U74 Preview 1: Dhampir Race

[Kipp]

Just to clarify: Dhampir are not expressly meant to be a melee/ranged race to the exclusion of anything else.

They are meant to be a race that has some synergy with melee and ranged builds, while also having other synergies with other kinds of builds.

Thats what I meant by specific synergy, you cannot have a race be amazing for all builds, some will always lean towards a particular style but offer things for everyone because ultimately for a lot of people (myself included) we pick race based on what we like, rather than what is "best". In the same way that gnome offers some smaller bonus if you used their weapons, its clearly designed more for an int user. It would be weird for me to demand gnome also be great for my specific paladin build just because I, personally, like gnomes. You should definitely aim to give Dhampir more towards non str melee than it currently does, but not at the expense of it feeling like half of the stuff is useless. For starters, some healing SLA of some kind would go a long way because then it would be a reasonable option for any class with limited self healing. You'd be tied to negative, sure, but at least you wouldnt really on the 5 people in the game that play negative alchemist or dark apostate to heal you

 

[droid327]

I thought about that too

4 str plus 4 stunning dc and another cower attack... As if they needed more helpless cc lol

At least there's no helpless damage enhancement in the tree

 

[Smokewolf]

Honestly, I don't see what hybrids this race can boost. Having dual-calculated attacks doesn't make it a race for gishes.

Its hybrid in the sense that its attempting to please everyone's play style, rather than focusing on a single player style. (Melee, Ranged, Caster, Healer, Tank ect.) Because of this is will perform poorly than all of the races that have come before it, with the exception of a few niche builds.

 

[Smokewolf]

In all seriousness: If someone has a build that synergizes with Dhampir please post it. I simply don't see what builds this class is meant to synergize with. I don't care if it's heroic-levels only. Aside from doing 3x past lives for the bonuses, this race seems dead on arrival to me.

The coolest part of the race is the Vampire form, but that's an extremely niche benefit that won't be used by the majority of players.

This!

 

[Smokewolf]

it has +2 strength but the form has +2 int, wis, cha
It has Strength, Con and Cha as multiselectors in the cores.
So it's potentially overall capable of giving +4 Str, +2 con, +2 wis, +2 int or +4 charisma based on your choices.
It is just as much a charisma race as a strength race overall but if you're playing a build that already uses a major form it's effectively only +4 str or +2 con or +2 cha.

Ok then... try building an Int / wis / cha based caster with one assuming you've full racial AP available to do so. You'll quickly find that the race doesn't synergize with anything and that your DC's will be sub-par from Heroics to Cap.

 

[Smokewolf]

If DDO's past development is any indication of it's future. The Dhampir is pretty much done and close to public release. Thus making changes to it, is now beyond the realm of possible. We are (once again) stuck with another hybrid-race without any significant synergy to the builds people want to play.

 

[droid327]

In all seriousness: If someone has a build that synergizes with Dhampir please post it. I simply don't see what builds this class is meant to synergize with. I don't care if it's heroic-levels only. Aside from doing 3x past lives for the bonuses, this race seems dead on arrival to me.

The coolest part of the race is the Vampire form, but that's an extremely niche benefit that won't be used by the majority of players.

Sorc with vampire form so you can use da and neb for self healing

Vamp Apothecary using inflict slas and poison multi vial/poison strip

Dhamp dlord with synergy to STR, stun dc, an extra cower attack (we'll need to see what's immune to it though) and an extra burst heal alongside SW, to go with an insta kill that you can use after Roar as well, that scales off your Stun DC but you can also throw on an Ench augment to bump it even higher

 

[Anurakh]

Sorc with vampire form so you can use da and neb for self healing

Vamp Apothecary using inflict slas and poison multi vial/poison strip

Dhamp dlord with synergy to STR, stun dc, an extra cower attack (we'll need to see what's immune to it though) and an extra burst heal alongside SW, to go with an insta kill that you can use after Roar as well, that scales off your Stun DC but you can also throw on an Ench augment to bump it even higher

Sorc with vampire form so you can use da and neb for self healing--> maybe a leveling build, meh at end game. positive healing is a lot better in epics. And sorc has bad neg spellpower.

Vamp Apothecary using inflict slas and poison multi vial/poison stri--Better than the sorc option, but still a leveler build, not an end game build.

Dhamp dlord with synergy to STR, stun dc, an extra cower attack - Yes, I think of all melees DLs have the most synergy. Assuming the devs added negative healing to EDs, it might be a viable option. But halforc would still be more damage, shadar-kai better CC and AoE, negative healing amplification gear is a pain and it is easier you are healed with positive energy than negative in a r10 party or raid, so... viable, but I'm not sure it's worth it. But probably the class with the most synergy.

