Update 66 Preview 1 - Epic Destiny Refresh

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Kaish'Talan

Well-known member
Hi,

I have 2 questions :
1. Shadowdancer : Is it possible to have different icons for T5 Shadow Mastery and T5 Shadow Expulsion? It is confusing to have them share the exact same icon.
2. Magus of the Eclipse : Are you changing or removing Great Summoner and replacing it with a new Grand Summoner? I like the Great Summoner at T1 to help boost my Hirelings and Summons. I would hate to see it going to T4 or being remove completely.

Thank you.
 

Elves United

Well-known member
On topic of wierd things, why does the Unyielding tree now require you to skill rule of law? that ability is meh at best.
One solution could be (if you wanna keep it this way) to buff it :) or give celestial mandate a +500 to hit like you did for great leveler. that would feel better, because tanks generally do not quite have the accuracy to hit stuff and generating hate might become a lil more difficult for them because carrion swarm now has a save on it.
This way i still would feel sad about having to skill rule of law, but at least it would apply when i use my epic stike which would make it a little more bareable.
Rule of law is an ability that many a tank do not use. Putting it in the requirement chain is just burning ED points for them.
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
By the way, since you nerfed the epic strile, what about improving the wings, which have much worse cooldown than EA's wings being a tier 5, and none addtional effect?

The draconic wings DO have one slight advantage over the EA version... you do not dismount your horse when using them.
 

Aaabbbcccddd

Just a friendly Spectator
On topic of wierd things, why does the Unyielding tree now require you to skill rule of law? that ability is meh at best.
One solution could be (if you wanna keep it this way) to buff it :) or give celestial mandate a +500 to hit like you did for great leveler. that would feel better, because tanks generally do not quite have the accuracy to hit stuff and generating hate might become a lil more difficult for them because carrion swarm now has a save on it.
This way i still would feel sad about having to skill rule of law, but at least it would apply when i use my epic stike which would make it a little more bareable.
You are defnitly right about The Rule of Law. The ability does around 56 dps = (32*3,5*4)/8 with around 150MP and out of reaper mode. I know calculating dps for a tank is kinda nonsens but even if take the whole proc, thats around 450 dmg. At least give it a humongous hate multiplier if it is kept this way. I didn't mind it before because I could just ignore it, but now I am forced to use it.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
The draconic wings DO have one slight advantage over the EA version... you do not dismount your horse when using them.
Since we can't ride in quests I don't see the advantage. And the cooldown is too big to take advantage of in wilderness. I'd gladly give that up in exchange for a more usable cooldown in quests.
 

popejubal

Avatar of Jell-O
Evasion also doesn't do anything about Horrid Wilting. It's a fort save.
Right. That’s why I am dying to it. If it were a reflex save, I’d be practically immune to it instead of dying to it way too often.

And sadly it’s going to kill me whether I make the sace or not because I don’t have enough HP.
 

Vindiktur

New member
Some of my feedback for the Exalted Angel tree, as it's (in my opinion) the one that needs the most work.

Firstly, something that's been bugging me for a while. I feel like the entire tree's more catered towards healing than caster DPS. Tons of defensive enhancements or Turn Undead stuff - none of those do anything in terms of actual good DPS options (except Shadows Upon You, but it feels bad to spend upwards of 7 AP just for that debuff). Also, as a caster DPS, I absolutely never take Stand And Be Judged and its upgrade later in the tree - it just feels too slow in my opinion. I'd like this tree to be the go-to option for not just healers, but light-based and/or fire-based casters in general (Clerics, FvS, Fiend Warlock, Fire Sorc/Alch).
My suggestions for this tree are:
-Make Stand And Be Judged strip fire immunity, regardless of whether the target is dazed/stunned. Probably fits better within the Delayed Judgement enhancement, but sooner would be much nicer. Tieflings are the go-to option for fire casters for the ability to strip fire immunity, but racial past lives exist, so not everybody's gonna be one during epic leveling. Stripping fire immunity in epics is almost entirely necessary, which feels bad when you're not a Tiefling or a Fire Sorc, especially during raids when almost every raid boss and trash are immune to fire (See Skeletons in the Closet and Fire Over Morgrave, two of the most recent raids). This proposed change would also help with multiclassed Fire Sorcerers, i.e. one that took 2 Acolyte of the Skin levels for the Eldritch Blast (not to say that's a viable build option, but still).
-The Destiny Mantle, as it is in this preview, needs to be more like Eldritch Aura. I saw someone bring that up and it's probably the best implementation for it. Dealing its damage to all enemies in the ring every 4-5 seconds sounds great, particularly for those Enlightened Spirit Warlocks that go into EA. The problem here is with healers and aggro though. Maybe a multiselector between a healing aura and a damaging aura would be better, like what you did with Heavenly Blessing.
-The Epic Moment, while very cool for healers, is much, much less so for caster DPS. Either give some damage buffs during the Epic Moment or make it a multiselector where casters can choose another Epic Moment more suited to their playstyles. My suggestion is: " Epic Moment: For the next 20 seconds, offensive Fire and Light spells you cast deal 1d50 additional Fire and Light damage, curse enemies with Shadows Upon You, and heal you for 10d6+10 Hit Points, scaling with 100% Positive Spell Power. " Obviously numbers can be changed here, I'm only giving example numbers.
 

