U74 Preview 2: Iconic Dhampir Dark Bargainer Warlock

[ChickenMobile]

Wait, does the iconic absolutely have to take one of these dark gifts feats that I personally hate? You've just killed the iconic for me.

No, they are completely optional. You can also freely change these feats at Fred.

 

[Marneylaughlin]

I’m running into a problem that already killed my character. I blast, but then I cannot blast or use any spells it’s like if I lost connection nothing works.

 

[Mary]

OK, hot take maybe - the old Undead Warlock pact, it’s like a vampire with no fangs. Can we either fix this thing or yeet it into the Abyss? The spells are all over the place, with barely any consistent healing options. The stance is about as useful as a rust monster in a blacksmith shop, especially since 99.9999% of players just pick Dhampir now if they want that undead flavor. Newbies might stumble into the old pact, thinkin’ it’s cool, only to brick their character. Is this a hot take, am I wrong? Y’all tell me, does anyone actually vibe with that old undead pact, or is it just sittin’ there like a curse nobody wants?

And what's with all the melee on a warlock? Devs, why are we pushin’ melee-only abilities for warlocks like it’s a thing? That’s like givin’ a wizard a greatsword and tellin’ ‘em to go ham. Who’s out there rockin’ Acolyte of the Skin? I’ve played on every server, hardcore, you name it, and I ain’t never seen a melee warlock that wasn’t some multiclass melee build leanin’ on warlock levels for power. Most Warlocks do ranged spell DPS, aura or blasts. Melee builds might use warlock levels but ive never seen a pure warlock melee, Warlocks should have a toggle melee, ranged, or spell, so players can build their vibe. Let’s make warlocks versatile, not mid-tier melee no one plays.

I broke down Van Richten’s Guide in a previous post, so here, I’m wonderin’ about Dust to Dust, the reskinned Disintegrate. Ravenloft’s all about imprisonment, Barovia’s a cosmic jail cell where Strahd and the Dark Powers are the not-so-friendly wardens. Doesn’t a Trap the Soul-style spell make more sense, lore-wise? That gothic horror vibe keeping them trapped not just zappin to ash.

Barovia’s whole deal reminds me of that classic Star Trek episode The Gamesters of Triskelion you know, the one where Kirk and the crew are forced to fight as thralls while some computer brains gamble on ‘em. Pure chaos, peak Trek. Every time I’m in Ravenloft, dodgin’ Strahd’s minions, I’m thinkin’ of Gamesters of Triskelion.

Fix warlock damage, give them back their dmg die in heroics and remove the feats and make them auto-granted so they can take other useful feats so they can actually do good dps endgame and we'll be vibing. Warlock is my favorite class, you all know that. I mained a warlock in my last TTRPG, I played one in BG3 and I main one here in DDO, my minion enchanter warlock. I love that there's a warlock Iconic - please make it good. My suggestions might hot takes, but maybe not - please let me know everyone where you think im right, wrong, and let the Devs know how you feel - its time warlock dps was fixed after being nerfed for years and its time we get all the pacts to be viable and fun and not doa. Anyway just wanted to talk about this for a sec. thanks. see you all.

 

[droid327]

And what's with all the melee on a warlock? Devs, why are we pushin’ melee-only abilities for warlocks like it’s a thing?

I sure wouldn't mind if Dark Barg followed the same feat based EB progression as AotS, so multi class was more flexible. Or even better if Dark Powers pact could follow it, though I suspect the system wouldn't allow for it to separate progression by pact

 

[ChickenMobile]

Played around with new iconic, and other than the things that are currently bugged (which will write up a bug report for), I think its pretty good.
Removing charges and upping healing on Vampiric Bite was definitely a welcome change.

