U72 Preview 2: Monk Class Changes

[seph1roth5]

How can they not get that to work?
Couldn't they do some compromise maybe of get +1 ki everytime you do an attack animation at least?

Because they have no idea how to get it to work lol. I believe NOTHING in game adds ki on ranged attacks..

 

[Sophie The Cat Burglar]

Welp. Don't understand any of it but hope my staff monkette can keep spanking naughty people.

Monkette: You're actions have unbalanced the harmonious resonance of existence. I must thoroughly admonish you with this very large stick before yoga class. Prepare to have your chakras, karma, and buttocks mystically adjusted. You may experience a burning sensation...

 

[Bjond]

• Mantra of Body is now Mantra of Soul, and grants +5/10/20 MRR

Without an MRR cap increase to go with it, this is a waste of AP.

• Kata of Ice can now freeze most creature types (only exclusions are now Floating, Incorporeal, Boss, and Raid Boss)

Missed a fun new animation here with floating creatures turned to ice and crashing to the ground. IMHO, there should be a debuff effect for creatures that are immune to the freeze or it becomes too situational.

This is proving to be tricky on a technical level. We'd still like to incorporate this somewhere useful, ideally still tied to Light Monks - Where would you like to see it?

Something passive: aura or on-hit debuff or a bonus applied with other actives. A bonus is particularly nice if it's not just a heal, but incorporates other cleanses, such as curse, restoration, poison, disease.

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Overall Class Adjustments​

1. Quivering Palm's DC now uses Strength if it is highest (highest of Strength, Dexterity, or Wisdom Modifier)

I love the DC change. I'd also like to see a lower level for the feat; eg. L12 to match assassinate. Considering monk's severe lack of both DPS and Utility compared to Assassin, it does need something of an advantage.

Ninja Spy​

• Cores:
  • Poisoned Darts now reads "Ki Activate: You spit poisoned darts in a cone before you. Nearby enemies are affected by between 4 and 8 stacks of

No immunity strip makes AP spent on any poison ability in the tree a complete waste and thus kills the tree's flavor, particularly the dark path. It also puts Ninja even further behind Assassin, which does have an immunity strip.

• Tier 3:
  • Flash Bang is removed, and replaced by Shadow Arts:
    • Dark Path: Shadow Flurry: Melee Attack: +20% damage. Target must make a saving throw equal to (18 + Monk Level + Highest of Str/Dex/

Needs something for ranged or it forces all ranged to be light path.

• Tier 4:
  • Deadly Exploits is removed, and replaced with Greater Shadow Arts:
    • Dark Path: Poison Exploit: On a failed saving throw, your Touch of Despair purges an enemy of Ninja Poison, dealing 1d20 + 20 poison damage per stack of Ninja Poison removed. Scales with higher of Melee/Ranged Power.

No point in ranged power scaling without ranged support for all dark-path abilities. No point in poison damage without immunity strip.

• Tier 5:
  • Touch of Death now reads: You strike a living opponent down with twisted ki, dealing +50% damage and 500 additional Poison damage that scales with 200% Melee Power. Your opponent takes half damage on a successful Fortitude save (DC = 14 + Monk Level + Highest of Str/Dex/Wis Modifier + Assassinate DCs). Cooldown: 15 seconds). Passive: +3 to Hit and Damage while Centered.

No immunity strip makes this pointless as an active ability. It's basically 3 hit/dam passive now.

Shintao

• Tier 2:
  • Quick Strike is no longer restricted to Quarterstaves, but you must be Centered.

This little gem should have been bolded. It puts wraps and other monk weapons closer to VFK builds for ease of building.

