CL with the same spells and divine augmentation items should increase the CL
  • the 6 imbue dice at lvl 18/20 should be spread throughout the cores like HM. every core should give 1 imbue die instead of the last 2 giving 6
  • flawless breathing should reduce the cooldown of the normal spell versions in addition to the SLAs
  • draconic devastation and acolytes breath SLAs need a reduced cooldown. 25 seconds is waaaaayy too long
  • this class needs at a minimum 3 spell slows at all levels
  • fist of the mighty dragon should be changed to a whirlwind since you wont have enough feats to take the feat version
  • secret power should give 1d6 stacks of vulnerability instead of 2
  • each core should give 10 USP like EK
  • the capstone ability should have signifigantly more uptime, i suggest 30 seconds duration 1.5 minute cooldown (or just make it give a better passive, but i know this is from the pnp subclass)
now i will give the DD build i ran. note, this build used a toon with most of the past lives, so take what i say with a grain of salt. however, this class will easily work 1-20 on a no past life toon or one with all the lives, just like most things. the past lives are not needed, just play whatever race you want if you dont have the racial AP
Notes for the build​
  • i used past lives (you dont need)
  • i used tomes (again, you dont need)
  • i played as acid since few monsters are immune to it. electric is also a valid choice
  • when getting new spell level, always take the DD spell of that level first ( lesser burst at 1, acolyte breath at 6, burst at 10, devastation at 15)
  • i stopped using lesser burst/sla after i got both the sla and spell regular burst
  • take the SLAs in the tree ASAP
  • use CC handwraps till 12 when you can get adamantine wraps]
  • take the healing hands out of shintao soon unless you get racial healing (eladrin, aasimar, tabaxi)
  • go up DD first before deeper into shintao


Character name:
Classes: 20 Dragon Disciple
Race: Tabaxi Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Start Tome Final HP: 924 Displacement: 0%
Str: 8 7 20 Unc Rng: -25 Incorp: 0%
Dex: 14 7 34 PRR: 62 AC: 129
Con: 16 7 31 MRR: 30 +Healing Amp: 125
Int: 14 7 29 Dodge: 24/36 -Healing Amp: 15
Wis: 18 7 50 Fort: 15% Repair Amp: 15
Cha: 8 7 24 SR: 0 BAB: 15
DR: 10/Epic
Immunities: Disease, Natural Poison, Spawn effects of Undead, Magic Missiles, Death effect, Level drain

Heroic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Alchemist(3)
Past Life: Artificer
Past Life: Barbarian(2)
Past Life: Bard
Past Life: Cleric(3)
Past Life: Druid(2)
Past Life: Favored Soul(3)
Past Life: Fighter(3)
Past Life: Fighter - Dragon Lord(2)
Past Life: Monk(3)
Past Life: Paladin(3)
Past Life: Paladin - Sacred Fist(2)
Past Life: Ranger(3)
Past Life: Rogue(2)
Past Life: Sorcerer(2)
Past Life: Warlock
Past Life: Wizard(3)

Racial Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Aasimar(3)
Past Life: Dragonborn(3)
Past Life: Drow(3)
Past Life: Dwarf(3)
Past Life: Eladrin(3)
Past Life: Elf(3)
Past Life: Gnome(3)
Past Life: Half-Elf(3)
Past Life: Half-Orc(3)
Past Life: Halfling(3)
Past Life: Human(3)
Past Life: Shifter(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi(3)
Past Life: Tiefling(3)
Past Life: Warforged(3)

Iconic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Aasimar Scourge(3)
Past Life: Deep Gnome(3)
Past Life: Eladrin Chaosmancer(3)
Past Life: Morninglord(2)
Past Life: Purple Dragon Knight(2)
Past Life: Razorclaw Shifter(3)
Past Life: Shadar-Kai(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi Trailblazer(3)

Epic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Ancient Knowledge(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Arcane Alacrity(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Eclipse Power(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Enchant Weapon(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Energy Criticals(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Ancient Blessings(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Block Energy(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Brace(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Power Over Life and Death(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Ancient Tactics(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Doublestrike(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Fortification(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Skill Mastery(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Trap Damage Absorption(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Ancient Power(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Colors of the Queen(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Doubleshot(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Fast Healing(3)


Special Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inherent Fate Point(3)
Inherent Racial Action Point(3)
Inherent Universal Action Point(2)
Tome of Destiny(3)


Class and Feat Selection

LevelClassFeats
1Dragon Disciple(1)Standard: Quicken Spell
Dragon Arts: Spell Focus: Conjuration
Class Skills: Balance(4), Concentration(4), Jump(4), Spellcraft(4), Tumble(4)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(4)
2Dragon Disciple(2)Dragon Arts: Two Weapon Fighting
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
3Dragon Disciple(3)Standard: Maximize Spell
Monk Philosophy: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
4Dragon Disciple(4)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
5Dragon Disciple(5)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
6Dragon Disciple(6)Standard: Empower Spell
Dragon Arts: Swords to Plowshares
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
7Dragon Disciple(7)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
8Dragon Disciple(8)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
9Dragon Disciple(9)Standard: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
10Dragon Disciple(10)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(2), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
11Dragon Disciple(11)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
12Dragon Disciple(12)Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
13Dragon Disciple(13)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
14Dragon Disciple(14)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(1), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
15Dragon Disciple(15)Standard: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
16Dragon Disciple(16)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
17Dragon Disciple(17)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
18Dragon Disciple(18)Standard: Precision
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
19Dragon Disciple(19)Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(2), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Cross Class Skills: Use Magic Device(1)
20Dragon Disciple(20)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Class Skills: Balance(1), Concentration(1), Diplomacy(3), Jump(1), Spellcraft(1), Swim(1), Tumble(1)
Class and Feat Selection

