U82 Preview 1 - Ranged Adjustments

[Arkat]

Repeater will stay, Great Crossbow will go.

Agreed.

I really liked my Great Crossbow build.

 

[Stabitha]

Hello! One of the goals in this Update is to bring some better balance to the Ranged Weapon ecosystem. At the moment, the state of Ranged Weapon builds seems to break down to:

• Crossbow builds are overperforming relative to other Ranged builds, and we have a constant problem point in Endless Fusillade/No Holds Barred, where it impacts performance and represents too much of the DPS percentage to do meaningful balance in other ways.
• Bow builds have been in a state where we've been buffing their raw power, but their attack speed is low and their builds are significantly less powerful than Crossbow or Shuriken builds.
• Thrown Weapon builds are dominated by Monk Shuriken builds, which are significantly stronger than all other thrown builds and punching above their weight in the overall DPS ecosystem.

As a result, we're targeting the following changes in this Balance Pass. Please note that this is not 100% complete, as we are still testing exact speeds and numbers to try and bring these builds closer to each other. The goal is not perfect equivalence across all of these styles and builds, but to bring the outliers closer together and put Ranged in a good spot relative to Melees and Spellcasters.

• Longbow/Shortbow:
  • The Base Attack Bonus speed scale for Bows has been rebuilt by adding a baseline bonus to speed equal across all levels, making Longbow and Shortbow attacks significantly faster across all levels.
  • Manyshot now deals +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier (was 1)
  • Scattershot (in Horizon Walker) now deals +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier (was 1)
  • Manyshot and Scattershot no longer have charges, and instead share an 8-second cooldown. (There’s still one or two other sources of Manyshot Charges out there - let us know what you’d like them replaced with.)
  • Horizon (Core 6 Horizon Walker) no longer grants Manyshot charges, and instead grants +10 Ranged Power.
  • Combat Archery (Epic Feat) now grants Longbows and Shortbows an additional +1 Critical Threat Range in addition to its other effects.
• Crossbows:
  • Endless Fusilade and No Holds Barred are removed entirely. They are replaced with the below single-shot, low-cooldown, high-damage attacks.
  • Battle Engineer's Endless Fusillade replaced with Engine Volley: Crossbow Ranged Attack: +400% Damage, +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier. 6 second cooldown.
    • See the Enhancement Changes thread for further changes to Battle Engineer
  • Inquisitive's No Holds Barred is replaced with Take 'em Down: +400% Damage, +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier. 6 second cooldown.
  • Damage on Rogue Mechanic’s Line Up and Sit Down is increased to +400%.
  • Engine Volley, Take 'em Down, and Line Up and Sit Down now share a cooldown.
• Thrown:
  • We'd initially approached the Shuriken DPS outlier as an issue with 10k Stars, but as we dug further, its superior DPS over other Thrown builds comes down to Ninja Spy Core 2. In addition, the thrown experience at low levels is considered pretty slow. As a result:
  • Advanced Ninja Training (Core 2, Monk Ninja Spy) has its Shuriken bonus to Doubleshot based on your Dexterity cap at a maximum of 50 Dex.
  • Poisoned Coating (Core 2, Vile Chemist) gains the above bonus to Doubleshot based on your Dexterity (with 50 cap), except with Simple Throwers instead of Shuriken.
    • Simple Thrown Mastery (T4, Vile Chemist) allows that bonus to Doubleshot based on your Dexterity to use INT instead if it is higher.
  • Whirling Wrists in Shiradi Champion no longer grants 30% Attack Speed with Thrown Weapons, and instead grants +1/2/3 to Critical Confirmation and Damage.
  • The attack speed bonus from Base Attack Bonus on Thrown Weapons has been raised by 30% at all levels.

There are certainly other oddities and standouts within Ranged, and we may be able to accommodate smaller ones if they can fit into the time we have for this pass.

Let us know what you think here!