• Tier 3
  • Dark Path: Hand of Harm: Melee Attack: This attack is a guaranteed critical strike. You strike your opponent down with a terrible curse, halving all positive energy healing done to the target, reducing its fortification by 25%. Periodic Fortitude saves (14 + STR/DEX/WIS Modifier + Monk Level +
• Tier 5:
  • Kukan-Do now reads: You lock gazes with an enemy, stunning them for a short period of time on a failed Will save (DC 14 + Wisdom modifier + Monk level). Any effects that modify your Stunning Blow or Stunning Fist DC's also affect this ability. Sightless creatures are unaffected by this ability.

The right hand giveth and the left hand taketh away; Wisdom DC undoes the expanded DC available in T3.

Henshin Mystic​

• Tier 3:
  • NEW: Clear Your Mind: Battle Trance: While Centered, you gain an Insight bonus to Attack, Damage and the DC of Tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Wisdom modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. Cooldown: 20 seconds. Activation Cost: 35 Ki. The effects of this Trance are dispelled if you are no longer

Ki-based trance is fantastic. WIS-only makes the STR/DEX DC alternatives elsewhere rather pointless, though. BTW, I'm fine with monks essentialy being WIS-only, it's just the trees are a bit conflicted on that.

BTW, a WIS thrower would be interesting if you want to go all in on WIS support and include WIS to doubleshot the way Alchemist does INT.

• Tier 3:
  • Elemental Words is replaced with Mystic Kata:
    • Light Path: Kata of Wind: Activate to grant you and nearby allies 20% Concealment for 60 seconds. (9 second cooldown, costs 10 ki)

Conceal was effectively removed from the game a while ago. It should be at least a little useful. Light path applying cleanses might be a better alternative; eg. remove curses, poison, disease, restoration, etc..

• Dark Path: Kata of Dark Stars: You use the power of the stars to set up harmonic vibrations within your enemy that force them to dance for 12 seconds. (DC = 10 + STR/DEX/WIS modifier + Monk level + Stunning DC boosts). Costs 20 ki, 9 second cooldown

Single target dance is fairly pointless; T4 should be AE or have no-DC if single. And uh, dancing isn't very "dark", though I suppose you could dark it up with a purple disco ball and different sound FX.

 

[SpardaX]

I wasn't aware until today lol. I assumed they fixed it since P1 where it didn't work, but haven't been on Lamma since.

Nothing to fix Im afraid. Direct conversation with the guy doing the work from the official discord, Lamannia Bugs channel:

Rose — 15/02/2025 01:22
Hey Steelstar, "Core 2 of Henshin Mystic now has its intended Ki generation" Did you manage to get it working with ranged?
SteelStar — 15/02/2025 01:23
Nope, sorry.
Rose — 15/02/2025 01:23
sadness
Is it still on the docket? Or given up on?
SteelStar — 15/02/2025 01:24
Unlikely, just given the timing of things. I'd gone in under the assumption it'd been excluded in the past solely for balance reasons, turns out there's also substantial tech work that would need to be done to get it to work
Which isn't impossible to do, but it's also Not Small

 

[SpardaX]

Citation please?

My comment just above this one.

 

[J1NG]

Nothing to fix Im afraid. Direct conversation with the guy doing the work from discord:

Rose — 15/02/2025 01:22
Hey Steelstar, "Core 2 of Henshin Mystic now has its intended Ki generation" Did you manage to get it working with ranged?
SteelStar — 15/02/2025 01:23
Nope, sorry.
Rose — 15/02/2025 01:23
sadness
Is it still on the docket? Or given up on?
SteelStar — 15/02/2025 01:24
Unlikely, just given the timing of things. I'd gone in under the assumption it'd been excluded in the past solely for balance reasons, turns out there's also substantial tech work that would need to be done to get it to work
Which isn't impossible to do, but it's also Not Small

Could have told everyone it was unlikely to happen, even to the Devs... Oh wait... I did...

There was a reason I said to start early so many months ago, as so much stuff would have needed changes to make certain stuff happen.... But... here we are.

J1NG

 

[SpardaX]

Could have told everyone it was unlikely to happen, even to the Devs... Oh wait... I did...

