U72 Early Look 2: Monk Revamp

[Fisto Mk I]

Self Defense is now a multiselector with Improved Archer's Focus: Your Archer's Focus stance can now stack up to 25 times instead of 15. Passive: +10 Ranged Power.

Don't do it. Just put Improved Archer Focus and 10 RP instead DoA Crippling Strike. Or do Crippling Strike multiselektor with IAF.

Have Wind stance attack speed bonuses apply to ranged as well as melee

Wind stance provide throwing speed bonuses, it's ok. If add ranged it must be splendid! 8)

Flash Bang: not sure why this has become locked to Light Path

^^^
This.
It's very strange decision. Technically "flash" tied with "light", yea... but whole tree more about be sneaky, it seems more "dark" for me.

Shadow Double: I like that this works with ranged now, but why the cooldown increase?

Because it's ranged now. Seems good for me. 8)

Ranged attacks should generate Ki like melee attacks, and many or even all of the monk strikes should work with ranged

^^^^^^^
This again.

Ki Bolt should be 1d6+2 fire and force per monk level, scaling with 2x melee/ranged power

No tnx, 300% MP/RP scaling seems better for me.

Incinerating Wave should be 1d6+4 fire and force per monk level, scaling with 2x melee/ranged power

Same as above, no tnx.

 

[saekee]

If Ninja Spy's helpless damage could be made 1 point per tier that would be ace <3

at a minimum; seems like sloppy oversight that this is 2AP. I find it frustrating we even need to point this out, and are like beggars showing excessive gratitude should it be granted.

Steelstar thx for engaging us, apologies for my frustration and what will probably continue as such

 

[5 Other People]

apologies for my frustration and what will probably continue as such

Seems like most of us should be begging for this release to be pushed out for a few weeks to give folks more time to adjust...for sure as it's written I have little motivation to re-roll as a monk.

I'm very scared about what will happen to rouge when it gets a revamp. the march to homogenize the code base continues.

 

[Tianblade]

At 3rd level when picking Philosophies, if you pick light, just have it give a toggled feat, that gains the Healing shield ability to every hit, scale it down, and have it stack on a mob. Have stacks slowly be removed over time, so the monk has to stay on the mob. This means the healing given to the monk and others, increases the longer the monk attacks the mob (so more healing against bosses and high reaper mobs). While only giving a low amount in normal combat. Keep the other healing things in the enhancement trees.

Have something along these lines that fit the dark side, like maybe apply a curse or something.

​

 

[Subfive]

First I like most of the changes proposed, a bit sad to see the combo gone but with how cluncky and easily breakable by simple stuff like looting a chest/collectable I completely understand the new approach.

There is still a few things I would personally like to see:

• I would really like to see the healing shield on enemy come back somewhere.
• elemental words, Touch of Death and Dark Path: Shadow Flurry should really work with ranged attacks too.(would be great if all the active attacks could have a ranged conterpart for shuriken build/at least one of the tree)
• Shadow Flurry cost of 20 HP in addition to the KI each hit seems a bit of a high cost for what the attack gives, HP loss on ability usage should really be for special case in my opinion.
• Ki regen with ranged attack (might be limited to only when in wind stance / all the other have their "speciality" earth = being hit, fire = crit, water = passive)

in ninja spy tier 4, for the dark path: posion exploit, it's still on a touch of despair(which is no longer given with the feat like the healing shield) so does that mean it now is an attack or just that with the normal expiration of stacks the damage will be done or an upgrade to shadow flurry? there is no real way to forcefully remove the stack on a mob now?

 

[saekee]

Devs just because not everyone liked the old combo system means trash it fyi. Not everyone likes=homogenization pleasing everyone => uniqueness dies in a game.

Not everyone likes stealthplay; not everyone likes zerging; not everyone likes raids etc etc. It is clunky to drop into stealth for assassinate for example so we just run up and assassinate like quiverimg palm, balanced now on cooldown and target #s?

 

[Uncle Gus]

Not everyone likes stealthplay; not everyone likes zerging; not everyone likes raids etc etc

But nobody doesn't like Sara Lee..............

 

[Urklore]

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[Putti]

Since the Shintao cores are being reworked to function with all centered weapons could you possible do the same for the auto-granted Ki Strike feats?