LevelClassFeats
1Dragon Disciple(1)Standard: Quicken Spell
Dragon Arts: Spell Focus: Conjuration
2Dragon Disciple(2)Dragon Arts: Two Weapon Fighting
3Dragon Disciple(3)Standard: Maximize Spell
Monk Philosophy: Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
4Dragon Disciple(4)Wisdom: +1 Level up
5Dragon Disciple(5)
6Dragon Disciple(6)Standard: Empower Spell
Dragon Arts: Swords to Plowshares
7Dragon Disciple(7)
8Dragon Disciple(8)Wisdom: +1 Level up
9Dragon Disciple(9)Standard: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10Dragon Disciple(10)
11Dragon Disciple(11)
12Dragon Disciple(12)Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Wisdom: +1 Level up
13Dragon Disciple(13)
14Dragon Disciple(14)
15Dragon Disciple(15)Standard: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16Dragon Disciple(16)Wisdom: +1 Level up
17Dragon Disciple(17)
18Dragon Disciple(18)Standard: Precision
19Dragon Disciple(19)
20Dragon Disciple(20)Wisdom: +1 Level up
Code: 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points     24  7  7  7  7  7  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  9  9  9  9  9  9
Skill Name       01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20  Ranks Tome Buffed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance           4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   45.0
Bluff                                                                           0.0    0   14.0
Concentration     4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   40.0
Diplomacy                                       1  1  1  1  2  2  2  2  2  3   17.0    0   32.0
Disable Device                                                                  0.0    0   17.0
Haggle                                                                          0.0    0   15.0
Heal                                                                            0.0    0   29.0
Hide                                                                            0.0    0   19.0
Intimidate                                                                      0.0    0   15.0
Jump              4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   67.0
Listen                                                                          0.0    0   29.0
Move Silently                                                                   0.0    0   20.0
Open Lock                                                                       0.0    0   19.0
Perform                                                                         0.0    0   14.0
Repair                                                                          0.0    0   18.0
Search                                                                          0.0    0   18.0
Spellcraft        4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   47.0
Spot                                                                            0.0    0   29.0
Swim                 1  1  1  1  1  2  2  2  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   35.0
Tumble            4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1   23.0    0   45.0
Use Magic Device  2  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½      11.0    0   27.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Active Stances
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arcane: Energy Criticals
Divine: Ancient Blessings
Martial: Doublestrike
Primal: Ancient Power
Iconic: Aasimar Scourge
Monk Stance: Ocean Stance
Metamagics: Quicken Spell
Imbue: Power in Practice: Acid
Battle Trance: Clear Your Mind
Auto: Cloth Armor
Auto: Centered
Auto: Lawful
Auto: Empty
Auto: Tabaxi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 18, Universal 2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tabaxi - Points spent: 18
Core1 Nimble Cat I
Core2 Ability I: +1 Dexterity
Tier1 Sneaky Strikes I
Tier1 Sharp Claws - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Acrobatic - 2 Ranks
Core3 Nimble Cat II
Core4 Ability II: +1 Dexterity
Core5 Nimble Cat III
Tier2 High Places
Tier2 Honed reflexes
Tier3 Sneaky Strikes II
Tier3 Focused Agility
Tier4 Fast Sprinter
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dragon Disciple - Points spent: 41
Core1 Draconic Studies
Tier1 Lesser Draconic Burst
Tier1 Draconic Devotion I
Tier1 Power in Practice
Tier1 Heart of the Dragon - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Acolyte's Breath
Core2 Way of the Mighty Dragon I
Tier2 Power Begets Power
Tier2 Discipleship I
Tier2 Innate Arcana - 3 Ranks
Core3 Way of the Mighty Dragon II
Tier3 Draconic Devotion II
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Wisdom
Tier3 Way of the Dragon: Channel the Enlightened Dragon
Tier3 Draconic Burst
Tier3 Clear Your Mind - 3 Ranks
Core4 Fist of the Dragon
Tier4 Discipleship II
Tier4 Draconic Devotion III
Tier4 Secret Power
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Wisdom
Tier5 Draconic Devastation
Tier5 Peace in Destruction
Tier5 Perfect Disciple
Tier5 Shining Scales
Tier5 Perfect Breathing
Core5 Way of the Mighty Dragon III
Core6 Draconic Apotheosis
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ninja Spy - Points spent: 8
Core1 Basic Ninja Training
Tier1 Sneak Attack Training I
Tier1 Subtlety - 2 Ranks
Tier2 Action Boost Selection: Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shintao - Points spent: 31
Core1 Bastion of Purity
Tier1 Disciplined Training: Deft Strikes - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Shintao Studies I
Tier1 Fast Hands: Melee - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Shintao Studies II
Core2 Protection from Tainted Creatures
Tier2 Quick Strike - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Iron Skin - 3 Ranks
Core3 Iron Hand
Tier3 Hands of Mercy: Hand of Healing
Tier3 Shintao Studies III
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Wisdom
Tier3 Jade Strike
Core4 Argent Fist
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Wisdom
Core5 Touch the Void Dragon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harper Agent - Points spent: 2
Core1 Agent of Good I
Tier1 Weathered Traveler - 1 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dragon Disciple Spells

