U72 Preview 2: True Reincarnation

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mikarddo

Well-known member
I have them. I am vip and have the expansions save for vecna, dinoland and md. I just don't see how people do this a hundred plus times. Grouping is non existant, at least for the stuff I do. I have almost never seen a lfm I can actually join, and no one wants to join mine. So it is run the same stuff, over and over, till the end of time. I made it to cap on my last life, and epics were a thousand times the slog heroics were needing millions of xp at super low rates. Then grinding the devil assult to get the tokens I need. As for level 9 in feywild the epic? Eleite? Whatever is level 9 there.

Editing for a post that came after while I was typing. Yes, it is fun for now. There are a lot of quests I can just blitz through and turn my mind off for some good ol monster bashing. I just don't feel like I am getting anywhere.
Which server are you on? Which time zone?

Feywild quests are level 5 and 6 base which means most players run them while being level 7 and run on R1. Being level 9 means you get quite a bit less xp and thus other players are unlikely to join your group.

Heroics can be a pain until you are strong enough to solo zerg R1. If you get into a fast group try to hang on for as long as possible.

Epics are usually easier and faster to level because you can join a wider range of groups. Try to get into groups running von, Wiz king+Oob, Spies and Lord of Dust + Servants for great xp and tokens. Dont be shut asking if others will pass tokens. Some have 100s and will happily help. Solving Devils Assault for tokens is slow work for sure. But basically join any group that runs quests you have not done yet and have access to.. even if the quest is higher level.

Important. Do not run the same quest multiple times in general. Its much slower xp.
 

Shear-buckler

Master of reactions
I have them. I am vip and have the expansions save for vecna, dinoland and md. I just don't see how people do this a hundred plus times. Grouping is non existant, at least for the stuff I do. I have almost never seen a lfm I can actually join, and no one wants to join mine. So it is run the same stuff, over and over, till the end of time. I made it to cap on my last life, and epics were a thousand times the slog heroics were needing millions of xp at super low rates. Then grinding the devil assult to get the tokens I need. As for level 9 in feywild the epic? Eleite? Whatever is level 9 there.

Editing for a post that came after while I was typing. Yes, it is fun for now. There are a lot of quests I can just blitz through and turn my mind off for some good ol monster bashing. I just don't feel like I am getting anywhere.
The grind is fine, just put in 5000 hours.
 

Minako

Well-known member
Sorry that I derailed this. I want to just make a few points others have.

1. Reducing the first few lives is meaningless. If there is 150 lives there is more then enough grind at the base value.

2. People other then me have said older content needs a look to see about better xp to time ratios. Not to mention making loot relevant to the modern game. So people are not doing the exact same leveling route every time. A hireling pass so they are not totally useless after the first life would be fantastic as well.

3. No matter what they do to make leveling and reincarnation easyer you are going to have old timers screaming and up in arms, because they had to do it so we have to do it.
 

Redoubt

Well-known member
Flip this around. The first couple lives provide big bonuses and that's when people are still excited. By life 9 they will look forward at another 100 lives at 3.8mil and bail. Make a big hill at the start, then slope down.
Life 1: 1,900,000
LIfe 2: 2,850,000
Life 3-5: 3,800,000
Then drop by 5% per life until back to 1,900,000. Happens at life 19.
Total xp this way is 55mil to 20 lives. The new plan proposed is 65mil.
This way you will also be able to crank out additional lives faster to catch up.
 

Azasmokey

Well-known member
For me . It would make me try to get a few PLs for my 2 alts.
however a more generous less xp amount of times would be better.
 

Reifee - Orien

Well-known member
The logic I see is, People playing 3 lives they tend to burn out pretty fast as the amoutn of work is pretty high.

However if your 7-9 lives into a character your more invested. So this is more of a "help a player get invested" so they have higher staying power.

IMHO the TR system is O.K. It should be a bit less.

Mind you I TR about 1x a month, so I'm a much more casual palyer then most.
 