Namely:
Ki Strike: Magic (Level 4)
Ki Strike: Lawful (Level 10)
Ki Strike: Adamantine (Level 16)

 

[pame12]

At 3rd level when picking Philosophies, if you pick light, just have it give a toggled feat, that gains the Healing shield ability to every hit, scale it down, and have it stack on a mob. Have stacks slowly be removed over time, so the monk has to stay on the mob. This means the healing given to the monk and others, increases the longer the monk attacks the mob (so more healing against bosses and high reaper mobs). While only giving a low amount in normal combat. Keep the other healing things in the enhancement trees.

Have something along these lines that fit the dark side, like maybe apply a curse or something.

​

This.
And for dark path, give it like a toggle that applies a debuff onto an enemy, gives it extra vulnerability to poison and if it dies it gives +temp hp to person that killed it. Something like monk lvl + wis modifier + 2% of max hp as temp hp. Lasts 1 minute.

 

[Mindos]

Wonder how quick this will go from "this is a very early preview, nothing is set in stone" to "sorry too late/too big to make changes, everything is locked in now"

 

[Xeang]

Pros and Cons of the Monk Pass -- Removal of the Builders to Finishers

Buffs
Some finishers still available and now a quicker single click
Monk becomes more user friendly
Combinations of buffs in a single click

Nerfs
Loss of most strike builders & finishers
Costs enhancement points & reduces tree design opportunities
Loss of complexity challenge & fun (for some)
Lends itself to homogeneity of the classes
Reduces diversity of play and playstyle

Suggestion: While some pointed out to move from 3 to 2 clicks to attain a finisher which would resolve most of the nerf situation I believe that is what the Devs fear will overpower the monk at all levels. Assuming therefore they wish to stay with a complete removal, I would like to see what many others have now lent their voice to in this column:

Make a List of the Monk Strikes Available for Choice Gated by Levels and Power

I would think a monk could choose 1 builder and 1 finisher at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18,

The lists available could be gated at 1, 6, 12, 18 as when one receives new stance improvements.

The lists would correspond to the chosen philosphy Light or Dark and monks would receive at level 3 as they do now the Fist of Light strike (with healing shield) or the Touch of Despair strike (with debuff). These would work as single strikes and not function as builders. Those would still need to be chosen from the list.

So for example

Level 1 Builders
Strike of Enduring I
Storm Strike I
Fires of Purity I
Flowing Waters I

Level 1 Finishers
Trembling Earth
Gathering Storm
Raging Sea
Breath of the Fire Dragon

So a light monk could at level 1 choose Strike of Enduring (or 1 of the others) and would receive the finisher Trembling Earth.
If they chose instead Storm Strike they would receive the matching finisher as an available clicky Gathering Storm
They would have to wait until 6, 9,12, etc. to choose other elemental strikes with their corresponding finishers (receiving 1 elemental builder and 1 finisher as a total of 2 more clickies) at that level.

Level 3
This is a unique level because the monk chooses his philosophy here.
*At level 3 they Fist of Light or Touch of Despair is granted as the singular Builder and the corresponding Finisher whether or light or dark:
Healing Ki (Level 3+ Light)
Touch of Despair (Level 3+ Dark)

By level 12 all 4 elemental strikes would be chose. But the list of Finishers is grander and not all will be able to be chosen even by 20, thus limiting the monk player to what flavor and design they think best. That list will include all the other elemental finishers not yet chosen as well as the elemental - philsophy (light or dark) - elemental finishers. So whether dark or light the monk will have 5 finisher choices left after level 3 out of a list of 10 choices -- if you make Shining Star available on that list as well.


Conclusion: Though finishers will move to efficient single click moments -- and while all are available -- it is limited in by choice (a little more than 1/2 the finishers can be selected). This will lead to diversity and creativity playstyle. No monk can complain that if they really wanted something they couldn't get it. Also it is gated by levels -- you don't have almost all of them at level 3. Rather just and handful parsed out every 3 levels. This should help maintain the balance that the Devs and us are seeking in remaking the monk trees. Finally they still cost ki (which could be increased from current cost to nerf them more).

But flexibility, creativity, diversity of builds is maintained. I have not seen any monk overpowered by these abilities in the current meta, and here they are being reduced in this pass. This way I think is balanced to avoid significant reduction of power and choice, improves the current clunkiness of monk clickies, provides more space for creative tree enhancements and improves the monk experience.

