U72 Early Look 2: Monk Revamp

[Garix]

As all the bits that once read "unarmed or handwraps" are changing to centred in the enhancements, what's happening with the lvls 4, 10 and 16 KI strike feats (Magic, lawful and adamantine respectively)? Are they changing to centred as well? Or will they remain unarmed/handwraps only?

 

[SpardaX]

I only seem to use KI shout in the hound only place I ever seem to tank but it's fun and hate to see it taken away

I might be the only weird monk, but I use Ki shout a lot at cap at r10 or below I get tired of chasing mobs and some groups I run with toons get killed when they cannot handle aggro much better letting a toon hold aggro than half the party dying.
if you're removing ki shout please replace it.

Im confused why you guys are saying Ki Shout is getting removed? It's getting moved, not removed?

Ki Shout is removed (moved to HM), and replaced with NEW: Fast Hands (Multiselector): +1/2/3% Doublestrike OR Doubleshot

So its just getting moved to Henshin Mystic.

 

[Amideus]

Personally I would like to see Unarmed Strike feat regain some of the bonus damage per feat gained again. Wraps need some love and if we're going to remove some of the active elemental attacks, we should give back some of the base damage that was taken away from wraps for pure monks.

Additionally, I would like to see some multiclass support for Sacred Fist and Cha to DCs for Kukan-Do and Stunning Fist.

 

[Havocthedemon1]

Personally I would like to see Unarmed Strike feat regain some of the bonus damage per feat gained again. Wraps need some love and if we're going to remove some of the active elemental attacks, we should give back some of the base damage that was taken away from wraps for pure monks.

Additionally, I would like to see some multiclass support for Sacred Fist and Cha to DCs for Kukan-Do and Stunning Fist.

They need to fix the missing +W they nerfed years ago. Devs - if you are reading this and were apart of that decision - you’re a fking idiot. Hand wraps are so far behind the other melee weapons it’s a joke.

 

[Shear-buckler]

They need to fix the missing +W they nerfed years ago. Devs - if you are reading this and were apart of that decision - you’re a fking idiot. Hand wraps are so far behind the other melee weapons it’s a joke.

The +W they nerfed was just moved onto the weapons. Get your whining straight.

 

[Amideus]

The +W they nerfed was just moved onto the weapons. Get your whining straight.

Why then do the handwraps have the same base W as other weapons for their tier? Seems like this is an incorrect statement from what I can see.
For instance Bone Wraps are 5.2W, other bone weapons are 5.2W.

It used to be that you could reach Great Axe levels of base dice for wraps under the old system. Now wraps are worse than handaxes.

Wraps just look massively nerfed today. Care to explain?

 

[Havocthedemon1]

Why then do the handwraps have the same base W as other weapons for their tier? Seems like this is an incorrect statement from what I can see.

Exactly - thank you. Kid has zero brain power and clearly doesn’t play monk. All weapons at the same tier have W. Monks used to have slowly increasing +W depending on level bc it’s impossible for them to get 15-20x5 like most melees at end game.

 

[Amideus]

Monks used to have slowly increasing +W depending on level bc it’s impossible for them to get 15-20x5 like most melees at end game.

Swords to Plowshares helps with this a little, but I think their crit profile is still the worst across all weapon types.

If my memory serves, playing monk as my primary class and almost exclusively the only build I ever play being handwraps, the two big things holding back Monk were the lack of a haste AB and the weaker crit profile. They made up for the latter with high base damage (1d12 fists) and their naturally stronger attack string.

When wraps were converted to weapons and all damage was rolled into the W[1dX] system, the old scaling base dice had to go away because they couldn't code the weapons to just change base dice like that. So instead we got increasing .5W bonuses on monk feats and gear. I think it was one of the raids introduced a pair of wraps that were slightly higher base dice than normal, and that caused a large uptick in the monk population at the time. This is what triggered the removal of the dice from fists but at the time many monk players heavily disagreed with the kneejerk reaction to increased wraps power.

Ultimately it's very sad that an iconic barbarian is a better handwraps user than the actual class that pioneered it. I really hope this rework addresses the fact that when people ask for a handwraps build, instead of getting a monk or SF response, they get a Razorclaw build.

 

[Celtic]

Personally I would like to see Unarmed Strike feat regain some of the bonus damage per feat gained again. Wraps need some love and if we're going to remove some of the active elemental attacks, we should give back some of the base damage that was taken away from wraps for pure monks.

Additionally, I would like to see some multiclass support for Sacred Fist and Cha to DCs for Kukan-Do and Stunning Fist.

The elemental attacks are still there in a sense in that elemental words in Henshin now does similar damage i.e. 2d20 at grandmaster level and gives you all 4 elemental attacks.