Sorccadin

Active member
Rule of law is an ability that many a tank do not use. Putting it in the requirement chain is just burning ED points for them.
But it is an requirement now, which as you said is burning ED points. I mean, tanks wont stop using the mantle over it, but im proposing if they wanna pull through with that change to make the ability actually worth something :)
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
Agree. This isn't a melee tree.
Divine crusader doesn't offer spellpower and is very much focused on being in melee range. It just has an awkward epic strike that scales with spellpower and an aoe heal on a martial attack that scales with spellpower.
 

droid327

Hardcore casual soloist
for self healing maybe the mantle that only self heals should have always been self healing more than the aura that heals everybody nearby.
Just a thought.

Then they should've bumped up its healing, not takes away EA's

I'm actually fine if they want to move the EA self-heal tick to Fury mantle instead, and make it self-only. I'm mainly concerned about the effect on soloists of losing the current EA mantle. But if the two options for self-heal mantles are "trivial" and "nothing at all now", neither of those are acceptable options
 

JaynChar2019

Well-known member
So is the energy vortex still going to last for 15 secs or just the same duration as gaping maw
Hi all! I hope your 2024 is treating you well!

With Update 66 we're embarking on a pretty large overhaul of the current 13 Epic Destinies in an effort to adjust their structure, balance, and presentation. This takes the form of some universal changes that apply to all trees, and some specific changes that apply to certain abilities within certain trees. Without further ado, let's get right to it!

Changes to All Trees​

All Epic Destiny Trees have received the following:
  • A pass over their individual icons for readability and iconography - this includes several new icons and edits to existing ones to provide a cleaner and more cohesive within-tree look.
  • All Mantle ability icons now have a color-coded border around their Icon for maximum readability on a hotbar or within a tree.
  • All Strike ability icons now have a color-coded border around their Icon for maximum readability on a hotbar or within a tree.
  • All abilities that upgrade a Mantle or a Strike now have an appropriate border that matches the border of what they're upgrading for maximum visual clarity.
  • Trees have been reordered and rearranged to support more clear Prereq lines in cases where ability upgrades are required - for example, an ability that says "Your Destiny Mantle gains this specific bonus" is now in a line with that Mantle and has arrows to properly convey its relationship.
  • A ton of tooltips have been rewritten, reworded, color coded, and simplified or expanded depending on their needs.
You'll notice this section is almost all about how the trees are presented - and it's something that we hope really makes a difference. But now, onwards to the funky stuff!

Draconic Incarnation​

Most of these adjustments are about Dragon Breath, an ability that we think is quite strong but has overshadowed the other caster-based Epic Strikes and (more importantly) outpaced the intended difficulty of our content. To that end, we're lowering its damage, but are also lowering its AP cost and its cooldown. Other Epic Strikes are being adjusted as well, Draconic just happens to be first and we're starting here!
  • Dragon Breath is now a 1-rank, 2AP Ability.
  • Dragon Breath damage adjusted to 1d6+3 damage per caster level.
  • Energy Vortex now increases Dragon Breath's damage to 1d6+7 damage per caster level.
  • Energy Burst now increases Dragon Breath's damage to 1d6+7 damage per caster level.
  • Gaping Maw now increases Dragon Breath's damage to 1d6+7 damage per caster level.
  • Dragon Breath cooldown adjusted to 12 seconds.
  • Dragon Breath and Attune the Arcane have swapped places in the tree.

Fatesinger​

Fatesinger's largest adjustments are in how it calculates its DCs for its CC abilities. It's also the first tree in alphabetical order to have its cores adjusted, which means this is a great place to talk about our new Core structure for certain destinies.