 

[Nickodeamous]

Pros and Cons of the Monk Pass -- Removal of the Builders to Finishers

Buffs
Some finishers still available and now a quicker single click
Monk becomes more user friendly
Combinations of buffs in a single click

Nerfs
Loss of most strike builders & finishers
Costs enhancement points & reduces tree design opportunities
Loss of complexity challenge & fun (for some)
Lends itself to homogeneity of the classes
Reduces diversity of play and playstyle

Suggestion: While some pointed out to move from 3 to 2 clicks to attain a finisher which would resolve most of the nerf situation I believe that is what the Devs fear will overpower the monk at all levels. Assuming therefore they wish to stay with a complete removal, I would like to see what many others have now lent their voice to in this column:

Make a List of the Monk Strikes Available for Choice Gated by Levels and Power

I would think a monk could choose 1 builder and 1 finisher at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18,

The lists available could be gated at 1, 6, 12, 18 as when one receives new stance improvements.

The lists would correspond to the chosen philosphy Light or Dark and monks would receive at level 3 as they do now the Fist of Light strike (with healing shield) or the Touch of Despair strike (with debuff). These would work as single strikes and not function as builders. Those would still need to be chosen from the list.

So for example

Level 1 Builders
Strike of Enduring I
Storm Strike I
Fires of Purity I
Flowing Waters I

Level 1 Finishers
Trembling Earth
Gathering Storm
Raging Sea
Breath of the Fire Dragon

So a light monk could at level 1 choose Strike of Enduring (or 1 of the others) and would receive the finisher Trembling Earth.
If they chose instead Storm Strike they would receive the matching finisher as an available clicky Gathering Storm
They would have to wait until 6, 9,12, etc. to choose other elemental strikes with their corresponding finishers (receiving 1 elemental builder and 1 finisher as a total of 2 more clickies) at that level.

Level 3
This is a unique level because the monk chooses his philosophy here.
*At level 3 they Fist of Light or Touch of Despair is granted as the singular Builder and the corresponding Finisher whether or light or dark:
Healing Ki (Level 3+ Light)
Touch of Despair (Level 3+ Dark)

By level 12 all 4 elemental strikes would be chose. But the list of Finishers is grander and not all will be able to be chosen even by 20, thus limiting the monk player to what flavor and design they think best. That list will include all the other elemental finishers not yet chosen as well as the elemental - philsophy (light or dark) - elemental finishers. So whether dark or light the monk will have 5 finisher choices left after level 3 out of a list of 10 choices -- if you make Shining Star available on that list as well.


Conclusion: Though finishers will move to efficient single click moments -- and while all are available -- it is limited in by choice (a little more than 1/2 the finishers can be selected). This will lead to diversity and creativity playstyle. No monk can complain that if they really wanted something they couldn't get it. Also it is gated by levels -- you don't have almost all of them at level 3. Rather just and handful parsed out every 3 levels. This should help maintain the balance that the Devs and us are seeking in remaking the monk trees. Finally they still cost ki (which could be increased from current cost to nerf them more).

But flexibility, creativity, diversity of builds is maintained. I have not seen any monk overpowered by these abilities in the current meta, and here they are being reduced in this pass. This way I think is balanced to avoid significant reduction of power and choice, improves the current clunkiness of monk clickies, provides more space for creative tree enhancements and improves the monk experience.

This is extremely well thought out. This would solve a ton of issues monks players like me have with this pass. We need to stop taking things away and pushing monks further into the dirt. Some see it as simplicity, other see it as a class killer.

with exception of leveling a thrower and a tank, monks are already not even close to being tops in heroics. I can name 10+ classes that blitz through heroics like its nothing and are FAR superior levelers. The point is that heroics are a means to an end for alot of players. We just get through them as efficiently as possible. Nobody cares who is more powerful in heroics. Nobody is like, hey, you got 75% of the kills...boo hoo. (well, some do).

I really like this idea...Devs, please take a look, and don't kill off this playstyle.

 

[pame12]

Please do something about empty body, it sucks and I can't see anything!

 

[pame12]

Also, I'm suprised there's no at least +1 to tumble charges for ninja? Could we get one of those somewhere?

