U75 Preview 2: Chill of Ravenloft Loot

[Beast]

Add tokens with of random named loot, like the quartermaster's stuff from Saltmarsh, or the cubes i don't remember the name, from Keep on the borderlands.
Set a price on named items and then make them purchasable.. so we will not struggle, we will have still to farm but we can choose what we want, make the price a little higher and keep the random loot on.
Clearly purchased items will not have mythic boost, but still you can get it for sure.
This will lower the stress of us players.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

The system looks great at a high level. I will need to drill down into the details further.

If you don't update cannith crafting with the expansion I will be extremely disappointed considering it's just adding 4 shards that existed previously in a slightly different form and this is a completely new crafting system, albeit highly leveraging IOD crafting.

Can the salt effect match LGS/Threats effect rather than the IOD effect?

As mentioned earlier in the thread IOD light/alignment properly works for light, but doesn't boost alignment. Please take a look at that and ideally fix it for both systems, but at a minimum for the Chill of Ravenloft system.

Looking forward to the update!

 

[Ungermax]

@SteelStar

Hi mate

I appreciate that there is a level of transparancy in your preview notes, this I think goes some way towards addressing recent concerns.

Up front I think the biggest issue we are seeing is that it is still too difficult to get the named item you want. This can be seen from the formula as mentioned below:


Additionally, You have a 10/16/33% chance (on Normal/Hard Elite) to get something from the Named Item Table.

• Once you have reached the Named Item Table, you have a chance to get one of the following:
  • Standard Named Item A
  • Standard Named Item B
  • Standard Named Item C
  • Standard Named Item D
  • Sun/Moon Augment 1
  • Sun/Moon Augment 2
  • Sun/Moon Augment 3

I am not going to comment on the "rare loot" subject because that is a completely separate thing to my point here.

But if we look at the above, the issue is that Sun/Moon augments compete with regular named loot. It is fine that we want this pack to have a lot of playability. If I run elite, I have a 33% chance to get a named item OR an augment and this by definition makes all the items we want FEEL like an ultra rare item even though it technically isnt.

So my proposal is that Sun/Moon augments should NOT be classed as named items in terms of the loot. A given chest should give a chance to give a named item AND a Sun/Moon augment, but maybe not 10/16/33%. If you revised this and said each chest has a 10/15/20% chance of a named item and a 3/5/10% chance of a Sun/Moon augment, this would drastically change the whole thing.

Sun/Moon augments should not compete with named items in chests.

The very nature of a crafting system is that it breeds replayability as we *should* want to get a full spectrum of gear from this system. Or as close to it as it allows. But this, at face value, looks like a LOOOOOOOOT of work to get what you actually want.

If you dont want to change the numbers then you could just make it so each quest has multiple identical end chests. But there are too many items competing with each other in these chests and therefor we enter the obscure rare vs "rare" vs actually rare vs not worth the grind scenario once more regardless of any actual categories.

 

[The Blonde]

First expansion I won't be buying.

- Augments still on same table as named items.
- Rare loot persists (THREE pieces per chest)

I wish you all the best.

And to clarify, both of these problems (read: practices) are man-made and easily fixable (if one wanted to fix them, that is):

You move the augments to a separate table, so they don't compete with the named items. Then you downgrade most rare named items and rare augments to regular tier (because nobody wants 40 rare items in an expansion) to complement the above, leaving a single rare item/augment per chest.

Done.
Except that won't get you as many rerolls, will it.
I guess we'll see how the scales tip.

 

[Taleisin]

@SteelStar

Hi mate

I appreciate that there is a level of transparancy in your preview notes, this I think goes some way towards addressing recent concerns.

Up front I think the biggest issue we are seeing is that it is still to difficult to get the named item you want. This can be seen from the formula as mentioned below:


Additionally, You have a 10/16/33% chance (on Normal/Hard Elite) to get something from the Named Item Table.

• Once you have reached the Named Item Table, you have a chance to get one of the following:
  • Standard Named Item A
  • Standard Named Item B
  • Standard Named Item C
  • Standard Named Item D
  • Sun/Moon Augment 1
  • Sun/Moon Augment 2
  • Sun/Moon Augment 3

I am not going to comment on the "rare loot" subject because that is a completely separate thing to my point here.

