ShadowFlash144
Member
All well and good, but Radiant Servant Burst doesn't accept intensify so it's just a hard nerf to an already meh trademark tree ability.
U82 Lamannia Preview 1 - Masteries & Spell Pass
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Solarpower
Well-known member
Nope.
These are three quite specific questions.
On a level 1 Druid ?
And how I should survive till those became available ?
Even now I can barely survive on Elite. What should I do after the nerfs ? Drop to Hard ? Left the game ?
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
Fire sorc is in an interesting spot overall after the changes. It's arguably better in R10 with the 30% increase in damage, the master of fire proc and the improvement to low level spells.
But for me it's worse at the thing it was really good at which is clearing mobs in solo questing mid skull.
Like you I couldn't fit intensify in so it's a loss of 50 spellpower, 6% crit chance and the haircut to meteor swarm. I didn't get to test it on Lamannia so I'll wait until next preview and test it to see how it is with a few tweaks, but yeah of all my builds it's the one that was negatively impacted the most while ironically receiving a big bump in other areas. But I really want to test it before making a final judgement on it.
Either way all is well, I will reroll it to something else I've been wanting to try for a while and see how it does.
Honestly, I think we might be playing completely different games. I can't comprehend not blowing through R1 on any caster build I run, including Cleric/Druid etc..., the changes they are making will make no difference to me.Nope.
These are three quite specific questions.
On a level 1 Druid ?
And how I should survive till those became available ?
Even now I can barely survive on Elite. What should I do after the nerfs ? Drop to Hard ? Left the game ?
I can solo R4 easily on any caster build, so I really can't relate to what you are saying.
I am on a Wizard right now; no problem clearing packs with Chain Lightning. Outlikes: those are 1d6+6 spells with Arcane Tempest.
Firestorm does more damage.
Frantik
Well-known member
The Holy Smite SLA could be ok for some AoE damage (1d6+4 aint a lot in epics) but mostly for the blind; if SSG were to reduce improved meta magics to 1 AP per tier, then maybe for the regular spell too.
Some really good changes here, very happy with the systematic changes
Notable exceptions to the individual spell nerfs:
Notable exceptions to the individual spell nerfs:
- Acid Well: I run acid sometimes and without this being powerful I will never run it again. Better scaling of acid blast will not make up the difference - I'm already one of the few people running acid caster, and there just aren't enough spells to make it worthwhile. That or get rid of the extra slow cast animation on this spell.
- Meter Swarm: I can understand this, but its iconic. I'd suggest in the future to create a way to add 1 of any missile style spell, or something that specifically adds meteors.
- Tsunami: While I agree this ability is crazy, its also super fun. It should still have serious impact. going from +9 to +4 is brutal. Maybe some kind of compromise position? Do we think other spells are going to increase in power enough to compensate more than 80% of this loss?
- Celestial Bombardment: This is the only dependable divine caster spell. Have any of these changes really changed that outcome? Back when they were doing erroneous amounts of damage they were on par with arcane casters and their dmg got close to halved. Maybe scale up their other spells if you're going to nerf their only above average button.
can you do this on a 1st lifer with out trading gear from another character to said 1st life character?
Solarpower
Well-known member
As I’ve already mentioned, players with BiS gear and 1000 PLs might not notice these changes.
What should the others do ?
It’s not just R10 zergers play the game !
Are Chain Lightning, Outlikes, and Firestorm available from level 1? No?
Same question : how do people supposed to make it to the levels where Chain Lightning, Outlikes, and Firestorm become available ?
Only the Wizard and Sorcerer have good offensive spells right from level 1. An Alchemist can manage to survive reasonably well by taking "Inflict Light Wounds". However, this spell has significant drawbacks, as our primary enemies, especially in the early game (and throughout most Heroics) are undead.
Even they suffer because our "Maximize" is being cut back !
What should the other classes do ? Those that are already struggling ?
And cantrips won't help. Not at all.
It’s particularly "amusing" to read certain claims that cantrips will help new players...
The main problem with Korthos is not at all the lack of spells, although that, too, plays a significant role. The main problem is the lack of items that increase spellpowers ! If you have your caster sticks from the Borderlands, you can equip them and survive. If not, you are screwed.
And new players don't have Borderlands items.
Cantrips that don't get 100% spellpower scaling, target only a single enemy, global suffer from reduced Maximize effectiveness plus the 2 feats tax for the cantrips is only someone who has never launched the game even once and has not the slightest clue how hard the early levels are could come up with a concept like that !
vik
Well-known member
I'm no melee expert, but the DR penalty seems pretty steep to me. We'll see how it works out I guess, just like these changes.
Hey guys, with the addition of these nice Mastery caster feats and Intensify now pretty much becoming a must-have, casters will have a hard time on Epic/Legendary feats. This is especially true also due to Epic Spell Focus + Legendary Spell Focus now granting a huge +5 to DCs, which is too hard to bypass.
So came the idea:
How about switching the Spell Focus feats from Epic/Legendary line to the Destiny feat line? (I mean the ones you get at lvl 22, 25, 28, etc)
So came the idea:
How about switching the Spell Focus feats from Epic/Legendary line to the Destiny feat line? (I mean the ones you get at lvl 22, 25, 28, etc)
nice max caster lvl 20 for dmg spells, now mixed magic builds can start at all and lvl 12 to 20 will be better for FVS , cleric & all this Tier 5 SLA that had max caster lvl 10.
Less sp costs for single dmg not spell level 9 (ice berg, ..) nice.
I am looking forward to see how you change the epic spells
Can you reduce the amount of master of x feats by fusing some of them. Like Dead & Poison, Air & Music(sonic), Light & Alignment. Currently this master of 1 dmg type favours Sorc alot. And is quite unfair for Cleric/FVS single target dmg spells deal Light or Necro, but the aoe spells are Fire, Necro or Alignment.
