U80 Preview 1 - DC Boost Initiative

[Lazuli]

I just started playing an arcane caster again (last time i played was when level cap was 28). Most of my spells get saved in both elite and R1. I didnt realize just how powerful the monsters were against spells.

I am gradually building up my gear but at the moment i am still along way off. I can now completely understand why you dont see many people playing casters anymore.

I really hope they do something with the spell focus feats. otherwise they will just be dead feats (and i think we have enough of those).

I look at some of the other toons i play and i am absolutely amazed how they have not nerfed other gamestyles but completely nerfed casters into the ground.

I fully agree with you in all less Spell focus feats being useless. They are mandatory in the current game. They are also a too big investment for the return, but they are necessary because you can't afford lose DC with such high monster saves.

People who told you they are useless are wrong. All players who have functional casters, even maxed casters, are using them.

 

[Guntango]

Perfect adaptation? Lol Current adaptation is not even decent. It's awful. And the worst side is always for casters.

DDO metas suck, period.

It's understandable to have a low tolerance for suck in the game, but it's antithetical to its history. For anyone still playing or here talking about it, it doesn't suck enough yet, even with a low suck sensitivity.

I'm ok with needing greensteel for max-HP barb tanks and being forced into US, or committing to magus to access one dps boost button on a 5-minute timer, etc. The game has always required that you make choices. While options seem endless, only a few maximize efficiency, and I'm perfectly content working within a much shorter S-Tier list of ideal selections.

 

[Guntango]

Because you're the only one who hasn't understood them.

50/50

 

[Lazuli]

You can be happy. I am not

Tanks complained a lot for that gear dependency. And that was changed.

 

[Sturmbb]

I fully agree with you in all less Spell focus feats being useless. They are mandatory in the current game. They are also a too big investment for the return, but they are necessary because you can't afford lose DC with such high monster saves.

People who told you they are useless are wrong. All players who have functional casters, even maxed casters, are using them.

Thanks for the advice, im just in the middle of doing a lesser reincarnation and i was going to drop them for mental toughness line. If im already missing with them, i just thought whats the point having those 3 feats when i cant even land with them in my build.

It's just crazy how even elite mobs are saving my spells.

Ill add them back in and carry on grinding for the items i need.

Ill go check out the sorcerer forum and see what else i can add to the build to improve it.

 

[WickedSloth]

I think converting the GH augs to insightful is a great idea, assuming of course those DCs are added elsewhere. Obvious choices for those are in the free legendary/epic feats, or ED caster cores. That's also where we increase MCL caps to address reduced caster dps.

 

[rabidfox]

Magus being mandatory for raids is big problem, sorry. Magus mandatory for spell penetration in a not cold or negative caster is a bad design.

Put time stop in the spell list it belongs, with the other stolen spells. It's a wiz sorc spell, since first d&d edition. 51 years.

Give bosses a debuff (after being time stopped) that prevents them from being time stopped again for 2 minutes. It'd shift some ED t5 choices around.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

There are already 26 insightful +3 DC items in the game. Changing GH augments to +3 insightful is a net negative on DCs, taking away a source of 2 and adding nothing since the vast majority of casters are already wearing a +3 insightful DC item. Why are GH augments catching strays in this? Please leave them alone.

 

[Lazuli]

Give bosses a debuff (after being time stopped) that prevents them from being time stopped again for 2 minutes. It'd shift some ED t5 choices around.

I doubt It. Time stop has a 5 min cooldown and usually in a raid there is a caster and a healer.

They have given too many times the excuse of adapting to pnp for their changes. Well, they can be faithful too with the spell lists, can't they?

Casters have many problema that explain their current bad shape. Spell lists are one of those problems.

 

[Abramax]

As an example, an item currently statted for level 34 would have Spell Focus Mastery values of a +6 Equipment bonus to all spell DCs. With these changes, that same item will instead provide a +7 Equipment bonus.

As another example, an item currently statted for level 34 would have Necromancy Focus values of +6 Equipment, +3 Insight, and +1 Quality. With these changes, that same item will instead provide +11 Equipment, +5 Insight, and +2 Quality.