LevelSpell NameSchoolCL/MCLDCAverage DamageCritical Damage
1JumpTransmutation----
1ShieldAbjuration----
2Acolyte's Breath: BlackConjuration, Breath Weapon----
2Elemental WeaponsEvocation----
3Draconic Burst: AcidConjuration, Breath Weapon----
3Greater Elemental WeaponsEvocation----
4Death WardTransmutation----
4Draconic Devastation: BlackConjuration, Breath Weapon----
Spell Like / Special Abilities
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dismiss Charm
Flight of Kings
Shadow Walk
Lesser Draconic Burst: Acid
Lesser Draconic Burst: Cold
Lesser Draconic Burst: Electric
Lesser Draconic Burst: Fire
Lesser Draconic Burst: Poison
Acolyte's Breath: Black
Acolyte's Breath: Blue
Acolyte's Breath: Green
Acolyte's Breath: Red
Acolyte's Breath: White
Draconic Burst: Acid
Draconic Burst: Cold
Draconic Burst: Electric
Draconic Burst: Fire
Draconic Burst: Poison
Draconic Devastation: Black
Draconic Devastation: Blue
Draconic Devastation: Green
Draconic Devastation: Red
Draconic Devastation: White
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



thats all i have to say about dragon disciple. hopefully my next review/build wont be so negative. if you have any questions or comments i would love to hear them!
Click to expand...
I haven’t played it and I won’t and these points pretty much sum up why, I hope the devs will start creating more archetypes similar to DL in the sense that they are viable at endgame instead of garbage trainwrecks like this, blightcaster, dark apostate or acolyte of the skin.
I always hear arguments similar to “well 90% of the playerbase is only leveling”
Isn’t all that leveling done to get more power at endgame? That’s where the real game is at imo, leveling can be fun too but is often just seen as a grind and mandatory imo.

Thanks for the writeup.
 
Frantik

Frantik

Well-known member
Yes, thanks for the write up. I'm currently testing a HM qstaff build [kudos to Tilo and Kali for so much inspiration] and am eager to also test a DD but won't until some of the key problems that you cite have been corrected by our friends at SSG. I am currently leaning towards a 18/1/1 split with SF to be able to acess qstaff and shuriken.

The ridiculous adds from cores 5 and 6 for +5 and +10 MCL to Dragon Burst when it's already at 30 MCL seems like a weird April Fools joke; perhaps SSG could also give us another 10 MCL by introducing a Master of Dragon epic feat just to round it off? I am sure that SSG will recognise this oversight and change the cores to provide +10 CL, because surely it was a mistype ;)

I would appreciate if the OP would expand on why Core 4 Fist of the Dragon is so bad and what they feel would be required to make it useful.

I also agree with OP concerning the number of feats required; let's say you went pure DD with SWF. As a minimum, you want 3 x SWF, Quicken and Maximize, and really Whirlwind due to the lack of AoE/cleave abilities and Improved Critical. That's already 9 feats, so unless human that leaves you one to choose from Empower, Precision, Offhand Versatility, Knight's Training (for one of the extra centred weapon choices) and hell knows how you are supposed to fit in any spell school focus feats. Of course you can spend two feats into, say, Spell Focus and Great Spell Focus Conjuration, Quicken, Maximize and Empower (you're a hybrid caster, right?) leaving you normally with 5 feats left to try and craft some meaningful, yet ultimately gimped, melee potential into the build. While the tree seems to ooze SLAs, the best two with long CDs, the fact there is little spell power or no AoE melee capability means that a DD build will utimately struggle at end game, let alone leveling from 20+.

Ho hum.
 
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Frantik

Frantik

Well-known member
I'm thinking of two 18/1/1 splits...

(1) DD/SF/Fig and Trailblazer for Qtaffs (Whirlwind too)
(2) DD/SDK/Fig for chains with light melee weapons (this would also free up a valuable lvl 3 spell slot)
 
Frantik

Frantik

Well-known member
And another thing... i've been straining my brain:

concerning the cooldowns for the Acolyte's Breath and Draconic Devastation SLAs. At 25 seconds, they will be horrendous during epic. So I humbly suggest to reduce them to 24 seconds (wait, it gets better!), modify the T5 ability Flawless Breathing to reduce them by 6 seconds (instead of by 33%), and add a further 6 second reduction to the 6th core.
 
