U82 Lamannia Preview 1 - Masteries & Spell Pass

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Torc

Systems Developer
Summary: We are rebalancing spell damage. This is mostly focused on boosting single target damage with a certain rebalancing of some classes, and spells.

  • Single Target Direct Damage spell costs will be lowered (likely 2 + 1 spell points level beyond level 1, so 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9). This will not affected Damage/CC combo spells like Salt Ray. SLAs using these spells will be 1 point lower if not more.
    • Example Polar Ray will go from 20 sp cost to 8. Scorching Ray will go from 8 sp to 3.
  • Some Single Target CC spells have had their spell costs lowered.
    • Example Ghoul Touch, will go from 8 sp to 3 sp.
    • Example Hold Person, will go from 15 SP to 8 sp.
  • All damage spells are having their max caster levels set to 20. IE: Burning hands will no longer need a mastery to hit max caster level 20.
  • Single Target Direct Damage Spells and DOTs without a CC/Death/Debuff component now all have a max caster level of 25.
    • Example of spells affected: Scorching Ray, Shocking Grasp, Nimbus of Light, Vial of Acid, Polar Ray (Still does it!)
    • Note: This is done off the base spell, so if something upgrades it with a CC later, it’s still at the level 25 rate. Example: Moon Lance
  • These changes do not effect inflicts/harm/heal/cures, as they interactive with healing and are outside the scope of this pass. We will get to them in a different pass.
  • Epic feat spells like hell ball are not part of this pass as of yet.
  • The Master of “X” epic feats are changing…



FeatDescription
Master of Air+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Electric Damage deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Earth+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Acid Damage deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Fire+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Fire Damage deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Water+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Cold Damage deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Force+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Force Damage or Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeon deal an additional 1d6+2 damage for each epic or legendary level you have. This also applies to Eldritch Blasts.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.

Antireq - Magical Ambush
Master of the Dead+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Negative damage deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Poisons+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Poison damage deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Music+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Sonic Damage deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Light+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Light Damage deal an additional 1d6+2 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.
Master of Alignment+150 spell points. Your Damage spells to hostile targets that cause Evil, Lawful or Chaos Damage Deal an additional 1d6+3 damage for each epic or legendary level you have.
This can only occur once per cast. This does not apply to persistent spells like clouds, walls or guardians.



Note: The goal of the new mastery feats is to create an relatively cheap chunk of single target damage to help balance caster DPS against other DPS styles in competitive play against bosses and raid bosses.



FAQ -

1> Will combo damage types apply two different masteries? Example: Meteor Swarm or Ice Flowers. Yes.

2> Spell power? Spell Crit? Yep, it should all work on the extra damage by type, crits are rolled independently for this proc.

3> How does this work with AOEs or Multi Missiles?? 1 and only 1 target will take the extra damage on AOEs. You damage proc per cast on 1 target, so multi missiles only get 1 proc because it is still one cast.

4> On a dot does this apply with every dot tick? No the damage happens once when you cast the dot (and if a stacking dot, each time you recast)

5> Does this work with the new cantrips? yep

6> Eldritch Blasts? Master of Force applies to the eldritch blast (all shapes and sizes) as force damage. Enlightened Spirit’s aura will work (though typically spell auras like pale master will not, we made an exception here.). Eldritch Blast spell power scaling will apply, so 170% on single target. Masteries do not interact with pact dice. If you use warlocks “make my blast evil damage” master of force will still work with it, but as force damage because the base spell is considered force.

7> Will mastery of the dead heal my allies or myself if we are undead? No, this proc only applies to hostile targets

8> Do these work on destiny spells? Yes





The follow masteries are being dropped and will be replaced with a respec token

  • Master of Artificer
  • Mater of the Wilds
  • Mastery of Spell Vials
  • Master of Shadow blades
  • Master of Chaos
  • Master of Thorns
Meta Magic Changes

Maximize will now only grant 100 spell power instead of 150, but it’s cost increase will go down from 25 to 20

Intensify will now grant 125 spell power up for 75, and it’s cost will remain the same.

Note on this - The meta magic SLA combo is going to get more powerful in heroic because many spells that stopped advancing by level 5 or 10 will no longer so, as a result we wanna move some of the power up into epics to keep heroic from getting to 1 shotty.