@SteelStar sorry but this is a giant copout. As someone who has played arguably as long as you have worked on this game I have witnessed developers gaslight or nerf players anytime they can’t fix something with the game.
I remember the 2 weapon DPS nerf bat because our dwarven axes were doing too much damage. I’ve witnessed our systems being gaslit as creating lag, I’ve seen casters squashed, I’ve seen stats squashed all because of developers unable to fix the spaghetti code.
It’s not DPS breaking the game, it’s SSG refusing to spend the resources needed because it cuts into the profit of a game at its end of life cycle.
Call it what it is but stop penalizing players after putting hours and money into builds we enjoy.

 

[Lichcrak]

Appreciate the buff to bow, animation rework seems solid haste still working is awesome. Curious to see how it'll fall in the endgame scene

 

[in4theride75]

Highly controversial changes, although I'm sure you knew they would be. Overall I'm very pleased with the direction and purely from looking the numbers appear to bring everything far more inline. My biggest concern is that with the removal of double strike cap to melee style and buff to standing damage that it might become an overcorrection. We'll have to see after some testing but I like the direction.

 

[KingKozma]

Hello! One of the goals in this Update is to bring some better balance to the Ranged Weapon ecosystem. At the moment, the state of Ranged Weapon builds seems to break down to:

• Crossbow builds are overperforming relative to other Ranged builds, and we have a constant problem point in Endless Fusillade/No Holds Barred, where it impacts performance and represents too much of the DPS percentage to do meaningful balance in other ways.
• Bow builds have been in a state where we've been buffing their raw power, but their attack speed is low and their builds are significantly less powerful than Crossbow or Shuriken builds.
• Thrown Weapon builds are dominated by Monk Shuriken builds, which are significantly stronger than all other thrown builds and punching above their weight in the overall DPS ecosystem.

As a result, we're targeting the following changes in this Balance Pass. Please note that this is not 100% complete, as we are still testing exact speeds and numbers to try and bring these builds closer to each other. The goal is not perfect equivalence across all of these styles and builds, but to bring the outliers closer together and put Ranged in a good spot relative to Melees and Spellcasters.

• Longbow/Shortbow:
  • The Base Attack Bonus speed scale for Bows has been rebuilt by adding a baseline bonus to speed equal across all levels, making Longbow and Shortbow attacks significantly faster across all levels.
  • Manyshot now deals +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier (was 1)
  • Scattershot (in Horizon Walker) now deals +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier (was 1)
  • Manyshot and Scattershot no longer have charges, and instead share an 8-second cooldown. (There’s still one or two other sources of Manyshot Charges out there - let us know what you’d like them replaced with.)
  • Horizon (Core 6 Horizon Walker) no longer grants Manyshot charges, and instead grants +10 Ranged Power.
  • Combat Archery (Epic Feat) now grants Longbows and Shortbows an additional +1 Critical Threat Range in addition to its other effects.
• Crossbows:
  • Endless Fusilade and No Holds Barred are removed entirely. They are replaced with the below single-shot, low-cooldown, high-damage attacks.
  • Battle Engineer's Endless Fusillade replaced with Engine Volley: Crossbow Ranged Attack: +400% Damage, +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier. 6 second cooldown.
    • See the Enhancement Changes thread for further changes to Battle Engineer
  • Inquisitive's No Holds Barred is replaced with Take 'em Down: +400% Damage, +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier. 6 second cooldown.
  • Damage on Rogue Mechanic’s Line Up and Sit Down is increased to +400%.
  • Engine Volley, Take 'em Down, and Line Up and Sit Down now share a cooldown.
• Thrown:
  • We'd initially approached the Shuriken DPS outlier as an issue with 10k Stars, but as we dug further, its superior DPS over other Thrown builds comes down to Ninja Spy Core 2. In addition, the thrown experience at low levels is considered pretty slow. As a result:
  • Advanced Ninja Training (Core 2, Monk Ninja Spy) has its Shuriken bonus to Doubleshot based on your Dexterity cap at a maximum of 50 Dex.
  • Poisoned Coating (Core 2, Vile Chemist) gains the above bonus to Doubleshot based on your Dexterity (with 50 cap), except with Simple Throwers instead of Shuriken.
    • Simple Thrown Mastery (T4, Vile Chemist) allows that bonus to Doubleshot based on your Dexterity to use INT instead if it is higher.
  • Whirling Wrists in Shiradi Champion no longer grants 30% Attack Speed with Thrown Weapons, and instead grants +1/2/3 to Critical Confirmation and Damage.
  • The attack speed bonus from Base Attack Bonus on Thrown Weapons has been raised by 30% at all levels.

