Upcoming "Major Balance Pass" ideas

[Krishna Devi]

Interested to hear suggestions from the community regarding the upcoming balance pass ...

Some ideas to get us started:

1) Either remove the r7-r10 caster dps nerf, or apply it universally to both martial and caster, or at least reduce its severity
2) Slightly nerf the current meta martial dps (repeater, inquisitive, etc) by perhaps 5%
3) Significantly increase the most underperforming martial styles (bow, melee staff, etc) by perhaps 25%
4) Modestly increase caster dps overall by around 10% ...
4a: ... perhaps by adjusting the myth/reap bonuses on items to +1mp/+1rp/+3usp & +3mp/+3rp/+9usp
4b: ... and/or by adjusting the auto-granted epic/legendary feats to +6mp/+6rp/+12usp
5) Improve the underperforming caster dps spells, especially those that are ineffectual at endgame
6) Improve sustained caster single-target dps options; eldritch blast & enervating blast, arcane pulse, arcane bolt, niac's biting cold, eladar's electric surge, divine punishment, reverberate, creeping cold, enveloping swarm, etc thereby providing casters with meaningful raid boss dps options
7) Resolve difficult caster gearing issues with the addition of some multi-tier augments: spell DC, spell lore, arcane/divine augmentation, etc

 

[Krishna Devi]

For raids specifically, buff relevant dots damage and max stacks.

Hi Aaumini

If by DoT damage you're referring to arcane pulse, reverberate, niac's biting cold, divine punishment, creeping cold, etc then I think that's a good idea. I think its important to add an improvement to Eldritch Blast as well.

6) Improve sustained caster single-target dps options; eldritch blast & enervating blast, arcane pulse, arcane bolt, niac's biting cold, eladar's electric surge, divine punishment, reverberate, creeping cold, enveloping swarm, etc thereby providing casters with meaningful raid boss dps options

EinarMal suggested that these spell-DoTs take too long to build up, and that this heavily limits their utility. So in addition to base damage and max stacks, perhaps a shorter cd might also help.

 

[Krishna Devi]

Exclusively regarding the melee/ranged balance (leaving casters aside for the moment), do you guys think the best solution(s) is:

1) Further increase melee durability
2) Increase melee dps
3) Increase underperforming martial dps in general without reference to whether its ranged or melee
4) Reduce only the meta ranged dps, without harming underperforming martial dps
5) Specifically reduce the power of the ranged AOE damage
6) Other

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Probably not 2) Krish, as I think nowadays top end nerfs are more appropriate than buffs, accepting that's not popular, but the others are all viable options IMO, and not necessarily mutually exclusive. I'd lean towards 1) and 4), though would wait to see what the U81 feat impact is first.

---

 

[Dalsheel]

If we're talking about balance, it HAS TO start with:
Bring back the 66% doubleshot penalty for repeating crossbows and the 50% doubleshot penalty for dual shooting.

If the above is not in the "balance pass" then it won't be a "balance pass", but a joke.

@Cordovan @Tonquin

edit: spelling

 

[Krishna Devi]

If we're talking about balance, it HAS TO start with:
Bring back the 66% doubleshot penalty for repeating crossbows and the 50% doubleshot penalty for dual shooting.

Hi Dalsheel Thank you for the post.

I understand those two styles are at the top of the meta at the moment.

In terms of the math, how much would that reduce the current dps of those two styles?

 

[Quartis]

Upgrade all Caster Tier 5 enhancements, Imo they have not enough power/pull. Or are filled with weird things.
Remove Master of X Magic epic feats and give 20 max caster level for all heroic spells by default.
Fav Soul/Cleric need more Fire/Light/Alignment spells in the spell book, most fav souls in LFG are crossbow users because of that.
More Force/Fire/Electric spells for Artificer, it has a caster tree but not many good dmg spells for it.
I'd like to see more magical support that buff all of the groups magical dmg, in heroic enhancements most stuff is just my own magic becomes better. Later added classes are better in this but older classes also should have such.

Imo there is not enough reason to wear Robes, they should give some offensive bonus compared to Light armor.
Medium/Heavy Armor feel a little bit weak because of worser dodge, no evasion, tumble disadvantages, are they really only worth 25 PRR. Maybe make the PRR-BAB Ratio more different from Light Armor.

