U72 Early Look: Monk Revamp

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Thal

Thal

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J1NG said:
So not only are all Finishers now placed into Trees, but you are also gated by Action Points AND your chosen Path (You can't pick one over the other).

Whilst now on live, we can use "attack" Finishers after "buffing" (a 0 Spell Point cost Mass Blur), in this new proposed one, we are being told that in 12 seconds (and this is only for the "short" cooldown ones), you will only be able to use three (3) such Finishers and you will be limited by investing over 33 Action Points in three different tree's before you can even do so. PLUS, you will only be able to buff OR attack, not both/mix.

Plus, if you whiff your move, you need to wait another 12 seconds before you can try again, when right now, you just rebuild or use a different Finisher in the mean time to attempt any CC.

Are we getting caster trees updated next where we gate majority if not all types of spells next? Can only mass heal in Beacon or Radiant?

Not feeling the change on the Finisher front.

J1NG
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Just make Healing Ki and Touch of Despair clickies because we all agree having to wait 9 seconds plus a little for those is rough in the current zoom enriched meta-game, but keep the others. Healing Ki being a click that is instead modified based on what you pick in the Enhancement Tree of choice is way more engaging.

Shintao makes Healing Ki more cleanse-like with heals
Henshin makes Healing Ki about defensive boosts and auras
Ninja makes Healing Ki about offensive short term damage bonuses

And do the same for Touch of Despair. But why remove Finishers? Why make less content in your game? Even if they got nerfed into mediocrity, at least keep them for the theme and history of the class.
 
Nickodeamous

Nickodeamous

Well-known member
J1NG said:
So not only are all Finishers now placed into Trees, but you are also gated by Action Points AND your chosen Path (You can't pick one over the other).

Whilst now on live, we can use "attack" Finishers after "buffing" (a 0 Spell Point cost Mass Blur), in this new proposed one, we are being told that in 12 seconds (and this is only for the "short" cooldown ones), you will only be able to use three (3) such Finishers and you will be limited by investing over 33 Action Points in three different tree's before you can even do so. PLUS, you will only be able to buff OR attack, not both/mix.

Plus, if you whiff your move, you need to wait another 12 seconds before you can try again, when right now, you just rebuild or use a different Finisher in the mean time to attempt any CC.

Are we getting caster trees updated next where we gate majority if not all types of spells next? Can only mass heal in Beacon or Radiant?

Not feeling the change on the Finisher front.

J1NG
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I slept on these changes last night and as a veteran at playing monk, I am not happy with losing the combos. Some may say, "oh yeah, no more mashing buttons, yay", but this is not the point. This is a MASSIVE nerf to monks that used any finishing moves. Like you say, its all hidden in different trees and gated by enhancement points. Newer monk players will love this, but most monk vets do not.

for those that aren't 100% aware of what the finishing moves actually do, here is a listing. I count 17 finishing moves, with a MAJORITY being removed. Not only that, the strikes that give 10% damage boost + actual damage, + elemental damage are all being spread out/eliminated, so nobody that's a monk can have it all.

@SteelStar we absolutely need to keep the finishers as part of the monk as well as the strikes themselves. this will gut the monk. I implore you to look at what this change will do, and how it will affect us very loyal monk players. The buffs in the tree are but a fraction back of what is being lost. Nowhere do I see where we get auto-crits, or crit multipliers like you get with EEE, or FDF.

Please look at this list below and find a way to keep it.

Elemental Finishers​

  • The Trembling Earth
    • Sequence: Earth - Earth - Earth
    • 10 Ki.
    • The attack has +2 critical multiplier, and the victim is unable to cast spells for 60 seconds.
    • Fortitude save negates.
  • The Gathering Storm
    • Sequence: Air - Air - Air
    • 10 Ki.
    • The target's ability to Hit is reduced by 15% for 1 minute.
    • Undead appear to be immune. Fortitude save negates.
  • The Raging Sea
    • Sequence: Water - Water - Water
    • 10 Ki.
    • The enemy's attacks are slowed by 15% for 1 minute.
    • Fortitude save negates.
  • Breath of the Fire Dragon
    • Sequence: Fire - Fire - Fire
    • 10 Ki.
    • A cone of searing flame shoots forth, damaging targets in the area of the flames for 1d6 damage per Monk level.
    • A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier) reduces the damage by half.
    • This move, which mimics Burning Hands, is very useful when attempting to open damageable doors that require more Strength than the monk has at hand (even in Fire Stance).
    • Scales with 200% Melee Power

Path of Harmonious Balance Finishers​

  • Healing Ki
    • Sequence: Light - Light - Light
    • 10 Ki.
    • You heal all nearby allies for 1d4 plus 1d4 per monk level.
    • Does not harm undead foes.
    • Healing Ki is increased by 100% positive spellpower.
    • Healing Ki affects any allied player, including NPCs.
  • Grasp the Earth Dragon
    • Sequence: Earth - Light - Earth
    • 10 Ki.
    • Nearby allies become immune to daze, stun, and sleep for 60 seconds.
  • Dance of Clouds
    • Sequence: Air - Light - Air
    • 10 Ki.
    • Nearby allies gain 20% concealment for 60 seconds.
    • While this blur-like ability is much shorter, it cannot be dispelled, as with other monk buffs. Unlike some spell buffs, a this ability can blur NPCs.
  • Aligning the Heavens
    • Sequence: Water - Light - Water
    • 10 Ki.
    • Nearby allies gain a 25% reduction in spell point costs for 60 seconds.
    • This is a favorite move asked by experienced spell casters before buffing others at the start of a quest.
  • Walk of the Sun
    • Sequence: Fire - Light - Fire
    • 10 Ki.
    • Nearby allies gain a +2 untyped bonus to attack, saves, and skills for 60 seconds.
    • Remember that helpful monk buffs such as this can not be dispelled by enemy spell casters, including beholders.
  • Moment of Clarity
    • Sequence: Void - Light - Void
    • Nearby allies gain a +5 bonus to attack and skills for a short time (15 seconds). Formerly this was open to any level 10 monk that put a point in the Void Strike line, but is now available only to monks that have taken the Henshin Mystic tree to tier 5.