Targeted Spell Changes

  • Level 9 AOE Damage spells a getting a hair cut, and spells that have a CC component are getting their damage offset. This is related to the caster damage in reaper coming up globally.
    • Acid Well: goes from 1d6 +18 to 1d6 +14 (Ave 17.5 level)
    • Meter Swarm does from 1d3+1/1d2+1 x4 to 1d3+1/1d2 x4 (Ave 17 level)
    • Tsunami goes to 1d6+9/1d6+9 to 1d6+4/1d6+4 (Average 15 level). Cold Damage now does it’s saving throw properly, bludgeon damage will not have a saving throw. Tool tip will be updated.
    • Celestial Bombardment goes from 1d6+9x3 to 1d6+3x3
  • Other Changes
    • Sound Burst goes from 1d6+1 damage to 1d6 on damage (it’s still per caster level)
    • Shocking Grasp damage goes from 1d6+2 to 1d12+2
    • Chill Touch damage goes from 1d6+2 to 1d10+2
    • Enervate now costs 10 spell points
    • Energy Drain now costs 25 spell points
    • Horrid Wilting now does negative energy damage instead of bane (applies to monsters to)
    • Cyclonic Blast now does bludgeon damage instead of bane (applies to monsters to)
    • Frost Lance is going down to 1d6+4 per 2 character levels from 1d8+8 per 2 character levels.
    • Polar Ray is going up to 1d6+10 per level
    • Black Dragon Bolt boosted to 2d10 per level in damage from 1d10
    • Thorn Lance spell cost reduced to 15


    • The Ki Spells are being changed to include both 150% Melee Power and 100% Spell Power scaling. This includes changing the spell itself to scale wholesale with Melee Power like the currently-but-soon-to-be-intended Ki Bolt, which means any procs that are riding along with them will also inherit that Melee Power scaling. The spells being changed are:
      • Ki Bolt (Sacred Fist and Henshin)
      • Incinerating Wave (Sacred Fist and Henshin)
      • Ki Explosion (Sacred Fist)
      • Cauldron of Flame (Henshin Mystic)
Additional - We are removing Magical training from the epic destiny cores because of all the nuisances it caused with respec'ing destiny trees. Access to magical training will stay in heroic enhancements outside of cores, and as a trainable feat. Note, also mentioned in the cantrip section, we've given magical training to basic bards at level 1.

Note About Monsters: While monsters will ignore the damage value changes, the max caster level changes will effect them, as will the damage type changing. This is intentional and will result in a mix of monsters hitting harder and weaker with various spells. We expect to average out in the players favor mostly with less extreme spikes from bane spells, as monsters at higher level are generally already throwing max 20-25 caster level spells mostly, and a basic fireball will still hit softer than a delayed blast fire ball.
 
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Ignition

Well-known member
is the change to ki spells 150% melee power AND 100% spell power or is it 150% melee power or 100% spell power which ever is higher?
 

Zariel

Well-known member
What garbage is this? You are asked to worry about caster damage because it's significantly lower than almost all melee and ranged and focus on that over spell dc's and you big brainds translated that as nerf aoe. You really are dense and it has to be intentional at this point! jfc
 

LurkingVeteran

Well-known member
Very interesting, love many of the changes like harmonizing MCL. Great work! It's going to get leveling some builds much less painful.

The new Master of... feats look interesting. One quirk is that Warlock will get almost 3x as much DPS out of theirs since EB does 1.5 procs per second, +60% crit damage in TS and 170% scaling on blast type. Maybe they deserve this, but just want to confirm that this is intended. Warlock blaster might actually be the biggest winner in this patch and do decent R10 DPS.

Some suggestions on spell changes:
- Disintegration is a pure DPS spell and really needs modern dice considering it has both a cooldown and 0 damage on fort save. This is iconic.
- Cyclonic blast needs a modest improvement in dice - it technically has weak CC but it is not the point of the spell. It was intended to have competitive DPS in D&D source material.
- Electric loop, is the same, it has a daze that breaks on damage and requires two saves. Come on, the only time people use this is when they get it as a free SLA on air savant.
- Horrid Wilting needs a dice increase, it's just a pure neg DPS spell now.
- Celestial Bombardment needs a lower cooldown if you reduce the damage that much. It was balanced by a 30s CD. Now it's wrecked.
- Multi-vial was untouched for unclear reasons? It is even better than Meteor.
- Horn of Thunder also untouched when you nerfed the other AoE? The problem is really the Fatesinger enhancement that doubles their damage, but everyone playing sonic uses that destiny because you gave it the best vulnerability debuff in the game. Maybe it's fine since it's CD is longer but considering the treatment Celestial Bombardment got...