Rebalance Epic Destinies all over the place.
Buff Dmg SLAs in Exalted_Angel, Holy Fireball could be okay with a bit more dmg per caster level
And the dmg options for Noble Affinity medium aoe heal, buff them to the level of the Primal Avatar SLAs like Reborn in Fire / Thunder Snow / Shard Storm
Make Shadow Dancer Tier 5 useable for melee/ranged (I feel gimped picking it compared to fury of wild or Legendary_Dreadnought)
Caster Epic Strikes should deal more dmg when you go higher in the tree but only Dragon and Magus do that, Also the Single Target ones should deal even more dmg then right now.
Also add a Single Target Force, Evil & Chaos Epic Strike
Add a robot/undead mass medium heal spell somewhere in epic desinties as select able option (not epic strike)

 

[Krishna Devi]

Add substantial on-damage procs

Specifically "on spell cast" procs would help balance caster dps; perhaps in the form of a couple of level 36 augments like "sounding" or "radiant glory", a small but still nice added bit of (single target) dps for casters willing to spare the augment slots.

 

[Krishna Devi]

Imo there is not enough reason to wear Robes, they should give some offensive bonus compared to Light armor.
Medium/Heavy Armor feel a little bit weak because of worser dodge, no evasion, tumble disadvantages, are they really only worth 25 PRR. Maybe make the PRR-BAB Ratio more different from Light Armor.

Hi Quartis,

I agree.

Medium and heavy also provide no-cap mrr which I feel is their strongest feature, not just the slight increase to prr. E.g. I have 210 mrr in medium armor without really trying to max it, just taking low hanging fruit when it comes easy. Im a 20 warlock eldritch blaster and I always prioritize EB dps on all my feats, enhancements, filigree, etc, but still I have 210 mrr.

Anyway, in general I do agree with you. I think robes at 50 mrr cap and light armor at 100 mrr cap are not balanced any more. 10 years ago they were great options, and even 3-5 years ago they were okay. But imo cloth armor (robes/outfits) and light armor could do with some kinda boost. Ive been thinking in terms of raising the mrr cap on both cloth and light armor, but another option might be, as you say, "Robes, they should give some offensive bonus..."

Thank you for your interesting post

 

[Shear-buckler]

My suggestion for balancing armor types regarding MRR is to get rid of the cap and introduce a new variable scaling for MRR that is based on your current armor type.

The damage reduction formulas would be:
Unarmored: MRR/(150+MRR)
Light: MRR/(125+MRR)
Medium: MRR/(100+MRR) (Current formula)
Heavy: MRR/(75+MRR)

This would make stacking MRR valuable for all characters while maintaining a trade-off for evasion and higher dodge, even when below the MRR cap.

I would also suggest arcane self buff spells that bump your armor type to the next tier.

The result is that heavier armor types gets more value from MRR and take less damage at the same MRR level, and the differences would become greater at higher MRR levels.

At 100 MRR the damage reduction would follow:
Unarmored: 40%
Light: 44.4%
Medium: 50%
Heavy: 57.1%

At 200 MRR:
Unarmored: 57.1%
Light: 61.5%
Medium: 66.7%
Heavy: 72.7%

The relative damage taken compared to medium armor would follow:
100 MRR
Unarmored: 20% more damage taken
Light: 11.1% more damage taken
Medium: -
Heavy: 14.2% less damage taken

200 MRR
Unarmored: 28.6% more damage taken
Light: 15.4% more damage taken
Medium: -
Heavy: 18% less damage taken

 

[Krishna Devi]

My suggestion for balancing armor types regarding MRR is to get rid of the cap and introduce a new variable scaling for MRR that is based on your current armor type.

The damage reduction formulas would be:
Unarmored: MRR/(150+MRR)
Light: MRR/(125+MRR)
Medium: MRR/(100+MRR) (Current formula)
Heavy: MRR/(75+MRR)

This would make stacking MRR valuable for all characters while maintaining a trade-off for evasion and higher dodge, even when below the MRR cap.

I would also suggest arcane self buff spells that bump your armor type to the next tier.

The result is that heavier armor types gets more value from MRR and take less damage at the same MRR level, and the differences would become greater at higher MRR levels.