But if we look at the above, the issue is that Sun/Moon augments compete with regular named loot. It is fine that we want this pack to have a lot of playability. If I run elite, I have a 33% chance to get a named item OR an augment and this by definition makes all the items we want FEEL like an ultra rare item even though it technically isnt.

So my proposal is that Sun/Moon augments should NOT be classed as named items in terms of the loot. A given chest should give a chance to give a named item AND a Sun/Moon augment, but maybe not 10/16/33%. If you revised this and said each chest has a 10/15/20% chance of a named item and a 3/5/10% chance of a Sun/Moon augment, this would drastically change the whole thing.

Sun/Moon augments should not compete with named items in chests.

The very nature of a crafting system is that it breed replayability as we *should* want to get a full spectrum of gear from this system. Or as close to it as it allows. But this, at face value, looks like a LOOOOOOOOT of work to get what you actually want.

If you dont want to change the numbers then you could just make it so each quest has multiple identical end chests. But there are too many items competing with each other in these chests and therefor we enter the obscure rare vs "rare" vs actually rare vs not worth the grind scenario once more regardless of any actual categories.

Yup, the Sun/Moon augments should be treated like filigree. Make them their own roll possibility. Just another expansion where I won’t get what I need - especially with MANY alts.

Also, can you make wilderness chests have items similar to Dread? I did really like that!

Thank you!
Taleisin

 

[Kronovere]

Appreciate all the detail on this!

I agree with what some other people have said that 7 named items + the rare loot pool is too much for one chest and makes even common items rather grindy to obtain compared to content from before Myth Drannor. The suggestion of moving one item to the optional chest instead of the end chest feels like the easiest solution here. Alternatively, raising the base named chance a bit, or splitting Sun/Moon augments into their own table for end chests would also be possible options.

Sun/Moon augments in the named item table also reduces the sentient XP drops of these quests compared to older content. This is solved in Myth Drannor with the inclusion of 1000 Sentient XP tokens, however I have not seen these drop in Night Brigade or Tavern Tales quests at all. If Sun/Moon augments as part of the named loot table is planned to continue, these Sentient XP tokens should become the standard in Lamordia and future content that uses this drop system.

I noticed most of the drop rates were given with a lot of detail, which is much appreciated, however the chance of upgrading to a rare drop is left vague, besides being higher than previous content. Is there a chance of getting this number as well?

The recipes are mentioned to match dino bone augment options. While dino bone is a great system, it does lack a lot of effects, especailly insightful and quality bonuses, which I feel like will be an issue when half of an average named item is these slots. I wasn't clear from the post if more effects were planned than dino bone, but if it's not already the intent, it'd be nice to see some added accessory effects, especially insightful and quality bonuses that can't be found on standard augments.

Finally artifacts say "Typical number of Chromatic Augment Slots (red, blue, etc - This is usually 1 on Heroic and 2 on Legendary)" which implies the existence of Heroic artifacts, and a reduction of augment slots on artifacts. Is this intended? Would much prefer to see the 3 augment slots kept for them if this is, reducing it would just encourage me to keep using older artifacts.

 

[axel15810]

Thank you for providing the detail, though please consider disclosing the chance for the rare table. Looking forward to seeing the loot.

 

[Ying]

Small chance to upgrade to the Rare Item Table. (The odds of reaching this table are higher than in past content).

Be transparent with the numbers instead of being coy. I already don't trust SSG to do the right thing after MD's rare item chance debacle. If you looted a chest 564 times like I did during the anniversary super loot boost event and didn't get the rare item you wanted, you'd be distrustful too.

 

[Ungermax]

@SteelStar

Hi mate

I appreciate that there is a level of transparancy in your preview notes, this I think goes some way towards addressing recent concerns.

Up front I think the biggest issue we are seeing is that it is still to difficult to get the named item you want. This can be seen from the formula as mentioned below:


Additionally, You have a 10/16/33% chance (on Normal/Hard Elite) to get something from the Named Item Table.

• Once you have reached the Named Item Table, you have a chance to get one of the following:
  • Standard Named Item A
  • Standard Named Item B
  • Standard Named Item C
  • Standard Named Item D
  • Sun/Moon Augment 1
  • Sun/Moon Augment 2
  • Sun/Moon Augment 3

I am not going to comment on the "rare loot" subject because that is a completely separate thing to my point here.

