Update 66 Preview 1 - Epic Destiny Refresh

[Cyberdine (YezakGai)]

Just putting my vote here to completely revert everything you did to EA. What ya did made it worse than it was for... absolutely no reason. If anything, just make chain cure auto hit the target you have selected, it has huge issues (seen earlier in rabid's video). Also, getting rid of the heal aura when it was something LIKED almost universally is quite strange.

Why exactly is dragon breath some criminal that deserves life in prison? I mean it needed a nerf sure, but if this is the nerf option... just don't change it at all. I'm a melee guy and even I feel the nuclear explosion.

If this thread tells you anything, it's that this first itteration of the balance pass is not quite what we wanted or expected. I hope you listen, and keep adjusting.

Also, can you make like an in game funeral event for tumble? I'm gonna need closure.

 

[Jhozam]

Fury of the Wild​

Most of the adjustments here center on the tree's Epic Strikes. We wanted to boost Quick Cut to make it a more attractive choice versus Adrenaline.

• Core abilities now grant +25 HP
• Great Leveler now applies a 2 second no save knockdown against targets who succeed against the 6 second knockdown. Tool tip upgraded to indicate the save is vs the Balance Skill.
• Adrenaline's cooldown has been adjusted to 9 seconds
• Quick Cut's animation upgraded to use whirlwind (2 hits in a 360 degree area)
• Cutter now always applies to all creatures hit without requiring you to be Quick
• Quick now always applies to you (assuming you hit a creature)
• Cutter damage reduced from 4d6 to 3d6 and is now slashing damage, not bane.

Hello Tonquin,

since you are fixing the destiny, I wanted to point out that on the live server Nature’s Fury does not work on Dwarven Axes and Bastard Swords

Tyvm

 

[Blaster]

Legendary Dreadnought​

Only one change - adjusting the cores to match the aforementioned chart.

• Core Abilities now grant +25 HP

This is unfortunate. This tree could use some boosting. It currently lags behind in terms of DPS, especially something like Legendary Rally, which is a tier 5 ability. As it sits now Rally is akin to something like Boulder's Might for melees, which is a tier 1 ability in Fury of the Wild. Seeing the crit multiplier bumped from +2 to +5 could help make it more of an attractive option, especially being an ability at the highest tier and requiring at least 30 points spent in the tree and at level 30 to get.

Unparalleled Accuracy (5% dodge bypass for 20 seconds activated by an action boost) at core 4 in the tree is unimpressive compared other core 4 abilities in melee-focused trees like Fury of the Wild (Be the Whirlwind) and Divine Crusader (Sunder Evil). When this was first introduced the original version could not be implemented consistently so this is what it was settled on, making it feel like rather an intentional decision, it was something that was done because no one could think of anything better. Perhaps making it more akin to a core ability in the original pre-destiny pass tree that gave a 10% cooldown on action boosts would be more attractive.

 

[Blaster]

Cutter damage reduced from 4d6 to 3d6 and is now slashing damage, not bane.

If you want to make this a more attractive option, reducing the dice and changing the damage type is not going to help. Boosting the damage to something like 6d6 (or leaving it at 4d6) and keeping it bane damage would it more worthwhile. There are multiple enemies that have slashing DR, so having bane damage it helps make it usefull against more enemy types and make it more of an attractive alternative to adrenaline (which is only getting a 1-second cooldown alteration).

 

[Lotoc]

If you want to make this a more attractive option, reducing the dice and changing the damage type is not going to help. Boosting the damage to something like 6d6 (or leaving it at 4d6) and keeping it bane damage would it more worthwhile. There are multiple enemies that have slashing DR, so having bane damage it helps make it usefull against more enemy types and make it more of an attractive alternative to adrenaline (which is only getting a 1-second cooldown alteration).

Bane is worse than slashing damage for a damage over time.
DR does not reduce dot damage as it's technically spell damage.
However, PRR debuffs and vulnerability will boost a slash dot but not a bane dot.
In a raid scenario the DoT is going to see an increase of 30-100% damage depending on how stacked your raid is on debuffing.

 

[Ivor]

Magus of the Eclipse​

• Grand Summoner moves to multiselect with New Tier 4 Lunar Studies, and is now part of the Destiny Mantle

Please don't make this change. Being able to dip into Magus to grab this is a huge boon for someone who likes to solo with pets and hirelings. The run speed bonus alone makes them so much more useful (especially the absurdly slow moving scarecrow and feywild muse).

Hireling/pet bonuses are so few and far between. Please don't lock this one away behind a huge point investment, higher level requirement and forcing the use of a specific mantle. I will be quite sad if this happens.

 

[Lazuli]

I disagree. I think the spell is good enough that it should require a commitment, like committing to a tier 5 in a destiny. But the cooldown should be addressed.

Weird is a lv 9 arcane spells in PNP. It's not better than banshee. It's ridiculous steal spells from spell list and using It as Epic spells.