Ahser

Well-known member
However, the reason why a grind reduction is needed in one form or another is that reincarnation is not a closed system. They keep creating more and more past lives, and this is something that cannot be sustained without making the rewards more affordable to obtain.
In order to do that they would need to reevaluate how they make money. Because right now it looks like their main stream of revenue is selling XP pots and Otto boxes as a solution to the artificially manufactured problem.

I'd rather see them selling skins and cosmetics.
 

Haphazard

Sock Puppet
It's not going far enough. I think the xp for the first few lives should be really, really easy to get. Those first few lives make a big difference for newer players as they;

Teach players the basic core loop of the game and the content
Make the most difference in terms of character power
Help players in understanding reincarnation strategy
Encourage access to higher level play that further bridges the power gap by giving access to better kit and more reaper points.
Spend more. Players that don't engage don't spend money on the game. We want more players to spend money on the game.

Players should fly through their first life. Maybe 1m xp. Maybe even less. If players are leveling every few quests that's great. If they want to buy an xp potion to make it ridiculously fast even better - SS makes some money and the player stays engaged.

Maybe this is only the first life, maybe it's the first few then scale it to what it is now, maybe after 30 lives. Get people used to the process, get them trying higher level content, show them the rewards.

New people get into the game and go... "Ill never get there. I'll never be able to play that content or with those groups, or those raids". We need to show them they can, that it's worth it.

There are lots of other things that could help of course (reaper should be much much easier to get the first 50 points as well) but I think making the first few lives much easier would help on a number of levels.

Hap
 
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Neain

Well-known member
2. People other then me have said older content needs a look to see about better xp to time ratios. Not to mention making loot relevant to the modern game. So people are not doing the exact same leveling route every time. A hireling pass so they are not totally useless after the first life would be fantastic as well.

3. No matter what they do to make leveling and reincarnation easyer you are going to have old timers screaming and up in arms, because they had to do it so we have to do it.

2. 100% agree and will add my name to wishing they would do this.

3. As one of the 'old timers', I have to say that the people who are screaming and up in arms are the loud minority. Most of the other old timers I talk to (sadly, not all) agree that something needs to be done because we love this game and want to see it stick around and for that we need new people to stay. (maybe that's just the case on 'snobby' khyber, but I believe that if I hear that there, then its the same on most other servers).
 

HunterRayder93

Extraplanar Adventurer & Horizon Walker Enthusiast
How's that saying go? "You can please some of the DDO community none of the time and some of them none of the time but you can't please any of them any of the time"?
What do you mean?
It's not going far enough. I think the xp for the first few lives should be really, really easy to get. Those first few lives make a big difference for newer players as they;

Teach players the basic core loop of the game and the content
Make the most difference in terms of character power
Help players in understanding reincarnation strategy
Encourage access to higher level play that further bridges the power gap by giving access to better kit and more reaper points.
Spend more. Players that don't engage don't spend money on the game. We want more players to spend money on the game.

Players should fly through their first life. Maybe 1m xp. Maybe even less. If players are leveling every few quests that's great. If they want to buy an xp potion to make it ridiculously fast even better - SS makes some money and the player stays engaged.

Maybe this is only the first life, maybe it's the first few then scale it to what it is now, maybe after 30 lives. Get people used to the process, get them trying higher level content, show them the rewards.

New people get into the game and go... "Ill never get there. I'll never be able to play that content or with those groups, or those raids". We need to show them they can, that it's worth it.

There are lots of other things that could help of course (reaper should be much much easier to get the first 50 points as well) but I think making the first few lives much easier would help on a number of levels.

Hap
The problem is that we are in an era where most people do not want to learn or understand certain mechanics of a game, many have work, family or school... the modern player just wants to get attached to the console or PC, turn off his brain and have fun... then as I will have already said a few posts above I have learned that there are different types of targets, each one has a different need... SSG must find a way to please everyone, and making the first lives easier to do... it is not enough.
2. 100% agree and will add my name to wishing they would do this.

