U72 Early Look 2: Monk Revamp

[ACJ97F]

Changes from the previous thread:​

... there is no cost (feat slots, action points) in gaining them - Monks get these and their trees and their bonus feats.

Of course there's a cost, combat time, timing, and KI. Not every monk uses them, but removing class features isn't a pass, it's a straight nerf.
You may as well just say "we noticed SLA's use casters free Metamagic feats at no additional cost", if you're just fabricating reasons as usual.

Changes from the Base Monk Class:

• Abundant Step (lv. 12) is replaced with a Feat version of Flight of Kings: Memories of flight lie within you. You are able to leap through the air to bring the fight to your enemies or traverse chasms that make normal adventure balk. Cooldown: 15 seconds. When you use Flight of Kings, you have a +20% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 6 seconds.
  • (This is likely, to some degree, not as strong as the base Monk version. This is intended.)

Monks (and others effected by your "tweaks") already have minimal reasons to stick around. Drawing a line through another one?

 

[Lotoc]

Of course there's a cost, combat time, timing, and KI. Not every monk uses them, but removing class features isn't a pass, it's a straight nerf.
You may as well just say "we noticed SLA's use casters free Metamagic feats at no additional cost", if you're just fabricating reasons as usual.



Monks (and others effected by your "tweaks") already have minimal reasons to stick around. Drawing a line through another one?

that's about the archetype not getting abundant step, not removing it from base monk.

 

[Lotoc]

I think with the active attacks no longer being part of being part of building towards Finishing Moves and with the potential of constantly spamming actives gone due to no more elemental strikes Ki is going to be in a weird place.
I'd say if removing the finishers is set in stone the active attacks that cost Ki could do with a bump up in damage/scaling because ultimately they A: Require being centered which typically means using weaker weapons and B: Have a cost besides a cooldown.
Right now a lot of their power budget is in part of building towards a finisher and with that gone the active attacks should really feel more impactful in of themselves.

Additionally, GMoF's drifting lotus could probably do with a lower cooldown, right now it is kind of inferior to Quick Cutter despite the extra requirements and it'd help with the excess Ki that's likely to emerge with the changes.

 

[Nickodeamous]

Which of the finishers missing do you love the most?

Aside from the builder aspect, what else is missing that you love about monk?

It's not just the builder. I do EEE and FDF regularly. But, I also use the elemental strikes regularly...and now its gated in HM...I also use the buffs regularly. I also use the healing finishers to heal myself and the party. I also use the curse removal and other party benefits.

Basically, my whole entire cadence of playing a monk is disrupted without the finishers. Even if they get disrupted from opening a door, at least I got EEE and that's mega damage above just auto attack. You can't just remove 75% of the attacks/buffs and be in the same place be shifting a few of the auto-grants into enhancements.

Monks are fun. They are challenging. people that are new may not like them as they are quite complex. But if you put in the time and effort, it is so rewarding. nothing in this game is quite like it...and I do play many different builds on my alts.

I don't know...I'm just feeling really terrible about this.

 

[ACJ97F]

that's about the archetype not getting abundant step, not removing it from base monk.

We're hoping so, but SSG has a track record of changing or removing class features. Monk's already been a victim of that.

 

[pame12]

Please just add a feat or capstone enhancement to reduce abundant step cooldown by 1 sec! I've been praying for this moment for years!

 

[J1NG]

Please just add a feat or capstone enhancement to reduce abundant step cooldown by 1 sec! I've been praying for this moment for years!

The minimal cooldown is what all the leaps are now or greater. So this will never happen.

J1NG

 

[mikarddo]

I tried using the unique monk stuff once and hated it.

But that certainly does not mean that I think removing it and making monks far less unique is a good idea. So, from someone who hated using finishers etc on monks - please do not remove them! Having noticeable different options is good for the game even when someone of them are not to my liking.

 

[droid327]

OK dumb question...what is Self Defense? I'm not seeing it listed in any tree and its not coming up in a Google search

 

[5 Other People]

It's not just the builder. I do EEE and FDF regularly. But, I also use the elemental strikes regularly...and not its gated in HM...I also use the buffs regularly. I also use the healing finishers to heal myself and the party. I also use the curse removal and other party benefits.

