U74 Preview 2: Iconic Dhampir Dark Bargainer Warlock

[Marneylaughlin]

I after creation at lev 15, have no armor at all. Not sure if this is a bug?

 

[Anurakh]

Wait, does the iconic absolutely have to take one of these dark gifts feats that I personally hate? You've just killed the iconic for me.

No, please. Provide an alternative, the flat Toughness feat, for example, or Mental Toughness. Not particularly exciting, but at least you're not forcing us to take one of these aberrations. I don't mind these types of options existing for those who like them, but I hate them and I don't want to be forced to take them just because I play a race.

Also, what's up with caster iconics? First, the Chaosmancer and having to spend 19 racial points to get rid of Bad Surges. Now this one with these types of aberrant feats. Please, casters are severely penalized these days. Stop beating them up.

 

[Anurakh]

When considering sneak dice vs imbue dice for a warlock, they're both limited. Imbue only matters if you go ES tree. Sneak will only matter if you do ES tree while meleeing/ranging or if you grab Paranoia from shadowdancer (which is kinda fun with warlock). So for a bunch of warlock builds, neither would do anything.

yup!

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

Being tied to specific itemization is terrible design. There's also 32 levels of gameplay before you can use it.

As I said I agree, but I can't imagine they will change it and allow light and negative to have a 9% higher potential due these items.

For heroic/epic it also unfortunately boxes you into itemization as well, but at least it's not all rare.

 

[Shall]

When is a light/alignment 9% spell critical chance epic past life stance going to be added to support Dark Bargainer? That's quite the gap from elemental/sonic damage types, and warlocks are already mid for damage dealing at endgame in higher difficulties.

I could see a feat added to the primal sphere since it doesn't have any caster past life feats just colors of the queen. Something like esoteric criticals: you gain 3% critical chance per stack for light/alignment, positive, negative/poison and force/physical/untyped spells.

On an unrelated note do you know if the problem with alignment damage not properly getting critical damage bonuses from Isle of Dread augments been fixed or at least acknowledged yet, that severely impacts this iconic.

Wait, does the iconic absolutely have to take one of these dark gifts feats that I personally hate? You've just killed the iconic for me.

No, please. Provide an alternative, the flat Toughness feat, for example, or Mental Toughness. Not particularly exciting, but at least you're not forcing us to take one of these aberrations. I don't mind these types of options existing for those who like them, but I hate them and I don't want to be forced to take them just because I play a race.

Also, what's up with caster iconics? First, the Chaosmancer and having to spend 19 racial points to get rid of Bad Surges. Now this one with these types of aberrant feats. Please, casters are severely penalized these days. Stop beating them up.

It looks like it. I personally don't like randomness like that so I'll probably be taking this activated one and just leaving it off my bar pretending it doesn't exist.

• Minion of the Eldritch
  • Your soul has touched something beyond the planes, and a connection has formed there.
  • Activate: You gain +5 Spell Power per Character Level, and +1% Spell Critical Damage for every 2 Character Levels you have for 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
  • When you use this ability, there is a chance the Eldritch Being you reach out to will grow tired of your petitions and decide to punish you instead. This chance increases each time you use this ability between rests.
    • Punishment: Activate: You lose 3 Spell Power per Character Level, and 1% Spell Critical Damage for every 2 Character Levels you have for 30 seconds.

 

[droid327]

• SLA: Prey on Fear: Target enemy at touch range takes 1d6+2 Evil Damage per Caster Level. Additionally, if the target is inside a Dread Mist zone it deals 1d4 Evil Damage for each stack of Growing Dread that creature has. Will save for half damage on each effect. 4 Spell Points. (Lv. 1 Necromancy). 6sec cooldown.

Worry the scaling on this is too low. Yes, its only a T2 ability, but it also requires significant ramp-up to get those Dread stacks up, especially since Blast is a lot slower. 30 stacks represents something like 20 secs of ramp-up, which means its only going to be fully relevant on bosses or in raids.

1d4 * 30 = 75 average damage. 1d6+2 * 34 = 187 damage. So even at max stacks, its only adding 40% to what's already scaled as a T2 ability (cf Shadowblade abilities in FI, which are junk at 1d6+2). Or another way to frame it that's level-agnostic...full 30 stacks will do the same extra damage as a Fireball cast at L10 (though no AOE).

I'm assuming this scales 100% on Evil spellpower too.

• Vampiric Blast: Eldritch Essence Stance: +1 Eldritch Blast Die, +1 Pact Die. While using Focused Blast shape, your Eldritch Blasts heal you for 1d3 Hit Points in Positive Energy. If you have Deathly Bite, this is instead Negative Energy.

Could this be its own EB Shape instead?