At 100 MRR the damage reduction would follow:
Unarmored: 40%
Light: 44.4%
Medium: 50%
Heavy: 57.1%

At 200 MRR:
Unarmored: 57.1%
Light: 61.5%
Medium: 66.7%
Heavy: 72.7%

The relative damage taken compared to medium armor would follow:
100 MRR
Unarmored: 20% more damage taken
Light: 11.1% more damage taken
Medium: -
Heavy: 14.2% less damage taken

200 MRR
Unarmored: 28.6% more damage taken
Light: 15.4% more damage taken
Medium: -
Heavy: 18% less damage taken

Very interesting idea, Shear-Buckler

I hope the devs consider it

 

[Greatpumpkin]

If we're verbalizing our wishlists, I'd like to see a few QoL changes, such as Mass Bard Song, and/or Mass Blur.

Bard buffing raid groups is a pain in the ass. It's gotten to the point I refuse to chase down people. They either wait for their buff bar to explode, or they don't. And that's pretty much what I tell them when they whine about it.

 

[Krishna Devi]

Regarding providing casters with a balanced and meaningful role in raids.

1) We have EinarMal's idea of boosting non-Dot single target spells like iceberg or (g)ruin, etc
2) We have Aaumini's idea of "buff relevant dots (spells like creeping cold, divine punishment, arcane pulse, & reverberate) damage and max stacks..." as well as EinarMals addendum that DoT spells require a shorter cd to be practical
3) There's the idea that augments with effects like "sounding" and "radiant glory" etc could be added for a boost to single target caster damage
4) We have the idea for some boost to eldritch blast
5) There's ideas regarding a general increase to spell power from one source or another (I suggested through the vehicle of the auto-granted epic/legendary feats and/or through increasing the myth/reap bonuses for usp on named items)
6) And there's ideas regarding adjustments to MCL especially for underperforming spells or spells that are irrelevant at endgame

One or more of these ideas would support caster relevancy in raids.

 

[Krishna Devi]

If we're verbalizing our wishlists, I'd like to see a few QoL changes, such as Mass Buff, and/or Mass Blur.

Bard buffing raid groups is a pain in the ass. It's gotten to the point I refuse to chase down people. They either wait for their buff bar to explode, or they don't. And that's pretty much what I tell them when they whine about it.

Agree

Its not so relevant for the balance pass I guess, but having played mostly bard & warlock since 2006 launch; the individual bard buff-singing every quest/raid gets tedious. Even if it cost a special feat I would certainly want a mass-buff ability on my bard.

 

[Lotoc]

A big issue with spell scaling is they have the biggest multipliers - easily over 1.3k~ spellpower vs what ranged and melee get but heavily restricted increases to base damage for those multipliers, adding a little more spellpower doesn't fix the fundamental issue cause spellpower is already so inflated
Spell damage also lacks as many scaling vectors (not listing debuffs because that goes for all damage)

A weapon has deadly, ability score, M/R power, attack speed, seeker, crit and crit multi, doublestrike/shot, active attacks, riders (imbues, sneak attacks) and even damage multipliers that apply to the total damage like Turn the Tide, Crusade, Chant of Power and Implacable Foe.

A spell has caster level, spellpower, crit chance and crit damage, and only arcane tricksters get a significant rider.
Spells also have the potential to scale with cooldown and cast speed but only sorcs really utilize those.

 

[Willow]

Agree

Its not so relevant for the balance pass I guess, but having played mostly bard & warlock since 2006 launch; the individual bard buff-singing every quest/raid gets tedious. Even if it cost a special feat I would certainly want a mass-buff ability on my bard.

The bard buff is a SONG! Everyone in hearing distance should get it. I am to the point I won't run a bard in raids because buffing everyone is too much of a pita.

 

[Krishna Devi]

I mentioned previously augments with "sounding" or "radiant glory" might be a nice little extra to throw in the mix for the balance pass.

SSG might also wish to consider +1Pact dice and +1Blast dice augments similar to the +1imbue dice augments from Hunt or be Hunted.

 

[Krishna Devi]

Another nice idea from The F2P Guy relevant to this thread:

A new universal caster tree

I like it