 

[Jeronimo]

Sad panda here.... ?

I've enjoyed DI and EA for quite some time now, soloing low reaper quests on my sorceror. This will end now with this ED nerf pass.

I guess I'll roll up a meta build instead for my next life... going razorclaw 18/1/1.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Adrenaline's cooldown has been adjusted to 9 seconds

Since you didn't even come close to bringing up other melee strikes to the same level as Adrenaline I suggest you change the cooldown to 12 seconds and cut the bonus damage in half.

 

[Dunceneo]

Shadowdancer​

• Epic Strike: Becomes a beam like Lightning Bolt instead of being single target. Cooldown adjusted to 8 seconds. (note: the Lightning Bolt targeting is not working in this preview!)

What does this mean? I hope that only affects the caster version and not the overall strike. I mean, you already nuked so much all the other destinies that i won't bother trying to fix my alts and will convert them to mules, but, my main uses shadowdancer as a melee. You wouldn't force a melee to take a caster strike, right? I'm sorry but from you guys i expect the worst, always.

 

[Aaumini]

The change to Weird looks like a pretty big nerf to me.

Sure, being an SLA means you can apply Metas for free which is good - but the cool down is long so thats largely irrelvant.
On the other hand being an SLA means that cool down reductions do not apply - so rather than a 36 recast time you now have a 60 sec recast time (if you have all reductions).

In my book thats one major nerf and possibly not intended. Maybe atleast lower recast time to 45 sec to compensate?

Or make it a multi-selector for SLA or spell version.

 

[ACJ97F]

Fatesinger​

Renamed "The Rhythm to Reign" to "Pianissimo"

This has already become a running gag with our Bard, and will never get old. :LOL:

Paladin: At least the Bard's generating less threat.
Rogue: Yeah, but now he's "______________". [Yeah, I can't post that.]
Bard: .... Grr.
--------------------------------------
Dragon's Breath hammer seems overkill, even compared to the usual tactical tweaking.
Angelic Form and Soul... OOF... Nothing more to say. That will dissuade people from EA.

 

[voenixa121]

I think its pretty boring how the magus mantle is now the same as the primal and draconic mantle. How about some more diversity? Honestly i dont know what was wrong with the old mantle. It worked pretty well on melee caster hybrids like dark apostate.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Now you are taking what I wrote out of context. I did infact mention the R10 raid but very much also noted that it was the most extreme example and that the same principle did apply to raids on lower difficulties and quests. Please reread the post in question before going out on a tangent about R10 raids

I'm not sure why you quoted MA in the post above, but that's not my focus here.

As for me taking your point out of context, if so, it's not intentional.

Apologies for being pedantic and possibly a bit paranoid here, but I think it important given I've already been called a troll (rescinded, accepted) and now am apparently accused of taking things out of context. So to be clear...

You'd written...

"...melee dominate as the difficulty goes up. Most noteable when LD posted about pushing R10 raids but certainly also in lesser settings. Sure, anyone can do most quests on R10 as the game has gotten easier but martial dps wins big time when you get to the mobs that matter (hint - its not the trash or the kill count)."

I interpreted that as you saying the differences were most notable in r10 raids pushing, and were pretty dismissive on other difficulties claiming anyone can do most r10 questing, whilst you did imply the principle applied, you did not do so in a way that gave the same weight to lesser difficulties imo, and I was therefore responding to the effect that I don't consider that r10 raiding a representative balancing basis based on the emphasis you were, to me, placing on that. TBH I was rather surprised it was even mentioned. Hopefully this explains my response and the context in which I responded to your comments.

If we apparently now both agree on the opinion r10 raids aren't representative for balancing, then sorry for the confusion on my part and thanks for the clarification. ?

 

[Wizard]

I got only 2 things to say here:

1) removing healing mantle is terrible for healers/divines and ALSO kills the solo game fun for many lower end and casual players (often forced solo, not enough population, healing hirelings don't work they are buggy and squishy).

What was the reasoning here? Who complained about exalted mantle?


2) Why do you overnerf things so much? Big nerfs are never popular.

Dragonstrike got 61% (!) nerf.

Primal DOTs strike got nerf by up to 50% or more with lower DCs.

Exalted mantle basically nerfed by 99% because a melee range AOE ring as a caster just doesn't work.



Please take a hint from other MMO games that do balance more in the +/- 5% to +/- 20% range.