Having it be an Essence (afaict) means it competes with Utterdark, which all DB locks are doubtlessly going to take so they can use Light & Alignment as their OSFA spellpower. Turning this on would drop you back into Force damage, which would severely neuter your DPS unless you specced dual element anyway, defeating the whole purpose of having a OSFA spellpower.

Having it be a single-target Shape means you could keep your spellpower alignment, and simply be sacrificing AOE for healing, useful against bosses.

• SLA: Crushing Dread: Target enemy at touch range takes 1d6+8 Evil Damage per Caster Level. Additionally, if the target is inside a Dread Mist zone it deals 1d20 Evil Damage for each stack of Growing Dread that creature has. Will save for half damage on each effect. (Lv. 4 Necromancy). 8 Spell Points, 15sec cooldown.

This scales better than the lower tier ability

• • Form of the Lord Vampire: While you have Embrace Death toggled, you gain +1 Enchantment and Necromancy DC, +10 Negative and Force Spell Power, and +10 Spell Penetration.

Not Evil power too?

Variable	Acquired at Level	Dark Powers
1st-level Spell	Level 2	NEW: Dread Mist: Create a small area of Mist that lasts for 20 seconds. Enemies inside the mist have their movement slowed by 20%, -2 to Will Saving Throws, and take 1d2 Evil Damage per Caster Level every 2 seconds. (Necromancy spell, 5sec cooldown, MCL 20. 10 SP) Casts fast.
2nd-level Spell	Level 5	Lesser Death Aura
First Special Ability	Level 6	Mist Favored: Your Dread Mists' damage changes to 1d3 per Caster Level. This increases to 1d4 at Character Level 12.
3rd-level Spell	Level 9	Negative Energy Burst
4th-level Spell	Level 14	Death Aura
Second Special Ability	Level 15	Call on the Mists: Enemies in a small area who are currently affected by Dread Mist must make a saving throw (DC 15 + highest of INT or CHA mod + Necromancy Bonuses) or die, being consumed by the mists. 20 Spell Points, 25 second cooldown.
6th-level Spell	Level 19	Greater Death Aura

Wow, these are really good pact spells. Sucks to be you, Abyss Lock LOL. Between this and Bite, you're gonna have a whole mess of healing in Shroud form (on top of Temp HP), where other Locks are really healing-limited.

It seems like its really encouraging a "face tank" style of Lock play, where you stay in your Mist zone and blast away. That's going to frustrate a lot of Cone locks when things start circling around you...depending how big Mist zones are, I guess, and how easily you can circle kite in them. Great for Chain locks that can already hit beside/behind, though. And if more than 3 enemies are in your Mist, then just Call on the Mists to thin the herd.

 

[Anurakh]

It looks like it. I personally don't like randomness like that so I'll probably be taking this activated one and just leaving it off my bar pretending it doesn't exist.

• Minion of the Eldritch
  • Your soul has touched something beyond the planes, and a connection has formed there.
  • Activate: You gain +5 Spell Power per Character Level, and +1% Spell Critical Damage for every 2 Character Levels you have for 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
  • When you use this ability, there is a chance the Eldritch Being you reach out to will grow tired of your petitions and decide to punish you instead. This chance increases each time you use this ability between rests.
    • Punishment: Activate: You lose 3 Spell Power per Character Level, and 1% Spell Critical Damage for every 2 Character Levels you have for 30 seconds.

Yes, this and Leap are two feats you can take and pretend you never took them by never using them. But it's a waste; the iconic one isn't that good. I didn't expect much from an iconic caster, but now I don't expect anything anymore. Total disappointment.

 

[Lotoc]

Wait, does the iconic absolutely have to take one of these dark gifts feats that I personally hate? You've just killed the iconic for me.

No, please. Provide an alternative, the flat Toughness feat, for example, or Mental Toughness. Not particularly exciting, but at least you're not forcing us to take one of these aberrations. I don't mind these types of options existing for those who like them, but I hate them and I don't want to be forced to take them just because I play a race.

Also, what's up with caster iconics? First, the Chaosmancer and having to spend 19 racial points to get rid of Bad Surges. Now this one with these types of aberrant feats. Please, casters are severely penalized these days. Stop beating them up.

it'll most likely be a free bonus feat and you can just take an active one and never use it thus effectively not having the feat.

 

[Anurakh]

it'll most likely be a free bonus feat and you can just take an active one and never use it thus effectively not having the feat.

As if the iconic character were so good that it forced us to take feats that wouldn't do anything at all. Personally, I'm not excited at all, sorry.

And why is all this nonsense always in the iconic casters? First chaosmancer and now this.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Why sneak dice and not imbue dice really

It must be pact or blast (or both, better) dice really, not imbue.