I am sorry but :
- Spell focus mastery +7 for a level 34 item is a shame when an item lvl 30 with Combat Mastery gives : Combat Mastery +12: +12 Enhancement bonus to the DC to resist the character's Trip, Improved Trip, Sunder, Improved Sunder, Stunning Blow, and Stunning Fist attempts.
- Necromancy focus +11 for a level 34 item is a shame when an item lvl 30 with stunning gives : Stunning +16: +16 Enhancement bonus to the DC of character's Stunning Blow and Stunning Fist attempts.

Do you see the logic and balance ?

 

[Monkey_Archer]

I fully agree with you in all less Spell focus feats being useless. They are mandatory in the current game. They are also a too big investment for the return, but they are necessary because you can't afford lose DC with such high monster saves.

People who told you they are useless are wrong. All players who have functional casters, even maxed casters, are using them.

I think its good to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Current endgame no-fail DCs are around 150+

Many builds (fighters, barbs, monks) and many non-standard DC abilities can hit 150+ without full min/maxing. These builds can essentially pick and choose which DC bonuses are necessary to build for (ie. I'm using the 9% doublestrike past life stance instead of +6 tactics)

Fully min/maxed caster builds with literally every past life and school focus only end up in the 130-140 DC range(depending on build). You don't get any build choices, you just take everything.

Then there's the other martial builds, like rangers... in this case you take nothing because you are never going to land that trip anyway...

 

[Lazuli]

I think its good to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

Current endgame no-fail DCs are around 150+

Many builds (fighters, barbs, monks) and many non-standard DC abilities can hit 150+ without full min/maxing. These builds can essentially pick and choose which DC bonuses are necessary to build for (ie. I'm using the 9% doublestrike past life stance instead of +6 tactics)

Fully min/maxed caster builds with literally every past life and school focus only end up in the 130-140 DC range(depending on build). You don't get any build choices, you just take everything.

Then there's the other martial builds, like rangers... in this case you take nothing because you are never going to land that trip anyway...

Yes, yes, I won't argue with that. For the endgame in the new content, you need every bonus, and clearly, caster items have less DC than tactical items. Reaching the required threshold with a caster requires a level of pressure that other archetypes don't have. Not all martials are as fortunate as fighters, monks, and others, it must be said. But I'm all for an increase in spell DC that isn't a scam.

The spell focus feats also feel like a rip-off, being just a +1 bonus to a school, and so many are needed. But hey, the fact that they're too expensive for such a small bonus to a single school doesn't mean they're useless.

And in the case of Sturmbb, who doesn't even have DC at elite level, spell focus can be very useful. Then he (or she?) needs to focus on getting the bonuses to spell DC and charisma on the gear I listed on the previous page, since he's a sorcerer. But above all, he needs to realize that Sentience is fundamental to achieving decent DC. He needs to work on full Sentience on both artifact and weapon as soon as possible. He should double the key filigrees on the artifact and pay special attention to sets that grant spell DC. Because he can get around 16 DC, or even more, from Sentience. This is key to achieving functional DC, especially if he won't have access to things like Reaper Bonus, etc.

 

[Frantik]

Am I the only player who is underwhelmed for the changes to caster DCs? It's been a while coming, and it feels like I just unwrapped my present to find something wishwashy and poorly-thought out.

What do SSG have against casters?

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Because he can get around 16 DC, or even more, from Sentience. This is key to achieving functional DC, especially if he won't have access to things like Reaper Bonus, etc.

Its also key to why hybrid builds don't work anymore... It would be nice if after this DC adjustment is finished we get to a state where newerplayers/alts can specialise to actually hit endgame targets and those of us with all the past lives can use them to experiment with hybrids again.

 

[Lazuli]

Its also key to why hybrid builds don't work anymore... It would be nice if after this DC adjustment is finished we get to a state where newerplayers/alts can specialise to actually hit endgame targets and those of us with all the past lives can use them to experiment with hybrids again.

yes! I said that before xD.

* Filigrees, some from raids, others not. Obviously, Sentience is required to equip them, but in addition to that, casters have to dedicate all their Sentience to Spell DC, which means spell damage is neglected. This doesn't happen with martial builds; they are full DPS. And this hurts hybrid builds a lot because a lot of weapon damage comes from filigrees. And a lot of spell DC (like 16 points) comes from filigrees. Hybrids can't be competitive in this scenario.