I understand keeping it simple by ignoring spells with CC component, but that is exactly what you said 15 years ago in the first arcane spell pass. Some are beyond due touching. Since then you have buffed the damage of many spells for other classes with CC components (Holy Smite, Salt Ray, Cometfall... even including the Shout's).
 
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Solarpower

Well-known member
Meta Magic Changes

Maximize will now only grant 100 spell power instead of 150, but it’s cost increase will go down from 25 to 20

Intensify will now grant 125 spell power up for 75, and it’s cost will remain the same.

Note on this - The meta magic SLA combo is going to get more powerful in heroic because many spells that stopped advancing by level 5 or 10 will no longer so, as a result we wanna move some of the power up into epics to keep heroic from getting to 1 shotty.
Yeah, but how are you supposed to make it to those 5 -10+ levels when you can pick Maximize at level 1 during character creation, yet the bonus it provides has been reduced ? Just keep dying to monsters ? Not play casters ?

I really hope that with every nerf to casters, your salaries get nerfed just the same ! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
 

Phloat

Well-known member
  • All damage spells are having their max caster levels set to 20. IE: Burning hands will no longer need a mastery to hit max caster level 20.
This means that your epic strikes are now as powerful (or less) than your highest level spells. If you are looking to buff spells by caster level, the max CL of epic strikes should also increase (I'd recommend to 30). It sucks to get an epic strike and already have your caster level capped.

Example: Delayed Blast Fireball vs Draconic Breath

Delayed Blast Fireball: Creates a ball of fire that detonates on impact, causing an explosion of flame that deals 1d6+7 points of fire damage per caster level up to a maximum damage of 20d6+140 at caster level 20 to all targets around it. Avg dmg at CL 20: 210.

Dragon Breath: Epic Strike: This is a Breath Weapon spell. Deals 1d6+5 damage per Character level of the element of your choice to all enemies caught within a in a cone in front of you.
Avg dmg at CL 20: 170.

Not to mention DBF has a 3s cooldown on sorc and 5s on wizard, whereas DB has a 12s cooldown.
 
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Wrensel

Well-known member
is the change to ki spells 150% melee power AND 100% spell power or is it 150% melee power or 100% spell power which ever is higher?
I only have a Ki Bolt to test with, but so far it appears to combine the Melee Power and Spell Power scaling for the Ki Bolt. However, any extra effects added afterwards are only scaling with 150% Melee Power (like the new Master of Force feat).
 

LurkingVeteran

Well-known member
I only have a Ki Bolt to test with, but so far it appears to combine the Melee Power and Spell Power scaling for the Ki Bolt. However, any extra effects added afterwards are only scaling with 150% Melee Power (like the new Master of Force feat).
Does this mean the mantle procs now do not scale with both like they did before? This was extremely good, and likely is still very good even with 150%. If it still works that way. I would rather see this adjusted somehow. EDIT: seems it sitll scales, and maybe at 150% this is OK for the sacrifice? Hard to say.
 
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saekee

long live ROGUE
I am wondering how this will affect ki bolt builds.

Torc please do not change the ki spell and melee power draconic mantle scaling; the ki bolt builds are not endgame or overpowered, already deeply limited due to reaper spellpower nerfs, and require complex hybrid gearing. Let’s not flatline everything into the same build.
 
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Wisefreelancer

Well-known member
Sor/Wiz/Drd/Art

Yeah, but how are you supposed to make it to those 5 -10+ levels when you can pick Maximize at level 1 during character creation, yet the bonus it provides has been reduced ? Just keep dying to monsters ? Not play casters ?

I really hope that with every nerf to casters, your salaries get nerfed just the same ! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
I really don't think the spellpower nerf at level 1 is going to be noticable. And if it is, you'll be level 5 regardless in no time.
 