Christhemiss

Christhemiss

Maker of Builds
HeavyLobster said:
My most recent life I was able to get it working alright in epic. I took the exact same feats as you except using Evocation as I went fire. I took dragonborn as my race as the tree gave me 30 Spell Power, 8% chance to knock down, +1 CL and +6 DC.

I used the exalted angel mantle as I was playing as a hybrid and wrathful form was permanently up from the bursts (I still used lesser). The heal is also triggered by the shintao heal, so it was able to stay relevant in epic. I used quick cutter for my epic strike, and grabbed the breath paralyze from draconic for CC (combined with the knockdown).

Also, you can boost the caster level with element augmentation, such as Epic Helm of the Red Dragon.
I never bothered with the spellbook versions, I only used the SLA.
Click to expand...
you can play it in epics. its just worse than pretty much everything else, so i wouldnt recommend it
 
Christhemiss

Christhemiss

Maker of Builds
Frantik said:
I would appreciate if the OP would expand on why Core 4 Fist of the Dragon is so bad and what they feel would be required to make it useful.
Click to expand...
it is so goddamn slow that i could have cast 2-3 spells in the same time. not worth the button press even if its aoe
 
Frantik

Frantik

Well-known member
So let's sum up, its Trance is broken, its best 2 SLAs have horrendous CDs, its core 4 is clunky slow, for a melee caster hybrid tree it has low spell power (compared to EK for example), it don't get much spell points, it has no AoE melee attack (like EK), it needs a ton of feats to function and gets three (which isn't nothing but... maybe struggling to spec a hybrid), its core 6 ability is meh, and compared to a Paladin, which is also a warrior type class, it gets half the number of spells per level. Mmmm. I think I'll put off testing it until it gets a pass, and a big one.
 
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Reactions: DBZ
Frantik

Frantik

Well-known member
Christhemiss said:
i actually never had issues with the spellpoints due to using the SLAs a lot. they dont cost any sp and i was able to use quicken at lvl 1. rest is true
Click to expand...
In my head, I had the idea of using Black Dragon Bolt with metas for boss/named/reaper single target madness :)
 
Nickodeamous

Nickodeamous

Well-known member
I just finished my 3 PLs on DD. I have to agree with pretty much everything you said. There is too many goodies, but its spread way too thin. its mediocre at both spellcasting and melee, but it can do both. Early leveling was fun and easy, but that lasted only for a while. The higher you go, the more other classes just outclass this one. Oh well, coulda had a samurai :( womp womp
 
FuzzyDuck81

FuzzyDuck81

Well-known member
I disagree with the point about additional weapon types counting as centered - more variety is always nice & adding more possibilities for the future is always good, in the meantime though I'm at level 17 on mine & rocking dual axe of adaxus with knight's training & IC:Slashing & those things are brutal especially running in fire stance.
 
Chuck_Roast

Chuck_Roast

Active member
Thanks for this write up, and making sure to call out the bugs and cons. I've done the 3 PLs for DD and found much the same as your experience: great for heroics (but really, what isn't? you can run a gimp through heroics and not really feel it in most cases until you push skulls), but terrible in epics. Overall, you'd be better off doing HM over DD 100%.

It reminds me a LOT of DA for cleric. It WANTS to be an EK, and you can see where it's trying to go...but ultimately it doesn't quite get there. It does have a lot going for it, and maybe after some rework it will be much better, but there are definitely better options out there if you're playing to the meta. Otherwise, it's interesting/ok for most of the game.
 
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Christhemiss

Christhemiss

Maker of Builds
ok, 2nd DDM life done so im gonna post the build as well (and ill post my third when its done)
(will be less detailed than my full endgame builds as this is just a leveling build
Build Split Reason​
I wanted to get DD past life, play SDK, and use kukris. that was the reason. and yes i wanted to play as basically a non DDM build because DDM is terrible. core of the build is 9 druid 9 DDM 2 rouge. rouge for imbue dice (and save heart), 9 druid for greater vigor (healing, if you arent a sissy and can be a big boy without heals take 10 DDM for GEW), and 9 DDM because... i wanted the past life... the reason for druid and not anything else is because in wofl form you move at over 180% movespeed. this is a speedleveling build for sure
Pros​
  • doesnt play as DDM
  • turbo speed
  • is the best race in the game (in my opinion)
  • lots of too hit with trance
  • can heal kinda sorta maybe not good at cap but enough for leveling
  • very tanky with dodge and displacement
  • easy to hit DS cap way before level cap
Cons​
  • can only be a SDK
  • requires ~15 racial AP to be truly busted
  • is not inquisitive
  • requires all tomes
  • junk at endgame (i took it into DoV, big mistake)
  • meme build for meme class
  • is not razorclaw
  • does not solo r10s
  • i would probably not play this again as DDM is worse than basically anything else (slap 9 reg monk and this build is MILES better)
Build Notes​
  • for leveling kukris, use a syranian or CC one at 15, use epic midnight greetings at 20, and thats it. you can throw in thunderholme if you want but i just didnt care enough to go to the bank lol
  • for herioc trees, start with t5 of NP, then work your way to t4 VKF. DDM/assassin come last as you dont have ki regen for bugged trance in heriocs and your imbue kinda stinks with the few dice
  • as always, sharn gear at 15 and double gem sets at 20 are a huge help
  • since this is an animal build, please use the cosmetic aspect of the wild hunt so you are not hideously ugly
  • spells dont matter for druid besides the buffs and DW/greater vigor. you will not cast the useless spells i put, you just have spare slots
The Build​