 

[Anurakh]

Its hybrid in the sense that its attempting to please everyone's play style, rather than focusing on a single player style. (Melee, Ranged, Caster, Healer, Tank ect.) Because of this is will perform poorly than all of the races that have come before it, with the exception of a few niche builds.

But that's not a dedicated tree for hybrids. In D&D, a hybrid = a gish, a toon who wields magic and fights with weapons; EK is a hybrid, for example. In any case, a tree can actually support several playstyles; there's room in the tree for different bonuses, and some options can be multi-selectors.

 

[Ratatoskr_Mikew]

The Devs should ask themselves:

1-How this race might be able to have synergy with the new Blightcaster Druid?

2-Whether or not Dhampir Paladins should get access to harm spells?

3-Why can't the Dhampir be able to heal through negative energy straight out of character creation like Warforged can heal from both positive and repair types straight out of character creation. (The tree and feats should exist around determining which one they heal more proficiently from).

4-If the Dhampir can attack with a charge of bats rushing forward, then what about a charge of bats spiraling around the Dhampir? A Stand in place AOE melee attack makes sense, does it not? How would a Dhampir be capable of a charge attack like that but not an AOE? Spiral Of Bats just makes sense.

5-The Dhampir can heal from both negative and positive energy and both of those scale off of the heal skill in which scales off of wisdom, why does the racial tree not include Wisdom enhancements?

6-Is it time to add a Domain Of Undeath to the clerics domains?

7-What would a Dhampir's equivalent to the construct exemplar and improved fortification feats be?

Play with and resolve all of these, and the mechanics for the character can be fixed!

As for the aesthetic issues, base their face on the Half Elf, add minor vampiric features and the same hair style selection to that!

 

[Anurakh]

The Devs should ask themselves:

1-How this race might be able to have synergy with the new Blightcaster Druid?

2-Whether or not Dhampir Paladins should get access to harm spells?

3-Why can't the Dhampir be able to heal through negative energy straight out of character creation like Warforged can heal from both positive and repair types straight out of character creation. (The tree and feats should exist around determining which one they heal more proficiently from).

4-If the Dhampir can attack with a charge of bats rushing forward, then what about a charge of bats spiraling around the Dhampir? A Stand in place AOE melee attack makes sense, does it not? How would a Dhampir be capable of a charge attack like that but not an AOE? Spiral Of Bats just makes sense.

5-The Dhampir can heal from both negative and positive energy and both of those scale off of the heal skill in which scales off of wisdom, why does the racial tree not include Wisdom enhancements?

6-Is it time to add a Domain Of Undeath to the clerics domains?

7-What would a Dhampir's equivalent to the construct exemplar and improved fortification feats be?

Play with and resolve all of these, and the mechanics for the character can be fixed!

As for the aesthetic issues, base their face on the Half Elf, add minor vampiric features and the same hair style selection to that!

1- The real question is, is the race being competitive with other races for the archetypes we want to use it? Competitive isn't OP, mind you. But negative healing has a few drawbacks to keep in mind.

2-No! A paladin using negative spells would be a Blackguard, a antipaladin. A future archetype, maybe. A true paladin with negative spells is an aberration.

3- Because they're giving you the opportunity to not want to have that negative affinity. And that's a good thing. Thanks to the devs for this freedom.

7- Improved fortication is an abominable trap that should removed from the game. Construct exemplar is the same than the dhampir shroud, but more expensive: 2 feats instead so few action points!

 

[Smokewolf]

But that's not a dedicated tree for hybrids. In D&D, a hybrid = a gish, a toon who wields magic and fights with weapons; EK is a hybrid, for example. In any case, a tree can actually support several playstyles; there's room in the tree for different bonuses, and some options can be multi-selectors.

Your confusing HYBRID. A class thats doing two things at the same time, and doing it badly. With race which is attempting to meet the needs of more than one play-style. Strong races by definition offer something that provides a significant advantage or synergy with a specific style of play. IE: Melee, Ranged, Caster, Healer, Tank.

Dhampir offers very little that's attractive to any style of play other than maybe melee. (Dragonlord) However even then, there are far better races for Dragonlord, with obvious reasons. In the end, what we have here amounts to is busy work for all the folks who wish to maintain their completionist status. Which to be perfectly honest is very disapointing considering all the talk and hype about it over the last several months.