 

[Phaedra]

The +W they nerfed was just moved onto the weapons. Get your whining straight.

You're right, they need to fix the base die step increase they nerfed when MotU came out, then they can leave the +W on the wraps.

It used to be that you could reach Great Axe levels of base dice for wraps under the old system. Now wraps are worse than handaxes.

Base die at 20 with active PL: Monk was 2d12, with (epic)Jidz tet'ka it was 2d20, I think. Unless that was after they started using made-up dice and it was 2d14

 

[Phoenicis]

The way it originally worked: Monks got unarmed damage dice that increased as they leveled (1d6, 1d8, 1d12 if memory serves). Handwraps only applied on hit effects and were not coded as weapons.
It changed to: Handwraps were made weapons but monks still got an inherent +w as they leveled that stacked with the +w handwraps (only) got.
What happened: an endgame set of handwraps was released that had a higher based damage die that, when stacked with all the +w the monk class got was deemed to powerful.
Result: Monk inherent +w removed, bringing the one set of wraps back in line and leaving every other set of wraps useless (mostly).

 

[songswrath]

The way it originally worked: Monks got unarmed damage dice that increased as they leveled (1d6, 1d8, 1d12 if memory serves). Handwraps only applied on hit effects and were not coded as weapons.
It changed to: Handwraps were made weapons but monks still got an inherent +w as they leveled that stacked with the +w handwraps (only) got.
What happened: an endgame set of handwraps was released that had a higher based damage die that, when stacked with all the +w the monk class got was deemed to powerful.
Result: Monk inherent +w removed, bringing the one set of wraps back in line and leaving every other set of wraps useless (mostly).

Yep one set of riad wraps was doing dlb the damage vs all other wraps. I for get the name of them but sure someone will chime in with it.

 

[Havocthedemon1]

Yep one set of riad wraps was doing dlb the damage vs all other wraps. I for get the name of them but sure someone will chime in with it.

It was Duality - instead of just fixing the problem they nerfed both the outlier by setting the damage of those wraps lower AND took away the only DPS monks got.

Also what the other guy said about razor claw is so true and that build is mostly fighter anyway - raging fighter is a better wraps user than a legitimate hand wraps monk. Absolutely disgusting.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

This. 8)

 

[Phoenicis]

It was Duality - instead of just fixing the problem they nerfed both the outlier by setting the damage of those wraps lower AND took away the only DPS monks got.

Also what the other guy said about razor claw is so true and that build is mostly fighter anyway - raging fighter is a better wraps user than a legitimate hand wraps monk. Absolutely disgusting.

They whacked Duality's damage too? (never got a set, didn't endgame raid at the time) Wasn't aware of that.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

They whacked Duality's damage too? (never got a set, didn't endgame raid at the time) Wasn't aware of that.

Yea, Duality was 7(1d6+3), and with Monk additional (W) dice was just annihilate all around. I think i see R10 Baba solo raid or like with Monk +Duality, and soon after devs kill all handwraps totally. 8)

 

[Havocthedemon1]

Yea, Duality was 7(1d6+3), and with Monk additional (W) dice was just annihilate all around. I think i see R10 Baba solo raid or like with Monk +Duality, and soon after devs kill all handwraps totally. 8)

While I find it hard to believe that actually happened - the devs clearly overcorrected into oblivion and never once in the history of this game have they ever looked at one of their stupid decisions and revisited their logic by looking at current game state.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

While I find it hard to believe that actually happened - the devs clearly overcorrected into oblivion and never once in the history of this game have they ever looked at one of their stupid decisions and revisited their logic by looking at current game state.

It was r10 Lshroud duo really, but it's not principal i think. 8)

 

[Havocthedemon1]

It was r10 Lshroud duo really, but it's not principal i think. 8)

Well I can’t really offer my opinion on this - I hate raids in general and have done shroud exactly once and I’ve been playing since 09-10. I’m guessing both were not monks - and the toon could probably have been replaced with more than half a dozen other builds just as well. I’m guessing it took like 12 hours from first attempt.

Plenty of “true” solo feats have been accomplished in raids since then and none of them have been monk (let alone best/easiest to do it with).

 

[Phoenicis]

Well I can’t really offer my opinion on this - I hate raids in general and have done shroud exactly once and I’ve been playing since 09-10. I’m guessing both were not monks - and the toon could probably have been replaced with more than half a dozen other builds just as well. I’m guessing it took like 12 hours from first attempt.

Plenty of “true” solo feats have been accomplished in raids since then and none of them have been monk (let alone best/easiest to do it with).

Soloing the twilight forge requires five levels of monk if memory serves for the self raise.