U82 Preview 1 - Monster DR Rework

[Diaari]

I'm really interested in this change. I think it will be for the better. It will force DPS builds to wake up and pay attention to what they're hitting and also makes spell damage look more appealing.

This may be shooting yourselves in the foot when it comes to the buffs to throwing builds, though. The highest-level shuriken that can be blunted is Legendary Arc Ricochet from Sharn. I can't find a blunt throwing dagger. The highest-level blunt dart is Epic Returning Snowball. So what are throwing builds supposed to do when they pull up on a dracolich?

Combined with the issue that others have mentioned regarding improved critical feats, I think this just made blunt weapons the new meta. Or at least decently competitive to the point that it's a sideways nerf to VKF since there's no dagger, kukri, or throwing dagger that's blunt. At the least, it's less appealing now to be locked into a weapon type that can't be made blunt.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

you mean you didn't turn your rogue into a trickster?

I turned my rogue into a monk a LONG time ago lol. Arcane tricksters are casters with the rogue icon. Not my thing. I'm talking base rogue and rogue trees.

 

[f1b041b3]

Casters have been doing less than half the damage of martial dps for a couple of years now. Martial dps will still be fine if some mobs lower their dps.

Compared against ranged? Maybe. Melees? No. And a melee that gets killed because he had to go toe-to-toe with a dangerous mob has a 100% dps loss until he can be revived, though Strength of Arms has certainly improved survivability. And this is only at end game of course, as caster builds can easily dominate while leveling. Even if the end game is the only thing you care about, you've grossly overstated the average disparity.

 

[justin credible]

I'm really interested in this change. I think it will be for the better. It will force DPS builds to wake up and pay attention to what they're hitting and also makes spell damage look more appealing.

This may be shooting yourselves in the foot when it comes to the buffs to throwing builds, though. The highest-level shuriken that can be blunted is Legendary Arc Ricochet from Sharn. I can't find a blunt throwing dagger. The highest-level blunt dart is Epic Returning Snowball. So what are throwing builds supposed to do when they pull up on a dracolich?

Combined with the issue that others have mentioned regarding improved critical feats, I think this just made blunt weapons the new meta. Or at least decently competitive to the point that it's a sideways nerf to VKF since there's no dagger, kukri, or throwing dagger that's blunt. At the least, it's less appealing now to be locked into a weapon type that can't be made blunt.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Purifying_Quiver

doesnt this work?

 

[Bjond]

So what if some mobs in some quests take half damage from some builds? Even at half damage those mobs die anyway. You should not need to do full damage to every single mob to have fun

Example: zombies v acrobat qstaff. Swapping is so much worse: loose 45 DS, profile, mp, primary attribute, trance, 20% style haste, and that's not including sentient. So, you have to suffer 50%.

DDO isn't one thing here or there. It's one quest here or there. It's not just one zombie. It's a pack. The pack usually doesn't hurt you because you kill it before it can. Not anymore. It's not a champ here or there, it's the entire pack that stands up and every single one hits you. Now you're dead.

What's the fix? OK, reduce the difficulty. No more R8, maybe you can do R1 or R2 and it *still* takes twice as long and seems like 4x because the entire thing is a low-difficulty slog without any danger.

Don't like that fix? Skip the quest? Half the game is undead. No more saga completions for RL, Chill, Dread, .. etc etc..

Rebuild away from Qstaff? Doesn't matter. Skeletons are in the non-zombie quests for slashing & piercing, though they tend toward much lower hp than zombies.

Build an alternate weapon? Not enough feats to make swapping viable unless you're OK only playing fighter. Most are 100% stuck with a single weapon type.

This doesn't even include the problems from no viable sentient material breaking weapons (for every weapon type) sub-cap.

I can't find a blunt throwing dagger. The highest-level blunt dart is Epic Returning Snowball. So what are throwing builds supposed to do

All ranged do blunt damage plus their regular type: L29 Purifying Quiver. The problem is that "fix" is not available before L29.

this method allows the Devs to reduce HP on enemies instead of an ever increasing amount of HP

What? No, this method is NOT the only way to do that or even the cheapest. You do a ton of great stuff for the game, but implying that a DR change is required for HP v Damage scaling is a pretty bold lie.

It would be TRIVIAL to add a global percentage reduction that applies to everyone or even simply as an internal HP-scalar. They could do that per zone or per mob or (as we've seen with casters) by skull difficulty and damage type. They could adjust MPRR values, which are already an HP v Damage scalar for identical effect or add any number of other methods that do not touch DR.