But if we look at the above, the issue is that Sun/Moon augments compete with regular named loot. It is fine that we want this pack to have a lot of playability. If I run elite, I have a 33% chance to get a named item OR an augment and this by definition makes all the items we want FEEL like an ultra rare item even though it technically isnt.

So my proposal is that Sun/Moon augments should NOT be classed as named items in terms of the loot. A given chest should give a chance to give a named item AND a Sun/Moon augment, but maybe not 10/16/33%. If you revised this and said each chest has a 10/15/20% chance of a named item and a 3/5/10% chance of a Sun/Moon augment, this would drastically change the whole thing.

Sun/Moon augments should not compete with named items in chests.

The very nature of a crafting system is that it breed replayability as we *should* want to get a full spectrum of gear from this system. Or as close to it as it allows. But this, at face value, looks like a LOOOOOOOOT of work to get what you actually want.

If you dont want to change the numbers then you could just make it so each quest has multiple identical end chests. But there are too many items competing with each other in these chests and therefor we enter the obscure rare vs "rare" vs actually rare vs not worth the grind scenario once more regardless of any actual categories.

As a follow up I would like to add some things. I like the flavor of the crafting system and I must admit I do enjoy being able to choose the effects on a given item. The Isle of Dread crafting system was interesting to me and this seems to follow the same basic system.


Typical Items

• Standard Named Items typically have:
  • 2 Static Effects (regular effects like most items have)
  • 1 Melancholic Slot
  • 1 Dolorous Slot
  • 1 Sun or Moon Augment Slot if their item type typically has one
  • Typical number of Chromatic Augment Slots (red, blue, etc - This is usually 1 on Heroic and 2 on Legendary)

So on a given standard Legendary item we can expect 2 regular effects, 2 special effects, Sun/Moon slot, and 2 regular Augment slots. I am interested to explore it, when the time comes. Should I pay for or freebie grind for this loot is still questionable as I think it falls into a bad category on the time vs desired loot scale. If it was confirmed in black and white that Sun/Moon will no longer compete with named items, and that this didnt have a drastic effect on standard named item drop rates, I would buy the pack immediately. Time will tell.

 

[Tyrbeorn]

I'll start with the good, as I don't want my criticisms to overwhelm the things that I am happy to see:

• Dino-Bone Style crafted feels great, Dino bone items remain some of the best options to complete the jigsaw puzzle that is end-game gearing. I am VERY excited to see a continuation of this.
• The Continuation & Expansion of Sun/Moon Augments. Sun/Moon over set bonuses has been my favorite change that's happened in a while
• Continuation of Optional Chests being worth doing
  • I appreciate that the rare chests do not have a Rare option.
• I TRULY appreciate that you have POSTED the Treasure tables for what you are initially expecting to implement.

The Bad:

• The drop rates for the item you want is HORRENDOUS for the main chest. At a 4.7% chance of to get what you want, for each time you run the quest.
  • I think the Augments need to be broken off into their own loot table — having 3 additional augments that could drop is what really hurts the item farming here.
  • Edit: I see that Augments have a different drop rate than Named Items, could we please get the actual rates for these?
• The drop rate for the Optional is better at 8.2% chance to get what you want, but still suffers from all the augments here.
• Small chance to upgrade to the Rare Item Table. (The odds of reaching this table are higher than in past content)
  
  • When you are giving the rest of the numbers for loot drops, why is there a hesitance to show us the numbers here?

 

[Alternative]

so rare items will have an extra "miserable slot" because it's going to be miserable to farm them?

 

[seph1roth5]

You ask for feedback, but ignore the hundreds and hundreds of comments from myth drannor about people hating sun/moon augments on the same loot table and rare items in general? True I don't know the exact % of rare, because you won't tell us...

But regardless of rare %, it's just too bloated, and I can't remember seeing a SINGLE person saying they liked the way MD did loot. At best (worst?) 1 or 2 people just didn't want everyone else to get the loot they were going to spend all their time hunting.

 

[l_remmie]

Thank you for providing the detail, though please consider disclosing the chance for the rare table. Looking forward to seeing the loot.

They will NEVER give the true odds for rare loot. You will need a courtcase for that.