There was a reason I said to start early so many months ago, as so much stuff would have needed changes to make certain stuff happen.... But... here we are.

J1NG

Maybe we need to start a petition to give Steel the time he needs to get the work done. Many devs in the past have said something along the lines of, "We have this amount of time to work on this thing before we need to move on to work on the next thing". (Which Im guessing is also the reason they cant just start the work earlier. I'm sure everyone was working on something else important) But this change strongly needs to work, or all the new toys and even some of the old toys for Shuriken might as well not exist. Steel, what do we need to do, to give you the time you need just for this one feature (ki on shuriken)

 

[seph1roth5]

blur is something that is being vastly overestimated. I remember when it first came up in the discord, one of the devs felt that aoe blur was very powerful at lv 3.

I highly doubt most people bother casting the spell at that level, I sure don't. I put on blurry gear at 5 (3 if I can find my bracers) but it's not a huge deal, more of a "Wonder if I have any pre-fey gear to slap on...." And the aoe-ness just means your crap wolf, braindead hireling, or summoned...wolf(?) might dodge a hit before being clobbered 1 second later.

Could literally make it an aria-type perma buff that blurs everyone within 60' and keeps reapplying and it'd be "Eh I guess it might come up once or twice" kind of thing.

 

[ACJ97F]

Math doesnt "fall apart".

Though SSG is fully capable of getting math to fall apart. There's bugs from U37 filigree still broken, to walls that randomly change pattern.
Really, it's almost an art form at this point, being able to take anything at all, and make a full-court shot into a blender without hitting a rim.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Nothing to fix Im afraid. Direct conversation with the guy doing the work from the official discord, Lamannia Bugs channel:

SteelStar — 15/02/2025 01:24
Unlikely, just given the timing of things. I'd gone in under the assumption it'd been excluded in the past solely for balance reasons, turns out there's also substantial tech work that would need to be done to get it to work
Which isn't impossible to do, but it's also Not Small

Well, posted in that channel (which I didn't have on my channel list lol) but I'd really like to see either regen or a clicky in the absence of on-hit.

Shadow Double looks great but seems pretty awkward if you can't afford it. Might as well make it a 5min CD if that's how often you can use it lol, and then you can buff it

 

[Jodro]

Just a quick question cause I didn't see it in Lamania, so monk will lose his +15% attack speed with q-stuff?
I thought they moved it to 3rd core, but wasn't displayed in Lamania and "+" in character sheet didn't have it either, and the first post of this thread says that its removed from 6th core.
(If its answered already, sorry I didn't see that)

 

[Lotoc]

Just a quick question cause I didn't see it in Lamania, so monk will lose his +15% attack speed with q-stuff?
I thought they moved it to 3rd core, but wasn't displayed in Lamania and "+" in character sheet didn't have it either, and the first post of this thread says that its removed from 6th core.
(If its answered already, sorry I didn't see that)

• Negotiator is removed, and replaced with Exemplar (formerly in Shintao). Exemplar's +10% Threat Generation is removed, and replaced with +5/10/15% Attack Speed with Quarterstaves. Antirequisite: Rogue Acrobatics

 

[SpardaX]

Another alternative thought for a method of Ki generation for ranged monks. I posted it in the Discord but I'll leave it here too:

Perhaps add a new Heroic level feat that adds +ki on tumble as part of a new tumble feat similar to Trick Shot and Defensive Tumble.

Like (some number between 5 - 20) + 1/2 Total Character Level Ki on tumble, you're tumble charges recharge 0.5s quicker

Make it a martial arts feat

Call it Focus Dodge

 

[Jodro]

• Negotiator is removed, and replaced with Exemplar (formerly in Shintao). Exemplar's +10% Threat Generation is removed, and replaced with +5/10/15% Attack Speed with Quarterstaves. Antirequisite: Rogue Acrobatics

Thank you very much, I guess i missed it yesterday thinking its still negotiator.
Do we know if this will be applied in animal form as well?