No, they want DR in particular for something other than HP scaling; the insane value combined with an existing player-solution mechanic points at the classic make a problem, sell a solution schtick. The problem with the problem is that it's so big, they convinced me to solve it today, not waiting and buying the solution when the problem goes live (hopefully with a solution for sale).

---

So, instead of logging in to chase my TR plan, I'm checking out other games. This is very normal for me. I've been half-leaving DDO for the last 5y -- back for some new build or bored and drifting to other stuff.

The timing is dissapointing. I was looking forward to using a new acrobat build and maybe reworking other things, but this utterly kills acrobat and I have no desire to be restricted to fist monks, fighters, and casters.

My only worry is that the full patch will kill all my chars; that would be a full punt, not the usual weekly raid-only drift.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I turned my rogue into a monk a LONG time ago lol. Arcane tricksters are casters with the rogue icon. Not my thing. I'm talking base rogue and rogue trees.

that just means you are not playing the game the right way

please report to the compliance department

 

[Rusty_helmet]

I hope it would be done like that but I would not assume it. Seems just as likely that the devs would decide by fiat that one is enough for anyone. That would be fine for some builds and very destructive for others.

Don't ever assume anything of how the devs will think or act. State what you want and how you want it. Give evidence as to why it is good or bad. They'll make their own decisions.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Don't ever assume anything of how the devs will think or act. State what you want and how you want it. Give evidence as to why it is good or bad. They'll make their own decisions.

and if your helmet is rusty you should probably visit your local cleric

 

[Rusty_helmet]

that just means you are not playing the game the right way

please report to the compliance department

That's at least an upgrade from how I was playing the game, which was not at all for about a year...

 

[Cmecu]

It doesnt matter, they like messing the game up. There are so many higher priority things to work on and yet they want to mess with DR, or teleporting cast times, or kings forest Grim disturbance.. etc... It amazes me how a round table talk brings up petty stuff, but ignores the real issues in the game.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

and if your helmet is rusty you should probably visit your local cleric

It's not just my helmet that is rusty these days. I also have a rusty trombone, weapon, and doctor. Luckily, I have my tetanus shot.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

It doesnt matter, they like messing the game up. There are so many higher priority things to work on and yet they want to mess with DR, or teleporting cast times, or kings forest Grim disturbance.. etc... It amazes me how a round table talk brings up petty stuff, but ignores the real issues in the game.

This was a specific move to change up the meta. Crossbows and Shuriken were 100% making the game very stale. With the melee feat changes, dragonlords (my dragonlord among them) were very much deforming the environment. These changes should open it up for new creations and new classes to come forth. The fact that 90% of melees were running 6-8 levels of dragonlord should have told you that change was coming. They even said that in October there'd be a large balance pass coming.

 

[justin credible]

Example: zombies v acrobat qstaff. Swapping is so much worse: loose 45 DS, profile, mp, primary attribute, trance, 20% style haste, and that's not including sentient. So, you have to suffer 50%.

DDO isn't one thing here or there. It's one quest here or there. It's not just one zombie. It's a pack. The pack usually doesn't hurt you because you kill it before it can. Not anymore. It's not a champ here or there, it's the entire pack that stands up and every single one hits you. Now you're dead.

What's the fix? OK, reduce the difficulty. No more R8, maybe you can do R1 or R2 and it *still* takes twice as long and seems like 4x because the entire thing is a low-difficulty slog without any danger.

Don't like that fix? Skip the quest? Half the game is undead. No more saga completions for RL, Chill, Dread, .. etc etc..

Rebuild away from Qstaff? Doesn't matter. Skeletons are in the non-zombie quests for slashing & piercing, though they tend toward much lower hp than zombies.

Build an alternate weapon? Not enough feats to make swapping viable unless you're OK only playing fighter. Most are 100% stuck with a single weapon type.

This doesn't even include the problems from no viable sentient material breaking weapons (for every weapon type) sub-cap.


All ranged do blunt damage plus their regular type: L29 Purifying Quiver. The problem is that "fix" is not available before L29.


What? No, this method is NOT the only way to do that or even the cheapest. You do a ton of great stuff for the game, but implying that a DR change is required for HP v Damage scaling is a pretty bold lie.