 

[pevergreen]

I've been vocal in my displeasure in the past, so here's me being vocally pleased that you're being forthcoming with information on odds and how things will work.

I do agree that the named item table should be items on one chance, and a completely separate chance for augments.

 

[pirotessa]

Lunar gems that give +4 to stats like balance and tumble? What is the point of this? Who is this designed for? and this will waste a slot for a potentially GOOD lunar gem?

 

[Epicsoul]

There are too many items per chest. Two recommendations that I've seen others make that I agree with:

1) Augments should be on a different loot table than named loot. Alternatively, make them the only drop from optional chests?

2) There are too many rare items in a quest. It should be 1 or 2 at most.

 

[Dazling]

Am I correct in my understanding that this means:

Quest End Chest - 33% elite chance of item, ~1/7ish chance of getting any particular item not counting the rare stuff.

Quest Optional Chest: 33% elite chance of item, ~1/4ish chance of getting any particular item - 1/4 of the optional item that only drops from that chest, 3/4 of getting of the augments you had a 3/7 chance of getting one of from the main chest of that quest?

If that's the case I actually like the direction reasonably well, that's several legitimate reasons to do optionals (contains ingredients, contains unique item, gives better odds at getting the augments from the main chest).

I know there's no way I'll like the rare stuff - there's no % chance that feels good, and if the chance gets too high it starts feeling bad because now it's harder to get the non-rare items. But not going to harp on that. If I could pull a magic number out I'd say 20-25% chance is probably the sweet spot for rare to be as non-terrible as it can be.

I don't like augments being on the same table as items. Even if the rates were fiddled with to keep them the same overall, it's just more fun in stuff like Vecna where you feasibly xan get "Named Item Drop, Augment Drop, Random Weapon Drop" all in the same chest. Like if it was changed to "33% chance to have a 4/7 chance of getting a named item. Separate 33% chance to have a 3/7 chance to get an augment" that would be fine. Just feels lame to not get both at once.

This will also be at least 2x the grind as IOD in present shipped state I believe since you have 2+ Lamordia augments per item instead of typically 1. IMO the rates of ingredients should be increased some at least, even if it's just +50% and doesn't keep up with the extra slot increase, that way you more consistently are getting something increased. Isle of Dread generally felt a little much for me but mostly fine in terms of grind when going for just a weapon (usually a few sagas to finish a weapon), but finishing an entire gearset wasn't very casual accessible. Double that seems bad.

Also would be nice if heroic was a bit easier in a similar way to slave lords in my opinion, although if the quests are fast enough that the grind doesn't feel onerous that might would not be necessary.

Really like seeing all the numbers laid out.

 

[J1NG]

Hold up...

"Divination DC" Augment??

Are we finally getting a spell expansion as well and getting some Divination based spells?

J1NG

 

[Teruzuki]

Hello!

I really like the design of the system. I can tell alot of thought went into it, and I appreciate the effort at helping gear tetris. I still use quite a bit of IOD gear even now because of its versatility. This seems like it would be much fun to tinker with, which is exactly what I want in a crafting system like this.

I do have one suggestion. What if augments were removed entirely from quest end chests (so that they were only in the quest optional quests, possibly at the same rate given above)? That would give people chasing augments a chest to target (and reroll!) and give people targeting rare loot a chest to target (and also reroll!) without the loot table feeling too bloated. Drop rates could be adjusted as needed for augments and rare loot without one impacting the other. Just a thought.

Thank you again for your work on this.

 

[_fully_carroted_]

Not to be a downer, but the return of rare loot that’s exactly the same as Myth Drannor means that I’m currently planning to cancel my account.

To be specific:

• You say that the rare chance is “higher” but it’s the only place where you don’t put numbers. This means two things:
  • You already know that the old content has a drop rate that’s too low. Will you publicly commit to changing all comparable rare loot rates to a higher value?
  • You don’t want to tell us the number, which implies that you want it to be lower than the players want.
• Sun and Moon augments return. Currently they can block builds because many are both rare and required.
  • Rare items like this should never, ever block a build from being built. There must be a clear understanding that all set-style bonuses can actually be acquired.

I don’t want to cancel my account. But I already refuse to engage with Myth Drannor content because of rare loot, so refusing to play two expansions in a row means that I will leave the game.