Suggestions:

• The prepared spell version of Dread Mist costs too much Spell Points (30) to be casting at level 1. There isn't much point in adding metamagics on top either because of this. The SLA version in Dark Bargainer's tree is 4sp which is good.
• The Area of Dread Mist seems very small. I think the idea is to CC mobs with Tentacles or Mass Hold and cast it on them while blasting? A Clothy/Light Armor caster generally don't like being close in melee with the bad guys and there are 2 Touch range Spells put in there. Party play with a tank I don't see much issue however.
• Dark Gifts - many of these are just too detrimental to use and can't see anyone taking... but absolute props giving us something different.
  • Echoing Soul: chance on being hit to get CC'd - definite ouchy and worse than very bad Wild Surges! Though the skills bonuses on this are actually insane.
  • Living Shadow is tempting, but melee's often rely on crits for damage, and -15% damage 20% of the time is too huge a hit
    It seems to hit enemies nearby I'm not targeting, like it is hit-scanning like a ranged attack? Shadowdancer's Improved Imbuement doesn't appear to increase melee distance further. Animation is cool though!
  • Minion of the Eldritch - this one I think is great, for around 4 uses in a quest... as it currently is, it is giving +150 SP and +150% spell crit dmg at level 30 - definitely not what the label says. The detriment (info: the opposite of the benefits, -150SP & -150% crit dmg) lasts for 30 seconds, which IMO is too long. It should be around 12 seconds, like the time of the buff.
  • Mist Walker: With Bats charge in enhancements, there's no reason to take this. The reflex and incorp bonuses only last for a couple of seconds and the negative (-50% speed & -6 DEX/STR) sucks if you are using this dash to get away from monsters.
  • Touch of Death: is probably the least detrimental choice here. Actually a GREAT choice if solo-ing and using negative spells / Vampiric Blast to heal. It would be awful for group-play however (unless the healer uses negative, and I already complain about Warforged not taking Healer's Friend lol).
    It is currently giving more bonus and detriment than it should however. (+40?)
  • Web Touched: ~ wasn't able to test

 

[rabidfox]

I totally want to run this as a 20 warlock blaster build. I could see playing it as a mutliclass gish build with some warlock for auralock/death aura mixed with other classes to up physical damage. Not off-hand seeing anything about the race that'd get to me burn a LR+1 to go pure on some other class; anyone itching to do 20 non-warlock on it?

 

[Edrein]

And what's with all the melee on a warlock? Devs, why are we pushin’ melee-only abilities for warlocks like it’s a thing? That’s like givin’ a wizard a greatsword and tellin’ ‘em to go ham. Who’s out there rockin’ Acolyte of the Skin? I’ve played on every server, hardcore, you name it, and I ain’t never seen a melee warlock that wasn’t some multiclass melee build leanin’ on warlock levels for power. Most Warlocks do ranged spell DPS, aura or blasts. Melee builds might use warlock levels but ive never seen a pure warlock melee, Warlocks should have a toggle melee, ranged, or spell, so players can build their vibe. Let’s make warlocks versatile, not mid-tier melee no one plays.

I think this is a design flaw in that 3.5e did actually support melee warlocks with a handful of design abilities: Hideous Blow (melee strike with EB), Eldritch Glaives (turning your EB effectively into a weapon), etc.

DDO however doesn't mimic this. Enlightened Spirit has a decent platform for melee, but it lacks native crit support like other melee trees, even gish trees like EK or WP. Honestly, I'd like to see Enlightened Spirit get a bit of a glow up while they are eyeing a warlock iconic. (Though Abyss and Acolyte of the Skin both need a lot more love.)

Both the base Dhampir and Iconic have some synergy with Acolyte but Acolyte itself isn't good enough to benefit from the racial fear effect.

 

[droid327]

We'd like to add other ways to generate Growing Dread that don't necessarily rely on Eldritch Blast, but also aren't just better than using Eldritch Blast. (For instance, "on melee hit" would generate Growing Dread far faster, so why use Eldritch Blast at that point?). We're open to ideas on this one.
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On cast should be safe enough and would open it up to casters at least - there's some obvious lineup with blight caster, eg

On crit might be the martial version to keep it in line with blast stacking rate, even if paired with ES aura ticks

 

[droid327]

Not off-hand seeing anything about the race that'd get to me burn a LR+1 to go pure on some other class; anyone itching to do 20 non-warlock on it?

