Update 66 Preview 1 - Epic Destiny Refresh

[Monkey_Archer]

Why is it, EVERYTIME there is a level limit increase there is a bunch of DPS nerfs which we essentially get back with the level.
When the wife said there is a level increase coming I said there be nerfs to the Caster DPS just watch.
The dragons breath nerf is a bit brutal, the holy Fireball Nerf was also a large nerf.

I don't know why you can't just balance out the dps increases and reflect it in the new content, its math Not magic.

Because there are 3 options with game development:
1) Nerf to accomodate power creep
2) Introduce new difficulties/content to accomodate power creep
3) Let power creep destroy the game

Nobody really wants #3, and most people dislike #1. #2 seems to be off the table for some unknown reason.

 

[Meowcifer]

What was the reasoning behind eliminating the EA heal aura? Think many of us would like to know.

Anything is better than crickets. The players are obviously concerned.

Silence is not the best customer service tactic sometimes.

If I had to guess, probably to try and extend quest completion times. Though the real meta is to just not get hit in the first place
Another reason might be to try make SP a relevant constraint on healers, since they can't really nerf how much SP a class gets without also impacting Casters of said class.

Personally, EA aura is just Quality of Life. The heals that matter are going to be reactive and situational like when someone takes 98-101% of their hp in a single hit (thanks unconsciousness range). Any of the passive ticks aren't going to help there, and honestly the tier 5s generally aren't worth taking when Divine Intervention is just better, at least in higher difficulties when people drop in less than seconds. In situations where the auras are/could be useful (mostly raids, such as MA lightning floor or Skeles hand), spamming mass heals will work almost as well.

As far as solo play as some have brought up, EA Aura has enabled builds yes, but the aura also doesn't have to be your only source of healing. Some builds will not be playable without it, and that's okay. Frustrating for sure, but soloing also shouldn't be easy. It should be doable, but the game is balanced around having a group of players.

The only reason I see that aura is actually necessary is that it is generally 'good enough' during extended lag spikes, but of course we don't have any of those in DDO ever.

 

[Lazuli]

Quick further update in response to feedback on Draconic Incarnation:

• Dragon Breath's damage is now 1d6+5 from 1d6+3
• Dragon Breath's upgraded damage is now 1d6+10 from 1d6+7

A big reason for the change is that no other Destiny ability required pure or nearly-pure classes to use - originally in the ED designs we leaned way harder on Spellbook Modification, and Weird was the last little bit of that. In practice, however, it punished multiclasses and made some variant builds harder to explore than they should be. In that respect, making it a SLA makes it easier for all characters to use.

About weird, I like the idea that it is now an SLA, it is something that I had already proposed before. But can you add the spell to the list that it rightfully belongs to? It's something long overdue.

Thanks for listening to people about dragon breath. I think the nerf is still too high, currently spell damage is far behind melee damage. But at least it's not a nerf so big.

 

[Toblakai]

Quick further update in response to feedback on Draconic Incarnation:

• Dragon Breath's damage is now 1d6+5 from 1d6+3
• Dragon Breath's upgraded damage is now 1d6+10 from 1d6+7

And will the MCL be the same as it is currently on live?

 

[Lotoc]

Quick further update in response to feedback on Draconic Incarnation:

• Dragon Breath's damage is now 1d6+5 from 1d6+3
• Dragon Breath's upgraded damage is now 1d6+10 from 1d6+7

A big reason for the change is that no other Destiny ability required pure or nearly-pure classes to use - originally in the ED designs we leaned way harder on Spellbook Modification, and Weird was the last little bit of that. In practice, however, it punished multiclasses and made some variant builds harder to explore than they should be. In that respect, making it a SLA makes it easier for all characters to use.

A big discrepancy between dragon breath and other spell epic strikes is it has no maximum caster level vs the others having MCL 20, as the level cap gets higher and higher it means dragon breath will overtake the others by a larger margin.
MCL wasn't addressed at all in the initial post, is it going to be touched on?

I feel epic strikes and epic spells (like holy fireball) really shouldn't be MCL 20, it's a bit awkward for something with character level scaling to have finished most of it's scaling before you even get it and it's jarring that one Epic strike gains 3 caster levels every 2 as the others gain 1 every 2.

 

[Rull]

Let us know which SLAs have that issue and we can take a look!

Fire Savant's T5 Fireball is a good example, it's useless because of the bad targeting and I've never taken it on a fire sorc (except to try out if it is still bugged)

 

[DBZ]

If this is really about balance then nerf all melee and ranged damage by a minimum of 33 percent to start

 

[Lazuli]

And will the MCL be the same as it is currently on live?

If not, it would do much less damage than acid well (1d6+18), and it wouldn't be very epic. I have to try it in the next iteration of lammania, to see what damage it does. Because I expect an epic spell to be epic.

 

[MisterVan]

Let us know which SLAs have that issue and we can take a look!

The answer is almost all SLAs.

In my experience, all SLAs of these types have this problem:

• AoE Projectile (Fireball-like)
• Rays
• Bolts
• Cones

Without a hard target, they fire in the general direction the character is facing, but they always fire at a straight angle forward regardless of whether the camera is pointed up or down. This means that for something like a Fireball SLA, you must have a hard target to direct the projectile toward the ground, or else it will fly straight forward (and usually miss).

The only SLAs that don't have this problem are ones that cast an AoE on an area you are looking at, without a projectile. Such as Holy Smite and Lightning Motes, for example.