It would be TRIVIAL to add a global percentage reduction that applies to everyone or even simply as an internal HP-scalar. They could do that per zone or per mob or (as we've seen with casters) by skull difficulty and damage type. They could adjust MPRR values, which are already an HP v Damage scalar for identical effect or add any number of other methods that do not touch DR.

No, they want DR in particular for something other than HP scaling; the insane value combined with an existing player-solution mechanic points at the classic make a problem, sell a solution schtick. The problem with the problem is that it's so big, they convinced me to solve it today, not waiting and buying the solution when the problem goes live (hopefully with a solution for sale).

---

So, instead of logging in to chase my TR plan, I'm checking out other games. This is very normal for me. I've been half-leaving DDO for the last 5y -- back for some new build or bored and drifting to other stuff.

The timing is dissapointing. I was looking forward to using a new acrobat build and maybe reworking other things, but this utterly kills acrobat and I have no desire to be restricted to fist monks, fighters, and casters.

My only worry is that the full patch will kill all my chars; that would be a full punt, not the usual weekly raid-only drift.

its a shame there is no legendary sireth

 

[Diaari]

All ranged do blunt damage plus their regular type: L29 Purifying Quiver. The problem is that "fix" is not available before L29.

Ah, I didn't think to connect that to shuri/dagger/dart! Shows how much I know about throwing builds.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

It doesnt matter, they like messing the game up. There are so many higher priority things to work on and yet they want to mess with DR, or teleporting cast times, or kings forest Grim disturbance.. etc... It amazes me how a round table talk brings up petty stuff, but ignores the real issues in the game.

Also, what are these higher priority things you speak of? The balance pass was a significant high priority issue. Raids consisted of Dragonlord classes, artificer classes (or monk throwers), a tank of some kind and a healer. High reapers would bring a bard at most for CC and mostly because the healing song was enough. It was pointless to bring any other CC because honestly, the melee could CC for themselves and ranged could kill things so fast enemies wouldn't reach them. The most dangerous aspect of r10 was just who was opening the door.

 

[f1b041b3]

Combined with the issue that others have mentioned regarding improved critical feats, I think this just made blunt weapons the new meta. Or at least decently competitive to the point that it's a sideways nerf to VKF since there's no dagger, kukri, or throwing dagger that's blunt. At the least, it's less appealing now to be locked into a weapon type that can't be made blunt.

All melee builds are going to be negatively affected as long as they're doing more than half damage against dr'ed mobs now, except for maybe the odd energy weapon spec, and even then current end game energy weapons can be doubly nerfed according to J1NG's post.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Howdy all! With Update 82, we're changing how Monster DR functions. Rather than each monster having its own DR value, failing to break DR will now reduce your weapon damage by 50%. This means that if you're fighting a monster that used to have DR 10/good, and you don't have a Good aligned weapon, rather than subtracting 10 damage from your weapon attack, your attack will now do 50% less damage.

This is the most imbecilic idea ever voiced by developers. At least in the top three (builder/spender for ED was and still 1st place).

Well... mebbe this time devs can do enuf "fixes" for me to finally get rid of this game. 8)

 

[Darksteel]

Howdy all! With Update 82, we're changing how Monster DR functions. Rather than each monster having its own DR value, failing to break DR will now reduce your weapon damage by 50%. This means that if you're fighting a monster that used to have DR 10/good, and you don't have a Good aligned weapon, rather than subtracting 10 damage from your weapon attack, your attack will now do 50% less damage.

Player DR is unchanged and will function how it does currently.

Note: This change has horribly broken the raid The Hound of Xoriat as Xyzzy uses DR to prevent player-sourced damage - this will be fixed for an upcoming preview!

You there? Is this another of your "tumble" changes - steam ahead irrespective of whether it kills the game or not?

 

[Buddha5440]

You there? Is this another of your "tumble" changes - steam ahead irrespective of whether it kills the game or not?

How does this kill the game? You can simply carry situational weapons. It used to be that people carried an undead, demon, devil, etc beater because they were beneficial.

 

[Wrensel]

This is the most imbecilic idea ever voiced by developers. At least in the top three (builder/spender for ED was and still 1st place).

Well... mebbe this time devs can do enuf "fixes" for me to finally get rid of this game. 8)

What was #2? Heroic Resolve, where monsters just randomly broke free from all crowd control they were in after 12 to 60 seconds? Or when they were floating the idea that instant death spells no longer did instant death, but rather 500+ damage?