There are certainly other oddities and standouts within Ranged, and we may be able to accommodate smaller ones if they can fit into the time we have for this pass.

Let us know what you think here!

When is SSG going to address the hundreds of issues CURRENTLY affecting the game? It has been years since you did a QOL update. Sure you have trickled a few out over the years but there are bugs/issues in the game that have been here since I started playing in 2009.
And in reply to the above, I disagree that the crossbow builds are OP. I do agree that with some of the changes made over the years have nerfed bows etc. Rather than nerfing xbows, why not make the other 2 (bows and thrown weapons) the same DPS as xbows? SSG seems to have a habit of buffing gear/weapons WAY to much at first, then you realize they are to strong so you nerf them.....usually to much!

 

[KingKozma]

Wow. The build i have played and geared for three years goes "poof." To be fair it's the third time... RIP Warlock build and Alchy Bombardier build. Really not happy.

goodbye to my arti/rogue repeater/runeram build as well :(

 

[Ulmoheart Masamune]

Woodyheart; the Eternal Arcane Archer; would love to see those changes!

Make the Wildhunter 5 pieces do a usefull thing... more dmg!? more speed!? i dont know really...

Thank you!

Namárië

 

[Eleron]

Any chance for an Arcane archer rework too? Any chance of a Paladin KoTC rework too? T5 multiselector or something to add, like Archer Focus or Ranged, to the tree. We have many abilities on KoTC, but they don't scale with melee or ranged power.

 

[Dulkhan]

With the changes to NHB all feats that give special bonuses to bows should also now give those bonuses to GxB

 

[Epicsoul]

I'm curious to see peoples' responses who have tested the changes.

The speed buff is great. It feel great and will improved sustained damage.

My one gripe is I wish manyshot provided a % increase to damage as well. The xbow abilities have 400%, 1 crit range/multi, and a six second cooldown.

 

[Lominal]

• • Manyshot and Scattershot no longer have charges, and instead share an 8-second cooldown. (There’s still one or two other sources of Manyshot Charges out there - let us know what you’d like them replaced with.)

My suggestion is to change 5 pc wildhunter to "10% attack speed with bows". Currently bows are required to use outdated items (ToD set) due to the sheer power of them (10% attack speed). This would offer an alternative thats more acessible with the current endgame.

5 pc filigree sets require fairly heavy investment, and wildhunter aleady gives a lot of RP and DS. This offers a powerful, already existing buff but in a new acessible way.


other thoughts::
- The xbow changes are too much, the changes now put them at lowest attack speed, worst crit profile and lowest DS. they need a substantial damage buff to balance (maybe give them +50 or 100% ability mod to damage like swf/THF? plays into the big but slow theme)

- Bow might be a bit overtuned? I'd have to play with it but they would have: highest attack speed, best crit profile, and competitive DS (testing puts me ~270 under boosts, whish is comparable to post nerf shuri)

- shuri still feels fine, weaker but not useless

 

[plantpower]

While it may look that way on paper, the combination of the whole of Bow changes - especially the large increase in attack speed at all levels - means Bow builds will be doing significantly more DPS than before, even with this change. And especially outside a DPS test window, where you're likely to have enough Manyshot charges to burst down a single for. Less of the DPS is contained in this one set of buttons' burst, and more of it is now in general, sustained damage.