Character name:
Classes: 9 Dragon Disciple, 9 Druid, 2 Rogue, E10, L4
Race: Shadar-Kai Alignment: Lawful Neutral

Start Tome Final HP: 2379 Displacement: 20%
Str: 8 8 23 Unc Rng: -25 Incorp: 0%
Dex: 12 8 32 PRR: 105 AC: 156
Con: 16 8 33 MRR: 47 +Healing Amp: 95
Int: 14 8 28 Dodge: 19/34 -Healing Amp: 25
Wis: 18 8 49 Fort: 15% Repair Amp: 25
Cha: 8 8 23 SR: 4 BAB: 18
DR:
Immunities: Fear, Level Drain, Knockdown, Fear, Slippery Surfaces, Falling Damage, Most forms of Knockdown, Magic Missiles, Energy Drain, Poison, Disease, Death effect, Level drain, Drowning, Magic Missiles

Heroic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Alchemist(3)
Past Life: Artificer(2)
Past Life: Barbarian(3)
Past Life: Bard
Past Life: Cleric(3)
Past Life: Druid(2)
Past Life: Favored Soul(3)
Past Life: Fighter(3)
Past Life: Fighter - Dragon Lord(2)
Past Life: Monk(3)
Past Life: Monk - Dragon Disciple
Past Life: Paladin(3)
Past Life: Paladin - Sacred Fist(2)
Past Life: Ranger(3)
Past Life: Rogue(2)
Past Life: Sorcerer(2)
Past Life: Warlock
Past Life: Wizard(3)

Racial Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Aasimar(3)
Past Life: Dragonborn(3)
Past Life: Drow(3)
Past Life: Dwarf(3)
Past Life: Eladrin(3)
Past Life: Elf(3)
Past Life: Gnome(3)
Past Life: Half-Elf(3)
Past Life: Half-Orc(3)
Past Life: Halfling(3)
Past Life: Human(3)
Past Life: Shifter(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi(3)
Past Life: Tiefling(3)
Past Life: Warforged(3)

Iconic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Aasimar Scourge(3)
Past Life: Deep Gnome(3)
Past Life: Eladrin Chaosmancer(3)
Past Life: Morninglord(2)
Past Life: Purple Dragon Knight(2)
Past Life: Razorclaw Shifter(3)
Past Life: Shadar-Kai(3)
Past Life: Tabaxi Trailblazer(3)

Epic Past Lives
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Ancient Knowledge(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Arcane Alacrity(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Eclipse Power(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Enchant Weapon(3)
Past Life: Arcane Sphere: Energy Criticals(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Ancient Blessings(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Block Energy(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Brace(3)
Past Life: Divine Sphere: Power Over Life and Death(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Ancient Tactics(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Doublestrike(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Fortification(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Skill Mastery(3)
Past Life: Martial Sphere: Trap Damage Absorption(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Ancient Power(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Colors of the Queen(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Doubleshot(3)
Past Life: Primal Sphere: Fast Healing(3)


Special Feats
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Inherent Fate Point(3)
Inherent Racial Action Point(3)
Inherent Universal Action Point(2)
Tome of Destiny(3)