I recorded some footage(you might have to click into each one to see it play). Here are some examples:

On sorc, I cast a normal fireball looking downward, then cast the SLA version. The normal spell follows the same direction my camera is pointing, the SLA version flies straight forward.

https://imgur.com/0ocQiGs

On Favored Soul. I cast Sun Bolt, Holy Fireball, and Searing Light SLAs. They all shoot straight forward:

https://imgur.com/YxmKhs9

On Artificer, Lightning Bolt and Blast Rod SLAs fire forward. However, Lightning Motes SLA correctly targets the ground, due to the type of AoE it is:

https://imgur.com/FMKqxCo

Lastly, Wizard. Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast fly straight forward. Same for Necrotic Bolt:

https://imgur.com/q45Sl6r

I should reiterate, this affects basically all SLAs with these qualities, not just these examples. I think they've always behaved htis way, as far as I can recall.

 

[Reifee - Orien]

• Holy Presence and Angelic Soul have swapped places
• Holy Presence is now: "While in your Exalted Angel Destiny Mantle, you gain 15% damage absorption to all Elemental (Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, Poison, Sonic) and Alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic) damage."

Rather then the healing Aura are you kidding?

Thats even worse then the dragon breath nerf.

Ugh.

 

[Lazuli]

A big discrepancy between dragon breath and other spell epic strikes is it has no maximum caster level vs the others having MCL 20, as the level cap gets higher and higher it means dragon breath will overtake the others by a larger margin.
MCL wasn't addressed at all in the initial post, is it going to be touched on?

I feel epic strikes and epic spells (like holy fireball) really shouldn't be MCL 20, it's a bit awkward for something with character level scaling to have finished most of it's scaling before you even get it and it's jarring that one Epic strike gains 3 caster levels every 2 as the others gain 1 every 2.

Yes, epic spells should not have max caster level. Or at least have a cap like 45 or so (in anticipation of the level up, we don't want them to become obsolete).

 

[Rull]

Quick further update in response to feedback on Draconic Incarnation:

• Dragon Breath's damage is now 1d6+5 from 1d6+3
• Dragon Breath's upgraded damage is now 1d6+10 from 1d6+7

Talking strictly about the base version, how did you come to
Dragon Breath: 1d6+5 with a save, on a 12 second cooldown
and: Macrotechnic's strike: 1d6+6 without a save, on a 10 second cooldown?

What is the interesting choice for the player to make here? How do come up with these numbers? Should't one strike have some advantage but also some disadvantage over the other?

 

[droid327]

Should't one strike have some advantage but also some disadvantage over the other?

The advantage is Dbreath is able to be upgraded to higher damage

Also Draconic is a better tree for most casters, which means you dont have to splash MT just for the Strike and can take Primal+Shadow or something

 

[Lazuli]

Talking strictly about the base version, how did you come to
Dragon Breath: 1d6+5 with a save, on a 12 second cooldown
and: Macrotechnic's strike: 1d6+6 without a save, on a 10 second cooldown?

What is the interesting choice for the player to make here? How do come up with these numbers? Should't one strike have some advantage but also some disadvantage over the other?

I agree. The problem is that the devs have bought into the story of dragon breath's intrinsic evil blah blah. They shouldn't nerf so much Dragon Breath, it's not necessary and it's not even balanced.

 

[QuantumFX]

Outside my issues about the healing aspect for the EA mantle's redesign; I've now begun to look at it for divine nukers and it's something I don't like. It forces one to be in melee range (well circle range) to do extra damage to mobs and most caster/nukers really like to keep a distance. So we go from fire/light damage added onto spells from a distance to having be to up close to do extra damage (and we lose light damage). Feels bad to me. It's entirely counter to how I play cleric and FvS for damage.

This is also a problem with Fatesinger's mantle for folks trying to make a Sonic based nuker.

 

[Lazuli]

Quick further update in response to feedback on Draconic Incarnation:

• Dragon Breath's damage is now 1d6+5 from 1d6+3
• Dragon Breath's upgraded damage is now 1d6+10 from 1d6+7

By the way, since you nerfed the epic strile, what about improving the wings, which have much worse cooldown than EA's wings being a tier 5, and none addtional effect? The epic moment is pretty poor too.

Improve what's wrong besides nerf dragon breath, please.

 

[glass_jaws]

While I think the real change that Dragonbreath needed was just a cap on the caster level to match the other strikes, I do get the reason for it. IMO it's not as much about balancing Dragonbreath. I think Dragonbreath removes a lot of choice from players as is if they want to feel "competitive", and honestly without a level cap on it, it will still be better than the other strikes over time.

 

[Rosze]

I think negative energy casting is still massively underpowered in higher levels for anything but a palemaster. Would like to see an addition to Magus of Eclipse to allow for stripping immunity since undead foes are everywhere. Id love to have it on the aura similar to druid immunity strip, but id even take in on a single target spell at this point.

 

[Aelonwy]

No epic spell strike should have a max caster level. We are going above level 20 for a reason aren't we? We are epic characters aren't we? Supposedly becoming Legendary, yes?

 

[Lazuli]

This is also a problem with Fatesinger's mantle for folks trying to make a Sonic based nuker.

Yes, I tried to make it work with a fey warlock, but it didn't convince me. For a bard the ED works, but for the warlock it left a bad taste in my mouth.