 

[Anurakh]

Your confusing HYBRID. A class thats doing two things at the same time, and doing it badly. With race which is attempting to meet the needs of more than one play-style. Strong races by definition offer something that provides a significant advantage or synergy with a specific style of play. IE: Melee, Ranged, Caster, Healer, Tank.

Dhampir offers very little that's attractive to any style of play other than maybe melee. (Dragonlord) However even then, there are far better races for Dragonlord, with obvious reasons. In the end, what we have here amounts to is busy work for all the folks who wish to maintain their completionist status. Which to be perfectly honest is very disapointing considering all the talk and hype about it over the last several months.

LOL. That's exactly what I said about what is a hybrid, although I'd change "badly" to "less powerful than a pure class." When the gishes are working well, they really do have great flexibility. They're not the best at magic or weapon DPS, but they're not bad.

Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Sylvanush]

Not appealing at the moment. Need a lot of rework. Many useless abilities. Unconsecuentials and unrelated skills that don't synergize together. Lack of identity. It's a STR race, but the death toggle gives you gain +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, +2 Wisdom, and +3 Perform? When the cores give con, str, and cha? Why wisdom or intelligence? Why not additional +2 str, con, and cha, again +2 to enchantments DC instead of perform? Dhampir powers are similar to those of vampires but without the usual weaknesses. In other words, they do not need to take a lot of damage from light either. Physical Enhancement- A mortal's transformation into a vampire offers a host of physical enhancements, like strength, speed, and agility, and you have inherited some of these enhancements from your undead parent. Your choice of score from either Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution increases by 1 (Dhampir (5e Race) - D&D Wiki, n.d.).

Vampire bite is useless. At low levels, it may be helpful, but at the cap, it is not useful due to the damage amount, and level drain is not effective. Dhampir also developed Vampire Gaze, which can be an alternative to the bite (Dhampir (5e Race) - D&D Wiki, n.d.). It could function similarly to the Dragon Lord's Dragon Roar mechanic, utilizing an enchantment DC and a stat to induce a mind effect or impose a penalty on saves. Ofc sharing cooldown with dragon roar.

Not sure about biting swarm. Scales only with melee power. So, does that mean that gaining a greater benefit needs to be limited to only melee users? Instead, it can be more appealing to every class if you make it a lesser form of dark discorporation. In this form, you gain Invisibility, 15% stacking Incorporeality, and damage from all sources (except for Untyped/Bane damage) is reduced by 25%. Attacking enemies or interacting with objects will revert you to your standard form. Some trees already have dark discorporation, and a 25% reduction is also applied to other trees with the radiant force field. This will help casters, hybrid builds, and even tanks find a reason to think about playing the Dhampir race.

 

[rabidfox]

An option could be if it had a chance to proc a 'bite' on any melee attack for extra damage/effects (different than the active bite attack). Or an off-hand strike mechanic where you fight with a mainhand weapon and the bite becomes your off-hand attack (but given the costs to animate stuff probably would never happen).

 

[droid327]

race which is attempting to meet the needs of more than one play-style.

Dhampir offers very little that's attractive to any style of play other than maybe melee.

Seems like you can't have it both ways?

And if you expect new races to always advance the meta... That's just on you, we were never promised that, and that isn't the standard to whether a new race is worthwhile or not.

There are legit criticisms to make for the race, but "it doesn't make any current S tier builds even more S tier" is not ever a legit one

The question to ask isn't whether new races make the builds we're already playing even better... It's whether new races allow us to do things we couldn't do before, new combinations that open up new rolespace. Even if that new rolespace doesn't reach S tier, as long as it reaches A or even B tier, it's still something people will play

 

[droid327]

An option could be if it had a chance to proc a 'bite' on any melee attack for extra damage/effects (different than the active bite attack). Or an off-hand strike mechanic where you fight with a mainhand weapon and the bite becomes your off-hand attack (but given the costs to animate stuff probably would never happen).

So like a 10% chance for all your melee attacks to return a small amount of health? Lol

 

[John3000]

Hello, everyone! We're here with your first look at the Dhampir player race.

For those unfamiliar, Dhampir are characters with innate connections to death and undeath. Many are half-Vampires one way or another, and have a life-draining bite. So without further ado, let's take a look at DDO's Dhampir!

Starting Features:

• +2 Strength
• Do not need to breathe while underwater
• Feat: Vampiric Bite
  • Single Target Action: You bite target creature at touch range, dealing 1d4 Piercing Damage per Character Level. This scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power (though is not a weapon attack and cannot crit). If that creature is a living and corporeal creature, you heal for 10 + (Heroic Character Level x Constitution Modifier) number of Hit Points from Positive energy. You may use this twice per Rest. (6 second cooldown).