Class and Feat Selection
LevelClassFeats
1Rogue(1)Standard: Toughness
Class Skills: Balance(2)
2Rogue(2)
3Druid(1)Standard: Quicken Spell
4Druid(2)Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Wolf
Wisdom: +1 Level up
5Druid(3)
6Druid(4)Standard: Natural Fighting
7Druid(5)Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Bear
8Druid(6)Wisdom: +1 Level up
9Druid(7)Standard: Natural Fighting
10Druid(8)Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Winter Wolf
11Druid(9)
12Dragon Disciple(1)Standard: Natural Fighting
Dragon Arts: Toughness
Wisdom: +1 Level up
13Dragon Disciple(2)Dragon Arts: Precision
14Dragon Disciple(3)Monk Philosophy: Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
15Dragon Disciple(4)Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
16Dragon Disciple(5)Wisdom: +1 Level up
17Dragon Disciple(6)Dragon Arts: Single Weapon Fighting
18Dragon Disciple(7)Standard: Master of Forms
19Dragon Disciple(8)
20Dragon Disciple(9)Wisdom: +1 Level up
21Epic(1)Epic Feat: Eerie Aim
22Epic(2)Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Natural Fighting
23Epic(3)
24Epic(4)Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
Wisdom: +1 Level up
25Epic(5)Epic Destiny Feat: Doublestrike
26Epic(6)
27Epic(7)Epic Feat: Epic Toughness
28Epic(8)Epic Destiny Feat: Embodiment of Law
Wisdom: +1 Level up
29Epic(9)
30Epic(10)Epic Feat: Epic Reflexes
Legendary Feat: Scion of Arborea
31Legendary(1)Epic Destiny Feat: Wild Force
32Legendary(2)Wisdom: +1 Level up
33Legendary(3)Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
34Legendary(4)Epic Destiny Feat: Titan's Blood
Class and Feat Selection
LevelClassFeats
1Rogue(1)Standard: Toughness
2Rogue(2)
3Druid(1)Standard: Quicken Spell
4Druid(2)Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Wolf
Wisdom: +1 Level up
5Druid(3)
6Druid(4)Standard: Natural Fighting
7Druid(5)Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Bear
8Druid(6)Wisdom: +1 Level up
9Druid(7)Standard: Natural Fighting
10Druid(8)Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Winter Wolf
11Druid(9)
12Dragon Disciple(1)Standard: Natural Fighting
Dragon Arts: Toughness
Wisdom: +1 Level up
13Dragon Disciple(2)Dragon Arts: Precision
14Dragon Disciple(3)Monk Philosophy: Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
15Dragon Disciple(4)Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
16Dragon Disciple(5)Wisdom: +1 Level up
17Dragon Disciple(6)Dragon Arts: Single Weapon Fighting
18Dragon Disciple(7)Standard: Master of Forms
19Dragon Disciple(8)
20Dragon Disciple(9)Wisdom: +1 Level up
21Epic(1)Epic Feat: Eerie Aim
22Epic(2)Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Natural Fighting
23Epic(3)
24Epic(4)Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
Wisdom: +1 Level up
25Epic(5)Epic Destiny Feat: Doublestrike
26Epic(6)
27Epic(7)Epic Feat: Epic Toughness
28Epic(8)Epic Destiny Feat: Embodiment of Law
Wisdom: +1 Level up
29Epic(9)
30Epic(10)Epic Feat: Epic Reflexes
Legendary Feat: Scion of Arborea
31Legendary(1)Epic Destiny Feat: Wild Force
32Legendary(2)Wisdom: +1 Level up
33Legendary(3)Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
34Legendary(4)Epic Destiny Feat: Titan's Blood
Code: 
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Skill Points     40 11  7  7  7  7  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  9  9  9  9  9  9
Skill Name       01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20  Ranks Tome Buffed
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Balance           2                                                             2.0    0   31.0
Bluff                                                                           0.0    0   23.0
Concentration                                                                   0.0    0   28.0
Diplomacy                                                                       0.0    0   27.0
Disable Device                                                                  0.0    0   28.0
Haggle                                                                          0.0    0   24.0
Heal                                                                            0.0    0   41.0
Hide                                                                            0.0    0   30.0
Intimidate                                                                      0.0    0   27.0
Jump                                                                            0.0    0   53.0
Listen                                                                          0.0    0   41.0
Move Silently                                                                   0.0    0   31.0
Open Lock                                                                       0.0    0   28.0
Perform                                                                         0.0    0   23.0
Repair                                                                          0.0    0   29.0
Search                                                                          0.0    0   32.0
Spellcraft                                                                      0.0    0   34.0
Spot                                                                            0.0    0   41.0
Swim                                                                            0.0    0   40.0
Tumble                                                                          0.0    0   29.0
Use Magic Device                                                                0.0    0   26.0
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Available Points 38 11  7  7  7  7  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  9  9  9  9  9  9
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Active Stances
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User: Precision
Arcane: Enchant Weapon
Divine: Ancient Blessings
Martial: Doublestrike
Primal: Ancient Power
Iconic: Aasimar Scourge
Metamagics: Quicken Spell
Major Form: Winter Wolf
Imbue: Power in Practice: Acid
Battle Trance: Clear Your Mind
Mantle: Grandmaster of Flowers Destiny Mantle
Monk Stance: Ocean Stance
Auto: Unarmed
Auto: Cloth Armor
Auto: Centered
Auto: Lawful
Auto: Empty
Auto: Shadar-Kai
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Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 18, Universal 2
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Shadar-Kai - Points spent: 18
Core1 Grit
Core2 Ability I: Wisdom
Tier1 Student of Pain - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Ghostly Essence - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Forceful Chain
Tier2 Guile I
Tier3 Improved Ghostly Essence - 2 Ranks
Tier3 Ghastly Chain
Tier3 Guile II
Tier3 Displacement
Tier4 Greater Spiked Chain Attack
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Dragon Disciple - Points spent: 14
Core1 Draconic Studies
Tier1 Power in Practice
Tier1 Draconic Devotion I
Tier1 Heart of the Dragon - 1 Ranks
Core2 Way of the Mighty Dragon I
Tier2 Discipleship I
Tier2 Power Begets Power
Tier2 Innate Arcana - 2 Ranks
Core3 Way of the Mighty Dragon II
Tier3 Clear Your Mind - 3 Ranks
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Nature's Warrior - Points spent: 33
Core1 Natural Adept
Tier1 Extra Wild Empathy: Extra Wild Empathy - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Bestial Nature - 1 Ranks
Core2 Nature's Senses
Tier2 Brother Wolf: Lone Wolf - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Flight: Flight - 3 Ranks
Core3 Nature's Bounty
Tier3 Fight - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Prey on the Weak - 2 Ranks
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Wisdom
Tier3 Essence of the Shrike - 1 Ranks
Tier4 Fatal Harrier - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Four Legs Good
Tier4 Ferocity - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Ability II: +1 Wisdom
Tier5 Go for the Kill
Tier5 Swift Hunter
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Shintao - Points spent: 1
Core1 Bastion of Purity
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Assassin - Points spent: 8
Core1 Knife in the Darkness
