U72 Preview 1: Dragon Disciple Monk Archetype

[Melkizadek]

there seems to be so many synergies with Henshin; why not eliminate ninja spy with this tree?

I mentioned this too...so many great caster staves and the synergy with HM is so clear to me. Casters use staves, monks use staves... it just makes sense to include HM....

I think the real issue is they made this TOO much like HM and wanted it to be separate so that it felt like a different thing.

 

[Draco]

there seems to be so many synergies with Henshin; why not eliminate ninja spy with this tree?

I honestly think eliminating NiS and shintao in favour of Henshin + sorcerer savant trees would have fit better, but seems unlikely at this point.
Also something in the DD tree that enhances spellpower based on your monk stance would be awesome. Something like:
Fire: Fire+light
Wind: Elec+sonic
Earth: acid+poison
Water: Cold+negative

Feels like a missed opportunity, and would give Dragon Disciples a much needed spellpower boost that seems to be missing.

 

[Strimtom]

Good morning everyone.

I think Dragon Disciple looks fantastic, and while I didn't want a monk archetype, this is really intriguing. I like how it feels like a functional hybrid! We don't get those often so it's a fun surprised.

I have some thoughts about how this works and some changes I think could be made to make it better so I'll organize thoughts below.

• The spells Lesser Draconic Burst, Acolytes Breath, and Draconic Burst, are too slow. They feel like they are double the cast time of comparable spells, which makes them extremely difficult to use. While quickened, lesser draconic burst feels like it has the same cast speed as a non-quickened shield, which feels silly. Please improve the cast speed a bit to match the spell levels.
• Picking a new weapon type to be centered with is really cool! But they don't grant proficiency, and there is no easy way to get proficiency without taking a feat. And only a few of these weapon types even have modern support to make them feel good, so taking a feat to use a bad weapon like a pick is sort of just a punishment. I would like it is this enhancement also grant proficiency as well as being centered.
• Fist of the dragon is neat, but slow and clunky. Not everything needs an elemental bypass, but if you did want to put one in, this ability would fit if you could match it to the active imbue. If not, having the attack scale off 150% spell power since it is really slow would also be a good way to help give it some more love.

It is hard to gauge how good it is given that basically nothing worked on lamannia, but if next lamannia has more functioning abilities I plan to run a TR on lam to really get a feel for how it levels.

 

[Maetrim of Cannith]

Bug: Spells "Lesser Draconic Burst: <element>" list their max caster damage at caster level 10 as 10d6+5 when it should be 10d6+10
Bug: Spell "Black Dragon Bolt" is not in the level 4 spell list as first post specifies.
Bug: The "Clear Your Mind" enhancement tooltip text per rank says 30 seconds duration for all ranks when it should be 60 seconds for Rank 2 and 120 seconds for Rank 3.

 

[DBZ]

there seems to be so many synergies with Henshin; why not eliminate ninja spy with this tree?

Cause that would make sense

 

[Haphazard]

again, a class derived spell can have an MCL of 500 and it won't mean anything, inflict critical wounds mass is mcl 45 and still you only get to use 3 levels of that extra space to grow

because class derived spells have their caster level progression capped at level 20 and then half your epic/legendary levels, only ED spells, universal enhancements and racial enhancements got around that.

the main reason arcane spells wind up capped at 20 is the sorc savant trees have more CL bonuses than MCL bonuses which are mostly there to cap out their spell scaling sooner, having MCL above 20 doesn't really matter unless you have caster level bonuses which this class entirely lacks

Is this true for T5 abilities like Master Apothecary?

 

[Raedier]

Howl of terror is pretty meh, making it add helpless damage and scale with breath weapon + fear dc's might make it useful and fair since it's not usable on a lot of mobs, critters, constructs, undead are all immune to it.
Or better yet, turn it into a cower effect.
It would also be awesome if it used the shifter Howl animation but be able to be quickened ofcourse.

 

[Zao]

The DCs on howl of terror need to be pushed up a bit.
And give it a cower ability.

 

[Havocthedemon1]

Are the new SLA’s technically breath attacks? Will they be affected by Dragonborn’s racial enhancement for breath attacks? A Dragonborn Disciple seems quite fitting.

 

[Edrein]

Are the new SLA’s technically breath attacks? Will they be affected by Dragonborn’s racial enhancement for breath attacks? A Dragonborn Disciple seems quite fitting.

Only the two breath spells, I couldn't get it to activate on the bursts. Or if it did it was pretty unreliable. Granted I was testing the 8% knockdown proc so your mileage may vary.

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

For a class depicting itself as a hybrid- the enhancements don't do a very good job of encouraging the interweaving of both melee and spellcasting, in the same way that Eldritch Knight rewards you for doing so.

There's also not enough new, and unique effects(in the tree or spell list), that makes Dragon Disciple exciting or distinct.

It's also very odd and jarring that it uses Ranger spell components. Just give them Eschew Materials, on the basis that tapping into that Draconic Magic derives its power internally.

Could use an ability to expend ki to gain a spellpower boost. Or expend ki to gain something equivalent to Radiant Forcefield. It's going to need it with how it wants to be in the thick of the action.

 

[Havocthedemon1]

For a class depicting itself as a hybrid- the enhancements don't do a very good job of encouraging the interweaving of both melee and spellcasting, in the same way that Eldritch Knight rewards you for doing so.

There's also not enough new, and unique effects(in the tree or spell list), that makes Dragon Disciple exciting or distinct.

It's also very odd and jarring that it uses Ranger spell components. Just give them Eschew Materials, on the basis that tapping into that Draconic Magic derives its power internally.

Could use an ability to expend ki to gain a spellpower boost. Or expend ki to gain something equivalent to Radiant Forcefield. It's going to need it with how it wants to be in the thick of the action.

There should be an “arcane warrior” type benefit in the tree to encourage weaving melee and spell usage. If played correctly it should allow them the ability to be just as good of a damage dealer as a nuker or full melee - as long as they jump through the hoops to do so. Rewarding skill is the only way to balance the hybrid playstyle and make it useful. Otherwise it’s terrible at both and unplayable - as many of us fear.