U82 Preview 1 - Monster DR Rework

[byzantinebobby]

Changing DR from flat to percentage makes total sense in a vacuum. We do not live in a vacuum though. In Epics, this is fine. Between gear and EDs, there are plenty of tools to adapt and overcome. However, in Heroics, this is going to be brutal. We do not have very many tools available.

As an example, imagine a new player rolls a Thief Acrobat to be a staff Rogue. This new player encounters tons of zombies and has no way to get Slashing on to their staff. They do not have an alternate weapon type to use swap to and still get to use their Acrobat tree with. This new player is just punished because they enountered a Zombie. That sure sounds like a quit moment to me. This is easily solvable with more gear and build options that can be added, but they are not in the game yet.

I appreciate wanting to make the system easier to maintain, but until we have better tools in Heroics, can this be rolled out incrementally? Just start with say tying the new DR to the Epic and Legendary defensive buff monsters get in those respective levels? This leaves heroics untouched for now until we get more tools to work with.

 

[justin credible]

Changing DR from flat to percentage makes total sense in a vacuum. We do not live in a vacuum though. In Epics, this is fine. Between gear and EDs, there are plenty of tools to adapt and overcome. However, in Heroics, this is going to be brutal. We do not have very many tools available.

As an example, imagine a new player rolls a Thief Acrobat to be a staff Rogue. This new player encounters tons of zombies and has no way to get Slashing on to their staff. They do not have an alternate weapon type to use swap to and still get to use their Acrobat tree with. This new player is just punished because they enountered a Zombie. That sure sounds like a quit moment to me. This is easily solvable with more gear and build options that can be added, but they are not in the game yet.

I appreciate wanting to make the system easier to maintain, but until we have better tools in Heroics, can this be rolled out incrementally? Just start with say tying the new DR to the Epic and Legendary defensive buff monsters get in those respective levels? This leaves heroics untouched for now until we get more tools to work with.

maybe 10% + 1% per CR of the mob

 

[Terpilar]

Rubies of Slashing Strikes, Bludgeoning Blows and Puncturing Punches

Because every made-up magic problem should eventually find its made-up magic solution.

 

[Nickodeamous]

I ran some testing on this and have a few notes:

• Im not sure if this is WAI, but if you slot a ruby of good into an offhand thats NOT a weapon, it doesnt work to break DR. Im sure it has to be in the attacking weapon
• 50% seems extreme. If you don't have bludgeon because to took slashing line, that basically means skellies and other mobs now are 50% damage. Im sure thats the intent, but i think 50% is a bit much. I would think 20-25% would be a better feel throughout leveling. If you think about it, most of the DR bypasses come at later levels.

I dont know, i have mixed feelings here...

 

[nobodynobody1426]

It's only -50% if you are not prepared.

It's 50% for everyone because of how DR works in this game.

 

[nobodynobody1426]

maybe 10% + 1% per CR of the mob

No, just no. Monsters have CR's of 60~70 or higher in legendary.

Just have it only in raids and based on difficulty level, this is really just a "fix" for players killing 40M HP boss's too fast for the developers liking.

 

[rabidfox]

Im not sure if this is WAI, but if you slot a ruby of good into an offhand thats NOT a weapon, it doesnt work to break DR. Im sure it has to be in the attacking weapon

Each weapon has to break DR on their own to do damage.

 

[Igognito]

It should scale based on difficulty. 50% should be on elite+
Normal should be 25 hard 35 or something in those lines.
This change will make the game harder for new prayers otherwise.

 

[Buddha5440]

It's 50% for everyone because of how DR works in this game.

Nope. I will not be seeing a -50% because I have things to break all DR's except for the rare dr/-.

 

[nobodynobody1426]

Nope. I will not be seeing a -50% because I have things to break all DR's except for the rare dr/-.

Flat DR is very common, one of the most common in the game. As for everything else, combo DR's become problematic as well as anything with barbarian levels and champion DR's get added to the base monster creating impossible scenarios.