Tier1 Venomed Blades - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Shiv - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Toxin Affinity - 3 Ranks
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Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 26
Core1 Knife Expertise
Tier1 Mist Stalker I
Tier1 Rapid Attack
Tier2 Mist Stalker II
Tier2 Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
Core2 Knife Juggler
Tier2 Vistani Knife Training II
Core3 Quick Reflexes
Tier3 Mist Stalker III
Tier3 Deadly Blades
Tier3 Vistani Knife Training III
Core4 One With Blades
Tier4 Mist Stalker IV
Tier4 Celerity
Tier4 Double Daggers: Single Dagger
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Epic Destinies: 83 Destiny Points
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Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 21
Core1 Fearless
Tier1 Epic Tactics - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Shrug Off Punishment - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Extra Action Boost - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Esoteric Touch
Core2 Weaponmaster
Tier2 Honor or Backstab: Honor - 3 Ranks
Core3 Thick Skinned
Tier3 Strike Twice - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Armor of Dusk - 3 Ranks
Core4 Unparalleled Accuracy
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Grandmaster of Flowers - Points spent: 38
Core1 Inner Focus
Tier1 Serenity
Tier1 Disciple's Studies - 3 Ranks
Tier2 A Dance of Flowers
Core2 Disciple of Material: Adamantine
Tier2 Hail of Blows
Core3 Disciple of Morality: Good
Tier3 Serene Mercy - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Flow of Water - 3 Ranks
Tier3 The Flickering Flame - 3 Ranks
Core4 Disciple of Philosophy: Dark: Forbidden Philosophy
Tier4 The Clarity of Law - 3 Ranks
Tier4 The Cruelty of Evil - 3 Ranks
Tier4 The Delight of Chaos - 2 Ranks
Tier5 Beyond the Center - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Imposing Force
Tier5 Everything is Nothing
Tier5 Legendary Flurry of Blows - 2 Ranks
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Shadowdancer - Points spent: 24
Core1 The Darkest Luck I
Tier1 Cover of Darkness - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Stealthy - 1 Ranks
Tier2 Dance in the Dark - 3 Ranks
Core2 Step Through Shadows
Tier2 Epic Strike: Shadowstrike (Melee)
Tier2 Lithe - 1 Ranks
Core3 The Darkest Luck
Tier3 Shadowcaster: Shadowstriker
Tier3 Grim Precision - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Epic Strike Upgrade I: Paranoia
Tier4 Bring Darkness
Core4 Cut to the Soul
Tier4 Epic Strike Upgrade II: Improved Imbuement
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Reaper trees:
Dread Adversary - Points spent: 41
Core1 Reaper's Offense I
Tier1 Reaper's Blade I - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Reaper's Tactics I
Tier1 Reaper's Strength or Dexterity I: +1 Dexterity
Tier1 Reaper's Strike - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Reaper's Shot I - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Reaper's Blade II - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Reaper's Tactics II
Core2 Reaper's Offense II
Tier2 Reaper's Strength or Dexterity II: +1 Dexterity
Tier2 Reaper's Shot II - 3 Ranks
Core3 Reaper's Offense III: +1 Dexterity
Tier3 Reaper's Strength or Dexterity III: +1 Dexterity
Tier3 Reaper's Tactics III
Tier3 Reaper's Blade III - 3 Ranks
Core4 Reaper's Offense IV
Tier4 Reaper's Blade IV - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Reaper's Imbuement - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Reaper's Deadly Strikes - 3 Ranks
Core5 Reaper's Offense V
Tier5 Reaper's Strength or Dexterity IV: +1 Dexterity
Tier5 Reaper's Charge
Tier5 Reaper's Tactics IV
Tier5 Reaper's Blade V - 3 Ranks
Core6 Reaper's Offense VI
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Dire Thaumaturge - Points spent: 32
Core1 Reaper's Arcanum I
Tier1 Reaper's Arcana I - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Reaper's Power - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Reaper's Focus I
Tier1 Reapers's Ability I: +1 Wisdom
Core2 Reaper's Arcanum II
Tier2 Reaper's Focus II
Tier2 Reaper's Arcana II - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Reaper's Ability II: +1 Wisdom
Tier3 Reaper's Arcana III - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Reaper's Focus III
Core3 Reaper's Arcanum III: +1 Wisdom
Tier3 Reaper's Ability III: +1 Wisdom
Core4 Reaper's Arcanum IV
Tier4 Reaper's Arcana IV - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Reaper's Potency - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Reaper's Efficiency - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Reaper's Ability V: +1 Wisdom
Core5 Reaper's Arcanum V
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Grim Barricade - Points spent: 46
Core1 Reaper's Defense I
Tier1 Reaper's Reflex/Fortitude/Will I: Reflex Save - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Reaper's Luck - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Reaper's Constitution I
Tier1 Reaper's Evasion I - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Reaper's Bulwark/Shroud I: PRR - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Reaper's Constitution II
Tier2 Reaper's Reflex/Fortitude/Will II: Reflex Save - 3 Ranks
Core2 Reaper's Defense II
Tier2 Reaper's Evasion II - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Reaper's Bulwark/Shroud II: PRR - 3 Ranks
Core3 Reaper's Defense III
Tier3 Reaper's Reflex/Fortitude/Will III: Reflex Save - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Reaper's Constitution III
Tier3 Reaper's Evasion III - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Reaper's Bulwark/Shroud III: PRR - 3 Ranks
Core4 Reaper's Defense IV
Tier4 Reaper's Bulwark/Shroud IV: PRR - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Reaper's Resistance - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Reaper's Steadfastness - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Reaper's Heightened Evasion I
Core5 Reaper's Defense V
Tier5 Reaper's Bulwark/Shroud V: PRR - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Reaper's Reflex/Fortitude/Will V: Reflex Save - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Reaper's Charge
Tier5 Reaper's Constitution V
Tier5 Reaper's Heightened Evasion II
Core6 Reaper's Defense VI
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Druid Spells
LevelSpell NameSchoolCL/MCLDCAverage DamageCritical Damage
1Summon Nature's Ally IConjuration----
1JumpTransmutation----
1LongstriderTransmutation----
1Merfolk's BlessingTransmutation----
1Ram's MightTransmutation----
1Takedown----
2Summon Nature's Ally IIConjuration----
2Align FangTransmutation----
2Cure Light WoundsConjuration16/123767 - 84, Average 77134 - 169, Average 155
2Gust of WindEvocation-31--
2Lesser RestorationConjuration----
2Resist EnergyAbjuration----
3Summon Nature's Ally IIIConjuration----
3QuenchTransmutation-37--
3SnareTransmutation-37--
3VigorConjuration16/16-21 - 38, Average 3142 - 77, Average 63
3Water BreathingTransmutation----
4Summon Nature's Ally IVConjuration----
4Dispel MagicAbjuration-34--
4Flame StrikeEvocation16/2236288 - 529, Average 433577 - 1059, Average 866
4Ice StormEvocation16/22-64 - 384, Average 256128 - 768, Average 512
5Summon Nature's Ally VConjuration----
5Death WardTransmutation----
5Greater VigorConjuration16/19-21 - 46, Average 3542 - 92, Average 70
6Summon Nature's Ally VIConjuration----
7Summon Nature's Ally VIIConjuration----
8Summon Nature's Ally VIIIConjuration----
9Summon Nature's Ally IXConjuration----
Dragon Disciple Spells
LevelSpell NameSchoolCL/MCLDCAverage DamageCritical Damage
1Obscuring MistConjuration----
1ShieldAbjuration----
2BlurIllusion----
2Elemental WeaponsEvocation----
Spell Like / Special Abilities
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Call Wolf Companion
Dismiss Charm
Wild Empathy
Displacement
Dimension Door
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if you play this build or any other DDM build i am sorry. this build was super fun and i am so glad i didnt have to suffer another 1-20 of regular DDM. if you have any questions or comments id love to hear them
 