Path of Inevitable Dominion Finishers​

  • Touch of Despair
    • Sequence: Dark - Dark - Dark
    • 10 Ki.
    • You strike your opponent down with a terrible curse, halving all positive energy healing done to the target, reducing its fortification by 25%, and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%.
    • Periodic Fortitude saves to negate.
  • Pain Touch
    • Sequence: Earth - Dark - Earth
    • 10 Ki.
    • Target is nauseated for 60 seconds.
    • Periodic Fortitude saves to negate.
    • The effect is understated. A target afflicted with Pain Touch moves at half speed, cannot attack, and cannot cast.
  • Falling Star Strike
    • Sequence: Air - Dark - Air
    • 10 Ki.
    • Target is blinded for 60 seconds.
    • Periodic Fortitude saves to negate.
  • Freezing the Lifeblood
    • Sequence: Water - Dark - Water
    • 10 Ki.
    • Target is paralyzed and helpless for 60 seconds.
    • Humanoid targets only. Periodic Fortitude saves to negate.
  • Karmic Strike
    • Sequence: Fire - Dark - Fire
    • 10 Ki. 20 HP.
    • This attack is guaranteed to produce critical threat if it hits.
    • Using this finisher also costs the user 20 hit points, which cannot be reduced by effects such as Damage Resistance.
  • Curse of the Void
    • Sequence: Void - Dark - Void
    • Your humanoid opponent is confused, and possibly charmed for a short time (up to 2 minutes).
    • A Will Save (DC 10 + Monk level + Wisdom bonus) negates this effect.
    • Each time the target takes damage there is a chance that they will break free of this effect.
    • The effect reads "humanoid", but will work on any target Charm Monster would.
    • As with Moment of Clarity, now only available to T5 Henshin Mystics.

Level 20 Finishing Move​

  • Shining Star
    • Sequence: Earth - Air - Fire
    • 10 Ki.
    • You use the combined power of Earth, Wind, and Fire to set up harmonic vibrations within your enemy that force them to dance. A successful Will save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod + Stunning Bonuses)
    • The enemy will dance for one minute with no recurring saves.
    • This final finishing move mimics the effect of Otto's Resistible Dance on one target, but does not require a spell penetration check, and is not improved by Enchantment DC boosters.
 
S

Shear-buckler

Master of reactions
That "monk veterans" support the current system is not surprising, they would not have stuck with monks if they didnt like it. The fact remains that monk is one of the most impopular classes, and I would argue that it is in large part because of the combo/finisher system.

Before listening too much to the "monk veterans" you have to consider survivourship bias.

 
Monkey_Archer

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
Shear-buckler said:
That "monk veterans" support the current system is not surprising, they would not have stuck with monks if they didnt like it. The fact remains that monk is one of the most impopular classes, and I would argue that it is in large part because of the combo/finisher system.

Before listening too much to the "monk veterans" you have to consider survivourship bias.

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Right, because the people who actually play monks dont matter... The players who may or may not play something resembling monk in the future are who we should cater to.

I also throw my life savings into slot machines.
 
Anurakh

Anurakh

Little Nixie
Shear-buckler said:
That "monk veterans" support the current system is not surprising, they would not have stuck with monks if they didnt like it. The fact remains that monk is one of the most impopular classes, and I would argue that it is in large part because of the combo/finisher system.

Before listening too much to the "monk veterans" you have to consider survivourship bias.

Click to expand...
But if devs are really determined to remove combos, there are ways to preserve the results of these combos that make the monk class unique by making it a bit easier to activate.

If you strip away everything that makes the monk different from other melee classes, is it really a monk? Or just another fighter class?
 
Krell

Krell

Well-known member
I’m looking forward to the changes. I never liked the clunky combos and removing specific weapon restrictions will make for some fun build design.
 
S

Shear-buckler

Master of reactions
Monkey_Archer said:
Right, because the people who actually play monks dont matter... The players who may or may not play something resembling monk in the future are who we should cater to.

I also throw my life savings into slot machines.
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They matter for sure, but as I said it is not at all surprising that they support the system they are veterans of. If that is your focus group to make the least played melee class more popular you are not going to get very far thanks to the survivourship bias.

If the combo system was launched today it would have been laughed off lamannia into being scrapped.
 
Anurakh

Anurakh

Little Nixie
And if the devs want... Can we bring back water walking? I know, situational, not useful in combat... but a classic in D&D monk! I was really sad when they removed it from the monk.

Not everything has to be dps, dps, dps. The little details that make classes unique are really what brings them to life.
 
SteelStar

SteelStar

Senior Systems Designer
Anurakh said:
And if the devs want... Can we bring back water walking? I know, situational, not useful in combat... but a classic in D&D monk! I was really sad when they removed it from the monk.
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I investigated it for this pass, but the problem lies on a content and engineering end - If we can find a way to do it in the future that doesn't require a massive amount of content revision, I'll try to make it happen.
 
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