Dhampir Racial Enhancement Tree

• Cores
  • Vampirism: +1 use of Vampiric Bite per rest.
  • +1 STR/CON/CHA
  • Vampirism: +1 use of Vampiric Bite per rest.
  • +1 STR/CON/CHA
  • Vampirism: +1 use of Vampiric Bite per rest.

For the cores, I'd suggest you should use the same logic you used on shifter tree...

Shifter :
Cores

• Extra Shifting: +1 rage use.
• +1 STR/CON/DEX/WIS
• Extra Shifting: +2 rage use.
• +1 STR/CON/DEX/WIS
• Regenerating Shift : +1 rage use every 90 seconds.

so that gives :

Damphir :

• Cores
  • Vampirism: +1 use of Vampiric Bite per rest.
  • +1 STR/CON/CHA
  • Vampirism: +2 use of Vampiric Bite per rest.
  • +1 STR/CON/CHA
  • Regenerating Vampirism: +1 use of Vampiric Bite every 90 seconds.

--

cheers

 

[songswrath]

after looking thing over a few times i made a 2nd version of how i would do this class 1 remove the charges to bit just put in a a 25 to 30 sec cool down. Stike also needs to scale with basic atk speed , not combat style speed so capped at 15% boost. i also think you can copy paste this for iconic just adding in some spell power/ pact die

• +2 Strength
• Do not need to breathe while underwater
• Feat: Vampiric Bite
  • Single Target Action: You bite target creature at touch range, dealing 1d4 Piercing Damage per Character Level. This scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power (though is not a weapon attack and cannot crit). If that creature is a living and corporeal creature, you heal for 10 + (Heroic Character Level x Constitution Modifier) number of Hit Points from Positive energy. You may use this twice per Rest. (6 second cooldown).