Wrensel

Well-known member
Does this mean the mantle procs now do not scale with both like they did before? This was extremely good, and likely is still very good even with 150%. If it still works that way. I would rather see this adjusted somehow
Mantle Procs work as they did, but with the new 150% Melee Power Scalar on Ki Bolt (instead of the former 300% Melee Power Scalar).

Yeah, right.
Let's further intensify the specialization of casters.
Even though everyone in all the threads is asking for the exact opposite.
🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Master of "X" feats were already specialized to begin with. If it makes you feel better, the average caster probably will ignore them because their damage output will be less than common endgame weapon procs like Dripping with Magma.
 

in4theride75

Well-known member
What are you trying to accomplish with this change? This is going to dramatically affect feedback.

Here is what these changes do

  • Large buff to spells level 1-5 at the end of heroics+ where they are no longer used. Effectively a small buff to SLAs.
  • A small nerf to early game caster DPS.
  • A tiny buff to spells level 6-8 in epics.
  • A moderate buff to acid caster single target DPS.
  • A significant nerf to epic and legendary AOE DPS.
  • A moderate nerf to ki bolt builds.
  • A moderate buff to warlock blasters.
  • A moderate nerf to divine casters in epic+
  • EDIT: Forgot small single target DPS increase from lvl 9 spells iceberg and thunderstroke.

If these were your design change goals you nailed them. If your goal was to make caster effective in endgame content you missed spectacularly.
 
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LurkingVeteran

Well-known member
So is Scorching Ray eating a huge nerf too? or is Frost Lance is being made exclusively worse than its fire counterpart?

(1 level higher, 2 base damage lower per 2 CL, Fort save for half)
Frankly just leave it at 1d8+8; they get a save for half.
I also don't understand this change. I would not reduce it by more than 10-20% damage since it has as fort save.
 

LurkingVeteran

Well-known member
What are you trying to accomplish with this change? This is going to dramatically affect feedback.

Here is what these changes do

  • Large buff to spells level 1-5 at the end of heroics+ where they are no longer used. Effectively a small buff to SLAs.
  • A small nerf to early game caster DPS.
  • A tiny buff to spells level 6-8 in epics.
  • A moderate buff to acid caster single target DPS.
  • A significant nerf to epic and legendary AOE DPS.
  • A moderate nerf to ki bolt builds.
  • A moderate buff to warlock blasters.
  • A moderate nerf to divine casters in epic+

If these were your design change goals you nailed them. If your goal was to make caster effective in endgame content you missed spectacularly.
They also harmonized the R10 scaling so casters did get moderately stronger in R8+ and separately ranged got moderately nerfed, but in (low reaper) raids it mostly just gave caster more sustain. The Master of helps a bit though. I'm not sure how this will play out.
 

Zaszgul

Well-known member
The reductions to base spell cost seem unnecessary. For the most part they are already pretty cheap. Rather, adding metamagics to non-sla's is prohibitively expensive and is what forces a heavy reliance on SLAs, especially while leveling.

I would suggest setting base spell cost higher than in OP (even unchanged from live) while substantially reducing metamagic costs instead. Heighten especially!

For instance, if I read OP correctly a regular fireball will cost 5 sp. A heightened fireball (for +6 DC) will cost 35 sp, a 600% increase in cost for expected 15% damage increase (30% chance to avoid halving damage due to mob save).
Meteor Swarm will cost 11 sp -- 1/3 of the cost and 3x the damage of a heightened fireball.
Which is to say, regular fireball will still be useless unless it is a SLA; these changes don't accomplish much.
 

EinarMal

Well-known member
What are you trying to accomplish with this change? This is going to dramatically affect feedback.

Here is what these changes do

  • Large buff to spells level 1-5 at the end of heroics+ where they are no longer used. Effectively a small buff to SLAs.
  • A small nerf to early game caster DPS.
  • A tiny buff to spells level 6-8 in epics.
  • A moderate buff to acid caster single target DPS.
  • A significant nerf to epic and legendary AOE DPS.
  • A moderate nerf to ki bolt builds.
  • A moderate buff to warlock blasters.
  • A moderate nerf to divine casters in epic+

If these were your design change goals you nailed them. If your goal was to make caster effective in endgame content you missed spectacularly.
Everyone is losing 6% critical chance as well.
 
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