Also, i think Vampire Bite must be ranged for Warlock (like Bat's Swarm, fly to target, bite and return with blood for HP gain ) and scale with 100-150% SP, not with MP/RP.

 

[rabidfox]

We wanted to create an Iconic that really heavily encouraged Eldritch Blast use, but this is still an outstanding point. We'd like to add other ways to generate Growing Dread that don't necessarily rely on Eldritch Blast, but also aren't just better than using Eldritch Blast. (For instance, "on melee hit" would generate Growing Dread far faster, so why use Eldritch Blast at that point?). We're open to ideas on this one.

With a 1 second ICD per stack gain, wouldn't pretty much every other attack type (melee/ranged/spells) be pretty much on par with warlock's blast rate?

 

[Anurakh]

It must be pact or blast (or both, better) dice really, not imbue.

That is right. Imbue only beneficts to Enlightened Spirit, which is the complete opposite of a dark bargainer who plays with powerful dark entities. Pact dice benefits all warlocks, including this one.

Also, i think Vampire Bite must be ranged for Warlock (like Bat's Swarm, fly to target, bite and return with blood for HP gain ) and scale with 100-150% SP, not with MP/RP.

Right again!

 

[Christhemiss]

fyi this is a FR race so we get the cool dieties

 

[Lotoc]

That is right. Imbue only beneficts to Enlightened Spirit, which is the complete opposite of a dark bargainer who plays with powerful dark entities. Pact dice benefits all warlocks, including this one.


Right again!

Overall issue though with it conflicting with ES thematically is this iconic seems to want to be actually casting touch range spells which will disrupt the blast sequence.
By function of the design it seems to really just want to be an auralock caster rather than traditionally blasting.
(At the same time, having an evil pact means you want to be investing heavily in radiance- ES is the warlock tree most rewarded by that.)

Can the 18 core of ES be changed to give passive imbue dice and the ES form gives 10 light + 10 universal spellpower in the place of those dice?

 

[DBZ]

ES tree just remove the useless pet enhancements add 9 imbue dice along with core changes

Still not even close to an eladrin

 

[Anurakh]

fyi this is a FR race so we get the cool dieties

Cool dieties? Only cool for melee, no caster. See what I'm saying? The base race, which should support all playstyles, is entirely melee-oriented. The iconic race, which is supposed to be a caster... well.

 

[Anurakh]

Overall issue though with it conflicting with ES thematically is this iconic seems to want to be actually casting touch range spells which will disrupt the blast sequence.
By function of the design it seems to really just want to be an auralock caster rather than traditionally blasting.
(At the same time, having an evil pact means you want to be investing heavily in radiance- ES is the warlock tree most rewarded by that.)

Can the 18 core of ES be changed to give passive imbue dice and the ES form gives 10 light + 10 universal spellpower in the place of those dice?

Yes, but because they're focusing the iconic character wrong. This iconic character shouldn't be focused on close-range attacks, shouldn't have special attacks calculated with melee power (at most, use a multi-selector), they're forcing it into something it shouldn't be.

Instead of keeping the bite of the normal race, it should summon a cloud of flying bats to do the work for it, or a vampire spawn, or something like that.

And if they wanted to make a melee tree, then they shouldn't focus the iconic on an evil idea and design it specifically to work with ES.

 

[Lotoc]

I really really hope that Cursekeeper / the next epic destiny themed around warlock is also coming with this expansion.
Radiant/Nullification have been getting paired up since Abyss Pact and then Dark Apostate and now again with Dark Bargainer and it's a very poorly supported combination in current epic destinies.
Light/alignment and Negative are both lacking a third destiny tree, an evil damage pact doesn't fit well with a draconic ruin intensified build, doesn't have a compelling epic strike option, doesn't have a well budgetted mantle option.
This is much the same issue DA faces in epics, but for warlocks this is even worse.

 

[Anurakh]

I could see a feat added to the primal sphere since it doesn't have any caster past life feats just colors of the queen. Something like esoteric criticals: you gain 3% critical chance per stack for light/alignment, positive, negative/poison and force/physical/untyped spells.

I'd like them to stop marginalizing non-specialist casters for once and make the current feat universal. After all, Doublestrike and Doubleshot work for all melee and ranged weapons, respectively.

And even more tiresome for generalist casters would be if, if they had two feats, they were in the same sphere.

 

[droid327]

With a 1 second ICD per stack gain, wouldn't pretty much every other attack type (melee/ranged/spells) be pretty much on par with warlock's blast rate?

Well that means Warlock only gets 2 procs per ~3 secs, since the second blast of each triplet would be on the CD still

So anything hitting at 1 sec would be 50% faster at building

fyi this is a FR race so we get the cool dieties

Then so is base Dhampir, huh? Finally have a race for a Silvanus build in Heroic