h46av8r

h46av8r

Well-known member
I completely disagree. I am really enjoying DDM. I did go a different route leveraging Chaosmancer and Wild Mage to be able to strip acid immunity (therefore having to gear only for one spell power/type) while maintaining caster level equal to character level, plus actually a couple more caster levels from Earth Savant. Sacred Fist levels for Ki Bolt. Super easy R1 leveling up to 34 then cruising through end game content soloing R4. Admittedly probably not the strongest build for folks trying to solo R10s but that was not the intent of the build. Does work best if you to have at least some extra racial AP. See the build at https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/wild-dragon-build.16960/
 
Last edited:
F

Flasko

Member
Been playing DDM for a bit now and pretty happy with it. Currently using chains and breaths to clear. I'm curious if anyone knows of a better weapon for chains than Axe of the unseen blow? I'm only level 21 right now without improved martial arts (another .5 [W] damage) here's a pic of the damage profile.
OpuEEUx.jpeg
 
Christhemiss

Christhemiss

Maker of Builds
Flasko said:
Been playing DDM for a bit now and pretty happy with it. Currently using chains and breaths to clear. I'm curious if anyone knows of a better weapon for chains than Axe of the unseen blow? I'm only level 21 right now without improved martial arts (another .5 [W] damage) here's a pic of the damage profile.
OpuEEUx.jpeg
Click to expand...
if you are only using handaxes, id recommend using an upgraded thunderholme one as it gets insane W. if you dont need just a handaxe, id recommend using a kukri or dagger and VKF. some ones to use: drow dagger, thunderforged kukri, the kukri from sentinels
 
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