 

[pame12]

blur is something that is being vastly overestimated. I remember when it first came up in the discord, one of the devs felt that aoe blur was very powerful at lv 3.

I highly doubt most people bother casting the spell at that level, I sure don't. I put on blurry gear at 5 (3 if I can find my bracers) but it's not a huge deal, more of a "Wonder if I have any pre-fey gear to slap on...." And the aoe-ness just means your crap wolf, braindead hireling, or summoned...wolf(?) might dodge a hit before being clobbered 1 second later.

Could literally make it an aria-type perma buff that blurs everyone within 60' and keeps reapplying and it'd be "Eh I guess it might come up once or twice" kind of thing.

The devs play too much regular dnd, not enough DDO.

 

[pame12]

Another alternative thought for a method of Ki generation for ranged monks. I posted it in the Discord but I'll leave it here too:

Perhaps add a new Heroic level feat that adds +ki on tumble as part of a new tumble feat similar to Trick Shot and Defensive Tumble.

Like (some number between 5 - 20) + 1/2 Total Character Level Ki on tumble, you're tumble charges recharge 0.5s quicker

Make it a martial arts feat

Call it Focus Dodge

You might need to repost as I couldn't find it in the u72 monk revamp channel.

 

[SpardaX]

Thank you very much, I guess i missed it yesterday thinking its still negotiator.
Do we know if this will be applied in animal form as well?

Probably not. I believe stuff that boosts speed with specific weapons just boosts that animation's speed. I think Animal Forms usually break weapon specific stuff because they use their own animations.

 

[SpardaX]

You might need to repost as I couldn't find it in the u72 monk revamp channel.

It was in the Lam bugs channel because that's where Steel posted the original notes I quoted and the short conversation I had with him was in there. But I posted another copy in the Monk Update channel. This is on the official Discord.

 

[Pretty Good Old One]

Tried the Monk changes more this week, and I appreciate the changes from preview 1 to 2. A level 6+ Monk with Cauldron and Hand of Healing is a fun leveler. The main thing I miss from the old monk are the missing Ninjutsu finishers, and it would be nice to get a way for ranged Ninja to more easily generate Ki.

It was sometimes hard to use, but Impending Doom could really help a low level Ninja. It was a source of temporary HP and Ki. I still like the idea of overloading all of the Ninjutsu finishers on Shadow Flurry, even better if it could be ranged as well.

If that is too difficult or OP, what about just making Impending Doom a ranged attack. It doesn't need to be exactly the same, just move the effect of marking a target that fails a save, such that if it is killed you get temp hp and Ki reward. Level of HP and Ki could be adjusted for balance. At lower levels it makes the Ninja a little more self sufficient. It would also allow a Dragon Disciple to put a little in Ninja Spy and try to be ranged hybrid, that could fall back on bursts/breaths if it got surrounded.

How about Ninja Spy Core 1 or 2:
Ranged Attack (to allow bows or shuriken): +10% damage, if you damage the target, inflict Impending Doom. If Target fails save, it is marked with Impending Doom. Impending Doom: If target dies with 60 seconds, monk gains x(25?) ki and y(25?) temp hp. Cost 10ki. Cooldown 9 seconds.

 

[Pretty Good Old One]

One other repeated request... bring back Wave of Despair. I know there have not been a lot of requests for it, but it was a cool ability. It was one of the few ways to generate level drain at a low level. It may not be the most powerful effect, especially at higher difficulties, but it makes parts of leveling more fun. I mean, overall it doesn't do much to a lot of monsters/bosses, but it is one of the few ways a level 3 can take out a room full of test kobolds in a few seconds... fun, even if where it is useful is limited.

Just adding it in to one of the existing Dark Attacks would allow some fun with it. It would be nice if it was a tier 3, so it would allow early access to level drain like the current monks.

If not, could it be a stand alone attack at Tier 3 Ninjutsu? With the updated finishers being easier to use, this could be a fun situational ability.