This has already been confirmed via testing.
So yeah, decent idea, terrible execution. Monster DR in general needs a revamp first, then it's possible to look at changing it from flat reduction to percentile.

 

[Igognito]

The more I think it the less I like it tbh.
Monsters also have PRR which now means two types of absorption.

They want to go 5e but I don't think it is a good idea.

I would agree that DR needs to be rescaled but to change it like that is going to be troublesome.

 

[Contessor]

Only way this works is to change the whole fillagree system to not slot into weapons. I actually support the DR changes otherwise. Many suggestions were to have fillagrees slot into a separate inventory system not related to the items. This way you can swap weapons freely and not affect your fillagree slots.

Not implemented a change like above makes this whole DR system change a horrible QoL thing to manage. But concurrent with a redesign to fillagree slotting, I love the change and flavor add of the old appeal that the old heroic green steel weapons had on the game.

 

[nobodynobody1426]

The more I think it the less I like it tbh.
Monsters also have PRR which now means two types of absorption.

They want to go 5e but I don't think it is a good idea.

I would agree that DR needs to be rescaled but to change it like that is going to be troublesome.

Anyone who's taken a moment to look through or become familiar with the games current DR system knows this is going to be bad. Too much unbreakable DR, compound DR not to mention straight up type DR (BPS) for this to be anything but a 50% nerf to everyone. This is especially true in late epics / legendary content where you run into extraplanar monsters or other higher CR entries from the monster manual.

 

[Rosze]

I think the DR change without giving good way to bypass dr is going going to be a terrible change. We are pigeon holed into using one weapon because of the sentient system. For most people changing around weapons is not realistic.

Also I ask that the DR is its own legendary DR where it doesn’t affect most areas but just end game. At cap I can see this change working but carrying few weapons at low levels sounds tedious and just not fun.

 

[f1b041b3]

In Epics, this is fine. Between gear and EDs, there are plenty of tools to adapt and overcome.

I wouldn't be sure about that. It's just not feasible for many optimized end game builds designed around specific named weapons, sometimes rare and often raid drops, to fit in the dr bypasses that are available. Nor is it sensible to suggest weapon swaps because of reasons that have already been repeated more than once.

Rubies of Slashing Strikes, Bludgeoning Blows and Puncturing Punches

Because every made-up magic problem should eventually find its made-up magic solution.

Yeah, this game needs less micromanagement, not more.

 

[Spellsinger]

April fools! Wait it's September!?!

 

[nobodynobody1426]

Yeah, this game needs less micromanagement, not more.

Or it gets so much worse when you realize that the current implementation of multiple type DR is that you must pass all of them.

Meaning you need Good+Silver+Blunt, or Evil+Byskah+Piercing, not to mention there exists monsters that require "Epic" typed weapons, which do not exist.

 

[f1b041b3]

Also I ask that the DR is its own legendary DR where it doesn’t affect most areas but just end game. At cap I can see this change working but carrying few weapons at low levels sounds tedious and just not fun.

I don't think this is reasonable. A player grinds for two Golden Age weapons so that he can trade for the one he needs, and then grinds a raid for the materials to upgrade it to Undying before he grinds some more to add an extra effect. And now, because that weapon doesn't possess any inherent damage types beyond the basics, it's only doing half damage on the mobs that matter.

The more I talk about this change, the more I hate it.

 

[The Narc2]

I don't think this is reasonable. A player grinds for two Golden Age weapons so that he can trade for the one he needs, and then grinds a raid for the materials to upgrade it to Undying before he grinds some more to add an extra effect. And now, because that weapon doesn't possess any inherent damage types beyond the basics, it's only doing half damage on the mobs that matter.

The more I talk about this change, the more I hate it.

You just need to spend the time and money to do it all again for an alternate DR weapon, the game needs the revenue and you should get a really big dopamine kick when you have your weapon sets complete.

 

[Enoach]

I'm a fan, this makes breaking DR meaningful. The return of the Golf bag and away from the one weapon to rule them all. Ofc that means the DR breaking buffs also become important and useful.