Why are Master of Light, Force, Sonic weaker? Ok, Force probably because of Eldritch Blast.
Imo keep the big Dmg of LvL 9 AoE spells, but increase the cooldown to 20s or 30s. So they are powerful actions but cant be used that often anymore.
Less sp costs for single dmg not spell level 9 (ice berg, ..) nice.
I am looking forward to see how you change the epic spells
Can you reduce the amount of master of x feats by fusing some of them. Like Dead & Poison, Air & Music(sonic), Light & Alignment. Currently this master of 1 dmg type favours Sorc alot. And is quite unfair for Cleric/FVS single target dmg spells deal Light or Necro, but the aoe spells are Fire, Necro or Alignment.
Why are Master of Light, Force, Sonic weaker? Ok, Force probably because of Eldritch Blast.
Imo keep the big Dmg of LvL 9 AoE spells, but increase the cooldown to 20s or 30s. So they are powerful actions but cant be used that often anymore.
I have done so on hardcore, but the build and class you choose do matter a lot more.
None of the negative changes here really would impact that one way or the other, though.
The only negative changes I see are a nerf to some level 9 AOE spells, a critical stacking nerf that really only matters to end-game players who maximize their gear, and swapping some spellpower to Intensify from Maximize?
Sorry, I don't get the doom and gloom on these changes for level 1 or new players.
I don't see how someone who could solo R1-R4 could all of a sudden not be able to do that because their AOE went down a bit and single-target damage went up a bit.
Anyway, I am bowing out of this one.
I won't offer any more build advice to anyone to improve with the changes and will let the doom and gloom carry on.
To be clear, I would have preferred they not reduce AOE or critical stacking, but I will adapt to it and make the best casters I can given the new rules.
LurkingVeteran
Well-known member
I don't like the extra feat tax either. I wonder if the ruins will simply fall out of a lot of builds. It's the main reason to take Draconic T5, so without a caster ED revamp, draconic may also fall (further) out of favor. Maybe the buffed Black dragon bolt is worth picking up for fire as well now, and Thunderbolt was already a good option. You could even go Cold with buffed polar ray and Iceberg as they removed the MCL penalties.
The feat tax appears to be at a point where you cannot take Spell Pen feats, cannot take mental feats to support the new cantrips, cannot take Ruins, and will have a devils time deciding what to drop for immunity strip feats if you dont have that natively except for wizards.
Nor do you have any feats left for defensive stuff like Leg Toughness, Deific Warding etc.
Imho sorcs as an example are short atleast 4 feat slots to be in a reasonable position and that still leaves some hard choices on what to leave out.
It is completely appalling.
Lazuli
Well-known member
This. With this feat tax I don't have room for Ruins on my fire sorc. What ed should I use now? Magus is cold, not fire.
Cold is on live better han fire. But the pass will kill fire. No good ED for fire. MS, that currently does less damage than fire,wiill do a lot less.
Congrats, devs, for killing builds. Is your intention reduce the number of viable builds?
ChickenMobile
Well-known member
Cantrips are never going to be as good as a SLAs or other spells. Even fully upgraded w/ Mental Toughness because of the 75% scaling. Good fillers perhaps, but Mental Toughness is a hard pass on most builds because 1% spell crit chance is so little. (or 3% for all 3 feats? Like c'mon). Idea: buff the crit chance on Mental Toughness to make up for Elder's nerf?
I often take the shield fighting style line for extra HP with Spell DC feats and completely ignore spell pen.
For creatures with high pen - use a swap item with a Solar Spell pen aug +Insightful or use spells without any check. 50%+ of all mobs in the new expansion seem to need pen checks though.
One small frustration I have is that casters are probably weak enough that they could use some extra power without major trade-offs. New shiny feats are interesting and all, but they're very very hard to fit in, especially after the dc changes added even more pressure.
There is also the fact that arti crit and item procs got bugfixed/nerfed. They both probably deserved to be because how unintuitive they were, but it's still a power nerf without any way to make up for it.
This pass doesn't seem to touch EDs in any way, but if I'd change something this time it would be something like this:
-Ease up on the epic feat tax by turning the Master of x feats into destiny feats. Either by just doing so, or by adding the damage proc to the epic damage feats.
-Return the lost 6% crit some way. For example by adding a new lunar augment or by adding a small amount to the epic knowledge feats. (1% each would almost fully cover the lost crit, while still being future proof if not added to the legendary version)
-Seriously consider adding some kind of generic buff that all casters get. An easy thing to do would be to increase USP from epic/legendary power. 6 spellpower is nowhere near the value of 6 mp/rp and could do with a boost. You could also add it to ED cores, but that could be saved for a ED revamp.
There is also the fact that arti crit and item procs got bugfixed/nerfed. They both probably deserved to be because how unintuitive they were, but it's still a power nerf without any way to make up for it.
This pass doesn't seem to touch EDs in any way, but if I'd change something this time it would be something like this:
-Ease up on the epic feat tax by turning the Master of x feats into destiny feats. Either by just doing so, or by adding the damage proc to the epic damage feats.
-Return the lost 6% crit some way. For example by adding a new lunar augment or by adding a small amount to the epic knowledge feats. (1% each would almost fully cover the lost crit, while still being future proof if not added to the legendary version)
-Seriously consider adding some kind of generic buff that all casters get. An easy thing to do would be to increase USP from epic/legendary power. 6 spellpower is nowhere near the value of 6 mp/rp and could do with a boost. You could also add it to ED cores, but that could be saved for a ED revamp.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
I don't have the feats free to take those lines on most of my builds. It really wouldn't solve the crit loss for many people, but would be a source of frustation to have that crit sitting there just out of reach.
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