3. As one of the 'old timers', I have to say that the people who are screaming and up in arms are the loud minority. Most of the other old timers I talk to (sadly, not all) agree that something needs to be done because we love this game and want to see it stick around and for that we need new people to stay. (maybe that's just the case on 'snobby' khyber, but I believe that if I hear that there, then its the same on most other servers).
Exactly! The real players, unfortunately, are often the ones who stay in the shadows. They are the ones who help new players the most, patiently explaining the mechanics and how the game works. And, as has been said many times before, I completely agree: a rework of the hireling system is necessary. The current system is outdated and practically useless… At legendary levels, hirelings are almost worthless.

I have suggested multiple times a system similar to Guild Wars' Mercenary Heroes, where you can recruit different heroes throughout the game world or even create your own custom heroes. There are many things SSG could improve to enhance the overall experience, and I’ve already seen some positive changes since I returned. For example, the way named items are obtained has been improved. The system is already in place—just look at the items acquired through tokens in the Wild Zones.

What I’d love to see is an improvement in the game's quality of life without turning DDO into a full-time job. But so far, none of these things have been implemented. I’ve almost lost hope… but we’ll see.

Back to the XP issue—there is a simple solution: remove the XP penalty entirely. And it's not true that SSG doesn’t sell potions, Otto Boxes, and other boosts. The point is something else: these things should be a choice, not a necessity. We are in an era where cosmetics and vanity items are more accepted than pay-to-win mechanics. Let’s stop living in the Stone Age and face reality: the XP penalty needs to go!
 

HunterRayder93

Extraplanar Adventurer & Horizon Walker Enthusiast
In my opinion,the main issue isn’t just the grind itself, but the fact that after the third life, the XP penalty becomes fixed, making heroic leveling a long and frustrating process. Personally, I believe the best solution isn’t just reducing the required XP but removing the XP penalty entirely after the third reincarnation.

To balance this change and still provide a long-term goal for dedicated players, the maximum stack for Past Lives could be increased from 3 to 4 or even 6. This would justify the grind without forcing everyone into an exhausting leveling cycle just to progress.

This way:
✅ Players who want to reincarnate multiple times would still have a reason to do so.
✅ Casual players wouldn’t feel trapped in an endless XP penalty loop.

What do you think?
 

Ganj

Member
I think what needs to be further addressed is the 3 day lockout to TR. Waiting 1-2 days to TR again after going 1-30 is just wrong. I know why its in place, but there needs to be a way around it if you went legit 1-30, ie no boxs/shard rolls.
 

Felsyn

Pretty Normal Weird Guy
The way I see it any new or returning player is going to still look at the TR grind and say no thanks.

Edit - just needs 'more'
 
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Haphazard

Sock Puppet
I think it's fair to say that if you're not interested in at least some learning of a complex system then DDO isn't right for you and possibly any MMO. But within that audience group I think you want to make it as appealing as possible within the restrictions of what you can work with.

One of DDOs biggest issues is the gap between new players and veterans. It splits the player-base, leads to disconnected player experiences and makes creating content difficult. It's a very difficult problem to solve and gets harder over time but I think one way to help would be to essentially have systems be difficult when they're first introduced then become easier over time so it's easier to catch up. It's a little bit like making content free after a while. Players that buy it at full price get to enjoy it for a while but don't mind so much after a few years that others get it. Make it the same for similar for xp. Veteran players with hundreds of lives have already had the benefit for years. Reaper has been around for 9 years now. Players with 150 have had great benefits already, had the bragging rights for ages. Do they really care now that new players get a much easier time?

Hap
 

Phaaze

Well-known member
That would not scale fast enough. By your 20th life you only have a 20% bonus.

I think a 4% compounding bonus that capped at 28 lives would be better. You'd be earning about triple XP at that point, which brings you back down to where you started.

I think a progression hump like that might be the best compromise. XP is optimal for new players and for heavily invested ones
There are 16 races and soon to be 24 classes/archetypes is 40 different heroic/racial past lives and 3 each is 120 lives. So that would be +120% exp at on a first life and +100% by life 20, not 20%.

With 54 epic past lives could also do +54% epic exp minus 1% for each epic past life gained.

Maybe iconics could be on the epic track too for an extra 30% epic exp, -1% for each iconic past life.

Would make early players level super fast but players with lots of past lives level much slower
 
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