I'm curious to see peoples' responses who have tested the changes.

While the numbers are bigger, the game is less interesting. Burst is a big part of what makes dps play dynamic, since I have to decide when is the best time to crank things up. This many shot change brings us 1 step closer to being rhythm game monkeys who just hit buttons as soon as they're off cooldown because there's no reason not to. I'd rather just have an equivalent passive so I can save my hotbar spot and my fingers from an extra repetitive input. Though turning manyshot into something stronger but longer cooldown would be even better, so there's more commitment to using it and more reward to using it well.

 

[Yamani]

- Bow might be a bit overtuned? I'd have to play with it but they would have: highest attack speed, best crit profile, and competitive DS (testing puts me ~270 under boosts, whish is comparable to post nerf shuri)

Do a break down on this 270 DS.

 

[Hoockbr]

Dont forget Greatcrossbows exists, and they need same buffs as a bow, not same nerf as crossbows

 

[Abramax]

• Scattershot (in Horizon Walker) now deals +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier (was 1)
• Manyshot and Scattershot no longer have charges, and instead share an 8-second cooldown. (There’s still one or two other sources of Manyshot Charges out there - let us know what you’d like them replaced with.)
• Horizon (Core 6 Horizon Walker) no longer grants Manyshot charges, and instead grants +10 Ranged Power.

- Make Scattershot an AOE ranged attack NOT linked with manyshot
- Bonus to manyshot charged with the wildhunter filigree set replaced with a -2 sec CD on Manyshot
- Horizon (Core 6 Horizon Walker) no longer grants Manyshot charges, and instead grants : On critical hits, reduce Manyshot CD by 4 seconds, on vorpal hits reduce Manyshot CD by 8 seconds

 

[Greiskoradon]

The 4th core of Shiradi Champion is +1 Manyshot Charges....

Add +1 Critical Threat Range to Longbow/Shortbow instead.

 

[Teh_Troll]

8 second cooldown is a joke. That will cripple bow builds. just separate the scattershot and manyshot timer

I don't THINK it will, just killed a few kobolds on Lamania in acceptable times.

 

[Synalon]

Really like the direction and the changes look extremely well thought-out. Ranged was overdue an attenuation but it doesn't look like it's been completely gutted.

I'm super impressed with all of this, honestly. There's so much to take in. This might be more exciting than a new expansion even.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Overall I think most of these changes seem reasonable. I haven't done the math or testing yet, so take that with a grain of salt.

• Crossbows:
  • Endless Fusilade and No Holds Barred are removed entirely. They are replaced with the below single-shot, low-cooldown, high-damage attacks.
  • Battle Engineer's Endless Fusillade replaced with Engine Volley: Crossbow Ranged Attack: +400% Damage, +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier. 6 second cooldown.
    • See the Enhancement Changes thread for further changes to Battle Engineer
  • Inquisitive's No Holds Barred is replaced with Take 'em Down: +400% Damage, +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier. 6 second cooldown.
  • Damage on Rogue Mechanic’s Line Up and Sit Down is increased to +400%.
  • Engine Volley, Take 'em Down, and Line Up and Sit Down now share a cooldown.

I'm fine with the removal of endless fusilade and NHB, but the replacement attacks seem a bit weak.
Engine volley may actually be a dps loss for some builds depending on the single shot animation/reload speed. Perhaps consider changing this to +100% damage, "fires as many shots as your crossbow normally fires" instead?

There are certainly other oddities and standouts within Ranged, and we may be able to accommodate smaller ones if they can fit into the time we have for this pass.

Let us know what you think here!

I think this would also be a good time to fix the spam-click to throw faster bug as well. (adjust speed accordingly of course)

 

[Yamani]

Shiradi's manyshot charge could be replaced with Hunts end gains an additional +1 crit multiplier(y'know since adrenaline is getting a nice pair-up ability too).
Wildhunter could add +1 crit multiplier to manyshot/scattershot.