Dhampir Racial Enhancement Tree

• Cores
  • Vampirism: +your melee attacks now heal you for 1d2 can be effected by heal/neg heal amp if in undead
  • +1 STR/CON/CHA
  • Vampirism: your melee attacks now heal you for 2d4 can be effected by heal/neg heal amp if in undead
  • +1 STR/CON/CHA
  • Vampirism: your melee attacks now heal you for 4d4 can be effected by heal/neg heal amp if in undead
• Tier 1
  • Draining Bite: Your Vampiric Bite now applies 1 Negative Level. This increases by 1 for every 5 Character Levels you have.
  • Skills: +1/2/3 to Hide, Move Silently, and Jump cost 1ap
  • Energy (Multiselector):
    • Drink in Life: +20 Positive Amplification
    • Drink in Death: +20 Negative Amplification
  • Tenuous Relationship With Death: Your range of unconsciousness extends by 5/10/20 Hit Points. Rank 3: You automatically stabilize when Unconscious (like Warforged do).
  • Innate Protection: +1/2/3 to Saves vs Spells
• Tier 2
  • Lifeblood: When you successfully use your Vampiric Bite on a living target in corporeal form, you gain +3/6/10 melee/ranged and spell power 60 seconds. cost 1 ap pre tier
  • sla invisibility cost 1 ap
  • Embrace Death: Toggle: While Embrace Death is active, you gain 100% critical hit resistance and are able to be healed by Negative Energy. You take 50% healing from Positive, and double damage from Light. (This replaces your natural vulnerability to Light). You are considered Undead rather than your original type for the purposes of most effects. You gain +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, +2 Wisdom, and +3 Perform. Your melee attacks have a 10% chance to heal you for 1d3 with Negative Energy per Character level (max 20). This is a Major Form, and counts as Vampire Form for the purpose of Pale Master. cost 1 ap
  • Energy (Multiselector):
    • Drink in Life: +20 Positive Amplification. (must take same as tier one)
    • Drink in Death: +20 Negative Amplification (must take same as tier one)
  • Cloak of Undeath: +2/+4/+6 MRR. Rank 3: +6 MRR Cap.cost 1 ap pre tier
• Tier 3
  • Fearsome Countenance: Target enemy in Melee range must save or be Cowered (Will save vs. DC 10 + Highest of STR/CON/CHA Mod + Stunning bonuses + Enchantment DC Bonuses ) for 6 seconds. This is considered a Fear effect. On Save: -10% Movement and Attack Speed for 6 seconds. 12 second cooldown.
  • Stunning Visage: +1/2/3to Stun DCs. cost 1 ap pre tier
  • Vampiric Persuasion: +1/2/3 Enchantment DCs. Tier 3 plus 1 to all spell DCs (gives plus 4 in all to Enchantment) cost 1 ap pre tier
  • Deathly Bite: adds to your bite.Strip the vitality from your enemies, dealing 3 Constitution damage and reducing their Physical and Magical Resistance Ratings by 10, does not stack with lgs effect cost 2 ap
  • Undead Augmentation I: Enhance your Undead Forms.
    Passive
    • While in a Shroud,
  • Pick oneof the following abilities that applies while in a Shroud. cost 2 ap
    • Deathly Tough - +25 Maximum Hitpoints, +5 PRR
    • Deathly Resistance - +15 Magical Resistance Rating, +2 to all Saves
    • Inflict Weariness - Your attacks inflict 2-9 (1d8+1) points of Negative Energy damage to a living target. This scales with 100% Spell Power. Your Vorpal Melee Hits cause Energy Drain, inflicting 1 Negative Level on victims.
    • Haunting in the Dark - +2 Assassinate DCs, +1 Sneak Attack Dice
    • Ghost in the Wind - +5% Incorporeal Miss Chance. stacking
    • Deathly Power - +10 to Negative Energy Spellpower.
    • Beacon of Necromancy - +2 Necromancy DC
    • Beacon of Enchantment - +2 Enchantment DC
    • Undead Chill - +15% bonus to Cold Absorption. You no longer take extra damage from Light. (Note you will still take double damage from Sunburst.)
    • Undead Shock - +15% bonus to Electric Absorption. You no longer take extra damage from Light. (Note you will still take double damage from Sunburst.)
    • Unhallowed Touch - You gain Ghost Touch on all attacks, +5 Hide and Move Silently
  • undead cunning you receive +2 to hit damage melee/ranged attacks, +10 universal spell power cost 2 ap
• Tier 4
  • Ascendant Bite: Your Vampiric Bite now applies 5 stacks of Vulnerability and deals double the Piercing damage. If the target of your Vampiric Bite is Cowered, living and corporeal they must make a Fortitude Saving Throw (DC 16 + Highest of STR/CON/CHA Mod + Stunning Bonuses + Enchantment Bonuses) or die.
  • Undead Augmentation II select a 2nd choice from pick from list cost 1 ap
  • Dark Discorporation: Select your Bat Form!
    • Dark Discorporation - (as per the Warlock spell... Because Pale Masters should get to turn into bats and float away).
    • Reactive Discorporation - When your HP drops below30% of your maximum, you automatically cast Dark Discorporation on yourself, turning into a swarm of dark fluttering bats for10 seconds. This spell will still end if you attack as per the original version of the spell. This may only trigger once every 60 seconds.
  • Biting Swarm: one ap per tier
    • Deals +10%/+20%/+30% Damage. Diving Attack Strike: Melee bat Cleave Attack: You and your Hunting bats attack as one against a group Your Hunting bat swill follow up for an additional 3d6/6d6/8d6 damage that scales with 200% of melee or ranged power, whichever is higher. Your Hunting bat also stun the target, causing them to become Helpless. Your target is slowed by 30% for 10 seconds whether they make the saving throw or not.
    • Trip DC: 12+ Highest of STR/CON/CHA Mod + stunning bonuses.
    • Cooldown 20 seconds,
    • You can't use this attack without line of sight to your target. The Hunting bats will always hit the target of this attack, even if the actual attack misses or is out of range.

 

[Terranigma]

Right now the character I heavily play is a Bladeforged 15 Sacred Fist/3 Monk/2 Warlock. Great self preservation, capable melee, has a few noteworthy debuffs to bring for large fights (Taint the Aura, Jade Strike, Knock on the Sky). I'm actually contemplating doing it as a Dhampir 15 Alchemist/3 Monk/2 Warlock, as it gives a bit more debuff potential and analogous ways to heal (Reconstruction -> Harm Admixture, Shards of Mechanus -> Darkhallow, gains Boon of Undeath and Eye of Mabar becomes functional). However, I'm waiting to see what rolls out with the Dark Bargainer Iconic being I'm already going to have Warlock in the mix. Unlike the general sentiment that seems to be in this thread about Dhampir, I think I would find a notable use for the race.

Also, after playing around a bit more with Rush of Bats and Biting Swarm, because it doesn't cause a melee strike after the charge, there are situations where it can result in a total loss of overall damage opposed to just straight up auto-attacking.