 

[voenixa121]

I think it's a bit sad how many abilities are just copies of other in another color.
Also the most annoying thing about adrenaline and hunts end for me was always the constant activating.
I would make them a bit more passive. I know you may not have time for anything fancy anymore, but still some suggestions maybe for the future.
Hunts End could work passive like this for example:
Hunts End: Your ranged critical hits deal +50% damage.
or
Hunts End: Every 5 seconds you gain the Finish the Hunt buff. Finish the Hunt: Your next ranged attack deal +100% damage.
Adrenaline could work more with health and/or lost health mechanics, that are part of the tree and the barbarian class:
Adrenaline: You deal extra melee damage depending on your missing health, up to +200% damage at 10% health.
Adrenaline: You deal +5%/+10/+15% extra damage with melee attacks per 100 temporary hit points you have.
Adrenaline: When below 50% health you deal +100% melee damage, this buff remains for up to 10 seconds after healing over 50% health.
Adrenaline: When hitting at least 2 enemies with a single melee attack you deal +100% damage to all targets.

Magus always struck me as the instant kill tree. Some suggestions for Moonlance/Gloomspear that don't just increase it's damage dice:
Moonlance/Gloomspear: You deal 1d6 cold/negative damage to a single enemy and apply 3 stacks of shattermantle. Non-boss enemies take extra bane damage equal to 5% of their maximum hit-points.
Moonlance/Gloomspear: You deal 1d6+6 cold/negative damage to a single enemy and apply 3 stacks of shattermantle. Enemies that are hit lose 1 fortitude and will save for 10 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.

And lastly, you just lowered magic damage in high reaper. Now you increase the damage dice of many epic strikes/-spells. Also how much higher saves and health will new enemies have? It seems that this is just totally pointless, it will just increase the numbers shown on screen.

 

[4slight]

Somehow my skeletal knight takes damage from negative now, think Magus broke him.
Summoned skelly, Death aura slowly killed him lmao :ROFLMAO:

 

[Lotoc]

Magus always struck me as the instant kill tree. Some suggestions for Moonlance/Gloomspear that don't just increase it's damage dice:
Moonlance/Gloomspear: You deal 1d6 cold/negative damage to a single enemy and apply 3 stacks of shattermantle. Non-boss enemies take extra bane damage equal to 5% of their maximum hit-points.
Moonlance/Gloomspear: You deal 1d6+6 cold/negative damage to a single enemy and apply 3 stacks of shattermantle. Enemies that are hit lose 1 fortitude and will save for 10 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.

I honestly disagree.
Single target spell epic strikes absolutely should do more damage than they do on live, really this entire time they should have been doing more damage than dragon breath because its only hitting a single target and its sharing a cooldown with dragon breath.

DC casters have one major problem and that is "what do they bring to the table when mobs are deathwarded or when you reach a boss" this is when single target damage is most important, I feel a healthy structure for DC casters who excel at control and instakills is for them to also have access to potent single target dps tools while nukers focus more on aoe/collateral damage.

Nukers right now outclass DC casters 90% of the time at a DC caster's main job because often killing a pack of mobs is one spell for either (actually far more for a instakiller as they actually have target limits), but nukers on top of that have damage for bosses.

Giving DC casters secondary support in single target damage shores up that major pain point while not stepping on the toes of nukers nearly as much as nukers have stepped on the toes of DC casters.

And lastly, you just lowered magic damage in high reaper. Now you increase the damage dice of many epic strikes/-spells. Also how much higher saves and health will new enemies have? It seems that this is just totally pointless, it will just increase the numbers shown on screen.

The epic strikes being buffed are all single target and have been pathetic for the last 2 years, yet nothing is being buffed to nearly the level dragon breath was at.
2d6+20 with no maximum caster level was genuinely too much to go slapping on an aoe while all other epic destiny spells were at most 1d6+6 mcl 20.

Also where are all the people who insisted fatesinger strike was fine at 1d6+1 right now?

 

[Beast]

I'll try to give my contribution, if possible.

EXALTED ANGEL
To me is quite a bummer, I was using the mantle healing to overcome difficult challanges, sure it was too much, but removing it seems quite bad decision to me.
LEGENDARY DREADNAUGHT
There should be a better synergy with ranged classes too, like OVERPOWER that doesen't work with ranged.
Why a ranged should not benefit completely of Dreadnaught?
NERFS and "rebalances"
I will not say anything untill I have had a chance to try it more, but, what concerns me as many, is the maximum level of the skills, that should be removed, and also, if you are planning on rebalancing, considering the higher levels, it's not a good idea, you should instead lower the power from higher levels instead of lowering the base.
We should not struggle at lower level for the good of end game, but we should have a continuous challange through the whole gaming experience.
BONUS
Give more Scion choices.
I think that a more balanced scion better suited for melee and or ranged would be a good addition to the pool

 

[Ooblagato]

• Carrion Swarm gains a saving throw interval to remove the dot.

Carrion swarm getting a nerf for the edge cases that it's good strong (prolonged fights on big enemies) is disappointing. Enemies being able to clear the DoT on a save will hurt it significantly, even for someone who has gone heavy on dcs.

• Carrion Swarm DOT damage bug fixed to actually be 1d6+1 per 2 character levels.

This concerns me as I'm fairly sure it was getting 1d6+1 per 2 character levels *per acid/poison damage type*. Just want to make sure that's not an oversight.