Maybe a pure rogue build? Sneak dice and self healing dovetail with that class nicely. Idk if it's worth burning a heart just to skip to L15 though when regular dhamp does the same thing though, and that's true for any other non lock build since all the unique stuff right now is lock only, except for like +2 int and Lord vampire form and the questionable Gifts

 

[Edrein]

• Tier 2
  • SLA: Prey on Fear: Target enemy at touch range takes 1d6+2 Evil Damage per Caster Level. Additionally, if the target is inside a Dread Mist zone it deals 1d4 Evil Damage for each stack of Growing Dread that creature has. Will save for half damage on each effect. 4 Spell Points. (Lv. 1 Necromancy). 6sec cooldown.

Any chance this could count as Chill Touch if you touch an undead target and cower them?

• Tier 3
  • Vampiric Blast: Eldritch Essence Stance: +1 Eldritch Blast Die, +1 Pact Die. While using Focused Blast shape, your Eldritch Blasts heal you for 1d3 Hit Points in Positive Energy. If you have Deathly Bite, this is instead Negative Energy.

I'll be greedy and ask if this could also extend to Aura shaped blast or even the Claw Shape while playing an Acolyte of the Skin. Feels weird to me that the melee blast shapes don't benefit from the risk involved.

• Tier 4
  • Form of the Lord Vampire: While you have Embrace Death toggled, you gain +1 Enchantment and Necromancy DC, +10 Negative and Force Spell Power, and +10 Spell Penetration.

Again, another greedy ask but could we get a smidgen of something for the few melee-locks that exist? Even a smidge of MP would be appreciated.

• What does the healing in Vampiric Blast scale with?
  • Positive/Negative Healing Amp, primarily. It doesn't scale with Spell Power, as that'd be a colossally larger number - It's meant to be closer to weapons' Vampirism.

Does it at least crit with spell critical?

 

[BigDeepsJohnson]

Got some ideas on how i want to run this non-lock but need the Growing Dread to build stacks off offensive spells as well as the Prey on Fear/ Crushing Dread not being touch range and it's fine. The sneak dice don't make sense for a heavily lock focused race, perhaps change it to spellpower or even further scaling the SLA dice. Those changes can easily open up apostate/wizard alternatives

 

[Alternative]

Touch range bite on a caster in r10 sounds risky. Also whats the past life?

 

[Qubert]

My favorite Warlock pact to play is Abyssal and this fixes a lot of the issues I have with that pact. Really happy about the pact and the Iconic tree overall. I did some testing from around levels 15 and 34. Here are some of my general thoughts and hopes of changes.

Vampiric Bite:
Love this as a CD instead of charges. For ES and melee players this is nice. From a Caster POV the recovery time from Bite to Blast is to long. So not sure if caster will use this.
Dark Gift Feat:
Really cool idea. I always enjoy a risk vs reward system and there are options here for players who don't want to take some of the riskier options.
Cores:
This is a nice change. 1 Warlock splash players are going to enjoy the choice of getting Sneak Attack Dice.

Dread Mist:
This one is interesting. While the zone for the mist is smaller then I think players will want there are some nice things about it.

1. Damage is immediate and starts its dot
2. Scaling is decent for casters
3. Not intrusive on the eyes like other mist/fog spells in the game.
4. Fast casting makes use of SLA and Pact spell to make a "bigger" area

Manipulate the Mists, Prey on Fear, and Crushing Dread
I have some mixed feelings about this. From a combat perspective it was hard to build stacks without CC and with the zone being smaller. While Warlocks have great CC options the payoff is hardly noticed. I imagine raids and high skull players will be able to utilize this more from the casually leveling you generally don't build enough stacks to cash in.