 

[saekee]

Other changes I think should be made in addition/instead:

• Ranged attacks should generate Ki like melee attacks, and many or even all of the monk strikes should work with ranged
• Damaging/healing SLAs: I believe these should all have higher dmg/healing dice and scale with 2x melee/ranged power instead of spellpower or 3x melee power.
  • Hand of Healing (or Healing Ki) should be 1d6 or 1d6+1 per monk level, scaling with 2x melee/ranged power
  • Ki Bolt should be 1d6+2 fire and force per monk level, scaling with 2x melee/ranged power
  • Incinerating Wave should be 1d6+4 fire and force per monk level, scaling with 2x melee/ranged power
  • Fire Finisher (if we get it) should be 1d6+3 fire dmg per monk level, scaling with 2x melee/ranged power
• Monks should get more MRR cap and PRR. Maybe 1 MRR cap and PRR per monk level.
• Allow the BAB increase from Flurry of Blows to apply for feat pre-requisites
• Meditation and Wholeness of Body give way too little and take way too long. Maybe change them to something like:
  • Meditation: A monk can meditate to rapidly regain ki. You gain ki equal to 1/4 of your Concentration every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. You can still move while meditating, but do so at a reduced speed unless you have the mobility feat. Other actions will interrupt your meditation. 1 minute cooldown.
  • Wholeness of Body: This feat allows Monks to expend 10 Ki to heal some hit points over time in a meditative state. You regain hit points equal to twice Monk level + Epic/Legendary levels + Wisdom modifier every two seconds for 8 seconds. This scales with the higher of Positive or twice Melee Power. You can still move while meditating, but do so at a reduced speed unless you have the mobility feat. Other actions will interrupt your meditation. 1 minute cooldown.
• Empty Body and Perfect Self are pretty underwhelming for lvl 19/20 abilities.
  • Empty Body: add Dark Discorporation on top of Shadow Walk.
  • Perfect Self: add +1 passive ki gen and/or some more PRR and/or MRR.
• Stances: They could use a bit of a rework. Currently Mountain is a tank stance which barely increases your prr and threat gen. Wind is a DPS stance at all levels (assuming you're melee and not doublestrike capped). Sun is a DPS stance starting at lvl 12. All the stances except wind have a way to generate Ki, but other than Sun, they are either unreliable or start at lvl 12. So:
  • Mountain
    • +1/1/2/2 Ki on being hit or missed
    • +5/10/15/20 PRR
    • +50/100/150/200% threat gen
  • Wind
    • 3/6/9/12% Doublestrike and Doubleshot
    • Ki abilities cost 20/30/40/50% less
    • +4/6/8/10% stacking run speed (could be untyped, quality, action boost, etc)
  • Sun
    • +1/1/2/2 Ki on hit (no extra Ki on crits needed)
    • either +1/1/2/2 crit multiplier on 19-20 OR +0.25/0.5/0.75/1 [W]
  • Ocean
    • +1/1/2/2 passive Ki generation
    • +3/6/9/12 MRR and MRR cap

some good ideas—but please do not mess with ki bolt. The ki bolt builds are niche and fun, not OP.
I think they will have ocean dodge cap (as on live) and wind MRR cap (as per a comment from Steel).

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Suggestion: While some pointed out to move from 3 to 2 clicks to attain a finisher which would resolve most of the nerf situation I believe that is what the Devs fear will overpower the monk at all levels.

I know many people in this game believe the devs are clueless, but I actually don't. There's no way they fear 2 button finishers would be overpowered in this game with the current state of shifters, shadarkai, barbarians, dragonlords, inquisitives, hell even nerfed casters and just about everything. 3 or 4 button combos to execute single target soft cc or minor buffs has always been in the realm of fun/flavour, not a source of power for monks. Finishers have been a constant since they were released and stayed that way in times when monks were both overpowered and underpowered.

Other than that, I agree with your proposal, its far better than nothing.

 

[J1NG]

Wondering what's going to happen when another Monk Tree or Archetype is added. Are we only going to get another "reset" and everything gets shuffled around again?

J1NG

 

[G.W.]

SSG should be animating the appropriate combat animations for each weapon, piercing weapons should be animated completely differently from slashing weapons, especially the quarterstaffs that are "spears" and deal piercing damage.

I know your sarcastic, but that would be nice. Most of the weapon animations are just "wave in the general direction of the enemy". Even some basics like "stab 'em with the pointy end" would be good.

 

[droid327]

I know your sarcastic, but that would be nice. Most of the weapon animations are just "wave in the general direction of the enemy". Even some basics like "stab 'em with the pointy end" would be good.

From what we know about how animations work and how skills are hooked to various points in the animation, this would likely multiply the workload involved with developing new skills significantly - and increase the chance of bugs arising associated with certain animations