That's why I said before that these new filigrees aren't filigrees for hybrids. What a hybrid needs in the current game is for filigrees to give them the spell DC they need without having to sacrifice so much weapon damage. These new filigrees aren't doing that. They aren't filigrees for hybrids.

 

[Sammy]

We want to reduce the number of channels. The proposed change to GH augments is correct as long as that value is transferred elsewhere and doesn't result in a loss of DC. That's what hasn't been proposed.

Furthermore, and as much as I hate having 5 or 6 slot augments tied up, augments are easier to equip than the proposed increase to school DC items. So please, the current proposal needs significant refinement.

I see what you're saying. And I agree, if they change GH augments, that loss will need to be made up for. I simply don't like the original suggestion of changing from Enhancement > Insightful because it will not stack with existing gear.

I would not mind at all if they consolidated them and kept Enhancement type. Meaning, instead of several Enhancement topazes for each individual spell school, we just had one for Enhancement Spell Focus Mastery. Then, scale that SFM per level.

I know many people want to reduce "channels", or in reality just the sheer amount of things that we as casters need to affix. Caster gear can quickly get very tight, even with many augment slots because they get filled up too easily.

In my opinion, the change should be Indivdual > Master. Not Enhancement > Insightful. Making it Insightful is just a loss of stacking potential. Making it Mastery frees up augment slots without the stacking loss.

But... perhaps I'm fine with the first change IF Insightful bonuses are raised on existing gear to the extent that I no longer care about the augments.

 

[justin credible]

Give bosses a debuff (after being time stopped) that prevents them from being time stopped again for 2 minutes. It'd shift some ED t5 choices around.

i like it
also give them a debuff that prevents them from being effected by quickcutter for 2 minutes everytime they are hit by it

 

[Mokune]

This DC change as presented to be "helpful" to players is 100% social engineering BS.

The devs set the DCs based on mob SAVES in content they design...

NOW they want to ACT as if they are doing something "helpful" for us by fixing a problem THAT THEY EFFING CREATED IN THEIR DESIGN!?!?!?

They are not your friends. They do not care. Whatever narrative they are selling you is the same ole story...same ole song and dance my friend.

 

[Smokewolf]

I'd like to see Archmage revamped...

Maybe having the following.

Core 1 "Archmage: (AP 1): +3 Universal spell-power, +1 penetration and +1 Spell DC core taken.

Core 2

Core 3 "Spell Imbue" (AP 1) All offensive spells are further imbued for Force

Core 4

Core 5 "Master of Magic" (AP 1): Through extensive training and countless hours of study, you have mastered the application of metamagic feats to your spells. You gain +4 Intelligence, +20 Universal Spell Power, +5 Spellcraft, and all metamagic feats cost 1 fewer spell point to use.

That's because in Legendary, saves increase significantly to accommodate the multiplication of channels in Legendary gear.

In high heroic, with Spell Mastery gear, plus the artifact bonuses from the Sharn set and the equipment + insightful spellcasting ability on your equipment, it's enough. I don't complicate things further; this is sufficient. In Epic, I add 100,000 Sentient XP, which translates to approximately +9-10 points of DC.

But in Legendary, this isn't enough. You have to add Insightful Spell Mastery DC, Quality DC, Profane DC, Sacred DC, and Reaper DC. Additionally, your Spellcasting ability needs bonuses of Quality, Festive, Profane, Exceptional, Reaper, and Curse. Furthermore, you need a full set of filigrees (currently 15) dedicated to DC and ability increase; that's about 16-18 points of DC just from filigrees.

Legendary gear is a completely different game than Heroic or Epic. Many more stats.

And as bad as spell DC is, spell damage equipment is even worse, much worse.

And this gear Tetris is what makes playing a caster such a PITA. Its not just that casters are not relivent in groups, its the cost of all the augment / filgree tools needed just to gear-up for ok'ish DC's is insane.

 

[mikarddo]

Preferably - completely drop single school spell focus effects in gear - make all items effects spell focus mastery. Eg, ML 34 gear will be +11 sfm.

Leave feats, past live bonusser etc as single school effects.

If unwilling make sfm +10 and single school +11. Do not make the difference more than +1.