Basically, my whole entire cadence of playing a monk is disrupted without the finishers. Even if they get disrupted from opening a door, at least I got EEE and that's mega damage above just auto attack. You can't just remove 75% of the attacks/buffs and be in the same place be shifting a few of the auto-grants into enhancements.

I wonder if monks could get finishers in the way sorcs learn spells? Or rather, they could be part of extra feats that monks select at level-up time and and certain levels you could pick from a list of finishers. Thematically it's kinda fun too pick up finishers at level up time.

My guess is we are looking for balance and with the positive changes to DPS, also giving all the finishers may be to over-powered, but maybe if player could select a handful of finisher favorites from the full list, the power balance would work out & players could still choose to add their favorites back in as a sort of homage to the old days.

 

[5 Other People]

OK dumb question...what is Self Defense? I'm not seeing it listed in any tree and its not coming up in a Google search

Tier 5 of Ninja Spy.

 

[Nickodeamous]

I wonder if monks could get finishers in the way sorcs learn spells? Or rather, they could be part of extra feats that monks select at level-up time and and certain levels you could pick from a list of finishers. Thematically it's kinda fun too pick up finishers at level up time.

That is a fantastic idea!! So, every 3 levels or every 4 levels, you get to select a strike or a finisher you would like to add to your repertoire.

Devs, look at this one.

 

[Putti]

I like the changes, but I'll just ask once again that you reconsider the removal of Fist of Light!

Even if it isn't a builder anymore it still serves a purpose.

 

[Lotoc]

I think it may be worth leaving Elemental Ki Strikes in each tree and incorporating some of the missing finisher effects into them.
Right now if you get one you kind of only take that one and that's because of how tight enhancement points can be currently with going into falconry and how restrictive action economy is with needing to use specific elements for finishers.
With the finisher system gone, baseline ki attacks gone and Henshin giving stuff typically taken through falconry it makes room to take and use multiple of these strikes.

 

[Wisefreelancer]

Are there now two different tier 5 abilities in HM that grant 25% HP? The new crit mods one and the existing Self Defense?

 

[peng]

please bring back the finishers, but make them 2 strikes instead of 3

 

[Wisefreelancer]

I think it may be worth leaving Elemental Ki Strikes in each tree and incorporating some of the missing finisher effects into them.
Right now if you get one you kind of only take that one and that's because of how tight enhancement points can be currently with going into falconry and how restrictive action economy is with needing to use specific elements for finishers.
With the finisher system gone, baseline ki attacks gone and Henshin giving stuff typically taken through falconry it makes room to take and use multiple of these strikes.

Are you going into Falconry anymore though? With the Wis trance and other enhancements there is clearly a push away from that splash

 

[Fisto Mk I]

NiS tree still lack ranged attacks and Dex trance.

Ninja Spy Dark Path: Shadow Flurry must have melee/ranged/DD caster multiselector, same as Touch of Death. Without it Light Path (worked for whole melee/ranged/DD) much more appealing and no-brain choice for ranged builds.

 

[Lotoc]

Are you going into Falconry anymore though? With the Wis trance and other enhancements there is clearly a push away from that splash

that's what I'm saying, if monk is moving away from requiring falconry then it makes room to pick up multiple of these active attacks in the monk trees.

 

[Summoner]

See you did not change the imbue dice scaling so i am gonna mention it again.
The imbue dice scaling in both ninja spy and henshin is not that good.
The ninja poison. I like the idea behind this that ninjas use poison but 1d6 scaling with 100% melee power is low.

For henshin it is 1d6+1d6 on crits both scaling with 100% melee power. Dragonlords and both paladins types get 1d6 scaling with 200% melee power.

an example with 200 melee power and 6 crit range:
1d6*(2*200+100)/100=5*1d6 for dragonlord and paladins
1d6*(200+100)/100+1d6*6/20*(200+100)/100=3.9*1d6 for henshin
so 80% of dragonlord and paladins.

an example with 400 melee power and 6 crit range:
1d6*(2*400+100)/100=9*1d6 for dragonlord and paladins
1d6*(400+100)/100+1d6*6/20*(400+100)/100=6.5*1d6
so 72% of dragonlords and paladins.