With Prey on Fear and Crushing Dread both being Single target it is hard sell to have both imo. I appreciate that these are unlinked in the tree so I can pick Crushing Dread and be on my way. Also these are ranged in Lam but the notes say melee range. I imagine this is a bug

Some neat things I tested with Dread mist and Growing Dread

1. All blast shapes worked in building Growing Dread stacks (I hope this is intentional)
2. Special Eldritch attacks like Eldritch Wave from SE and Eldritch Burst/Blast from ES add 3/1 stacks respectfully

Epic Destinies:
Would love to have EA and PA mantles proc Eldritch Blasts. My dream would be Magus as well but I would understand that doesn't align with the goal of the ED or Iconic.

Bugs:
Christhemiss Did a great job laying them out as I experienced all these as well. Just want to add a couple more that I saw.

1. Call on the Mist Pact ability breaks your character. You are unable to attack, cast spell, interact, or even recall. I had to hard close DDO to get my stuff back.
2. I noticed while leveling I got a level 10 feat called Resistance of the Dark Powers. It grants 5 Sonic Resistance. Not sure if this is a bug or not since the Lam notes don't list it.

 

[Svirfneblin]

1. Not bad, not bad at all. Good to see some + Warlock Dice. Good thematic stuff I likey.
2. For starter ability can you do an option for +2 Int or +2 Cha or +1 each?
3. Core 1, 3 and 5 can you add a selector for the Sneak stuff or + to Evil Spell Power?
4. Add some more Neg Amplification somewhere?
5. The touch range requirement for stuff kinda bites.
6. Add an Evil Imbue and some Imbue Dice?
7. Have your Dark Power reward your pact with them and encourage your adventuring by increasing the temp HP you get from False Life spell and Feigned Health.
8. Are you going to un nerf or change anything in the Warlock Class at all?
9. How about auto granting Epic Eldrich and Epic Pact dice feats if you have 18+ levels of Warlock?

 

[Edrein]

Also it feels a bit odd to me that you dropped the Charm stuff for the iconic when warlock would have synergy with ES's bonuses. Rather than a charm could we possibly get a pet wolf/thrall? Something like an undead companion might be neat.

 

[erethizon1]

The vampiric blast essence stance needs to work on shapes other than the default single target 'eldricth blast focused' shape. Anyone running any warlock build beyond level 2 or 3 will be using either the AoE shapes (cone, chain, aura, eye beam) or enervating shadow for single target attacks.

Yes, this is important. At first I thought the vampiric blast sounded pretty nice. Then I realized it didn't work with cone shape which means I would be getting no vampiric benefit 99.99% of the time. Only on the rarest of boss battles where I bother to switch to the single target blast would the vampiric effect actually work. That is quite disappointing.

 

[Driaza]

What is the Past Life bonus for this?

 

[Dalsheel]

Form of the Lord Vampire: While you have Embrace Death toggled, you gain +1 Enchantment and Necromancy DC, +10 Negative and Force Spell Power, and +10 Spell Penetration.

This should also work with Channel the Abyss. Abyssal Pact is the least used and needs some love.

 

[SquireZed]

can you say your reasoning for not being like every other race and only getting+1 to stats not getting 2?

No negative for a tradeoff. Basically just splitting the 2 STR from the base race. Personally I'd prefer 2 in a single stat, of course, but no negatives is a pretty strong thing. Well, in theory, it depends what the negative would be, some negatives are write-offs.

 

[SquireZed]

Completely disappointing. What are abilities scaling with melee power doing on a warlock? DCs calculated with stunning bonuses? The warlock is a caster! His eldritch blast works with spellpower. How much melee power is a warlock going to have?

It's a holdover from the race's ability, I'm sure. Hopefully it will get tuned for the iconic to scale with something else. Then again, the bite kind of makes sense since it is a melee ability, and Rush of Bats is a charge that puts you into melee, so... maybe just skip Rush of Bats/Biting Swarm if you're opposed since I don't think it's typically my warlocks' normal playstyle to zerg into melee (lightlock excepted).