Quick Interlude for a Chart!​

Going forward, we've standardized the HP and SP so that certain destinies match each other based on their intended playstyle. This mostly resulted in a bump to HP for the Martial Destinies, but we're happy to have a good standard to fall back on when iterating on this system.
Destiny TypeDestiny TreesHP Per CoreSP Per Core
MartialDivine Crusader, Grandmaster of Flowers, Legendary Dreadnought, Fury of the Wild25-
HybridShadowdancer, Fatesinger, Machrotechnic, Shiradi1525
SpellcasterDraconic Incarnation, Magus of the Eclipse, Primal Avatar, Exalted Angel-50
Unyielding SentienelUnyielding Sentienel3520

Back to Fatesinger​

Where were we... right! Fatesinger!
  • Core abilities now grant +15 HP
  • Renamed "The Rhythm to Reign" to "Pianissimo"
  • Renamed "Reign" to "The Rhythm to Reign"
  • DC for Discord abilities (melee/ranged) is now 20 + highest mod + stun DC
  • DC for Greatest Shout + Discord (spell) is now 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + evocation DC

Magus of the Eclipse​

Magus is the first of the trees to get a more significant overhaul to its structure. The big goal here was to provide more traditional spellcasters a way to better utilize the whole tree. We also wanted to significantly boost the damage of the Epic Strikes to make them a more attractive choice for damaging spellcasters.
  • Moon Lance and Gloom Spear now deal 1d8+8 damage per caster level
  • Chill Aura is now multiselected with: "Flash of the Eclipse: While in your Magus of the Eclipse Destiny Mantle, your Cold and Negative spells have a chance to blast your target for an additional 1d6+6 damage per character level of the same type as the spell used, as well as applying one stack of Shattermantle. Each element can only strike once every 5 seconds, tracked separately."
  • Share the Light now requires Chill Aura as a prereq
  • Null Magic Strike is now multiselected with Share the Light and moves down in the tree to Tier 3
  • New Tier 4 where Null Magic Strike was: "Lunar Studies: While in your Magus of the Eclipse Destiny Mantle, you gain Spell Resistance, Magic Resistance Rating, and Magic Resistance Rating Cap equal to 3 times the number of Metamagic feats you've acquired."
  • Grand Summoner moves to multiselect with New Tier 4 Lunar Studies, and is now part of the Destiny Mantle
  • New Tier 1 where Grand Summoner was: "Moontouched: +2/4/6 Magic Resistance Rating. Rank 3: +5 Negative, Cold, Force, and Universal Spell Power"
  • Lunar Imbuement is now: "Casting Moon Lance or Gloom Spear grants you +5 Negative, Cold, Force, and Universal Spell Power for 12 seconds, and these spells apply 5 stacks of Vulnerability to the enemy struck."
  • All Core abilities now grant +1 Spell Penetration each
  • Core 4 now grants +3 Spell Pen (which is still total of 7 across all 4 cores + 3 from core 4, but is now spread out a bit and easier to access)
  • Lunar Power is now: "+10 Negative, Cold, Force, and Universal spell power. Your Moon Lance and Gloom Spear spells now deal 1d12+16 damage to enemies with 0 or less Spell Resistance."
  • AP costs of several abilities have been adjusted to try to get this tree closer to the goal of 60-ish AP for all abilities like other Destiny Trees. It's still below other trees, but now the margin is less severe.

Machrotechnic​

Only one change - and it's cooldown timer related.
  • The cooldowns of the Hammer Time spells and the damaging Epic Strikes have swapped places - leaving the Sonic and Electric Epic Strikes at 10 seconds and the Hammer spells at 15 seconds.

Divine Crusader​

Only one change - adjusting the cores to match the aforementioned chart.
  • Core Abilities now grant +25 HP

Exalted Angel​

Another tree to receive a larger overhaul. Most of these changes are centered around the Mantle and the Epic Moment. A new mechanical sub-theme within this tree is abilities that boost your Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. Furthermore, we boosted the damage of the Epic Strikes significantly.
  • Holy Fireball damage adjusted to 1d6+4 Fire and 1d6+4 Light damage per caster level. Cooldown Adjusted to 10 seconds.
  • Divine Protection is now: +1/2/3 Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. Rank 3: +5 Fire, Light, Positive, Alignment and Universal Spellpower.
  • Metamagic Attunement II in tier 5 no longer grants spell power (was moved to tier 2 Divine Protection)
  • Metamagic Attunement II now has proper feat prereqs
  • Sun Pillar and Flame Pillar now deal 1d8+8 damage per caster level
  • Angelic Form is now: "Casting a Fire, Light, or Positive spell causes a flaming blade barrier ring to erupt around you. Enemies entering or leaving the ring take 1d6 Fire and 1d6 Light damage per caster level, and allies entering or leaving the ring are healed for 1d6 plus 1 per caster level in positive energy (this healing and damage has a short cooldown to prevent weirdness). The flaming ring lasts for 5 seconds per spell cast, but subsequent casts extend the duration by 5 seconds each up to a maximum of 30 seconds."
  • Angelic Body is now: "While within your Exalted Angel Destiny Mantle, you gain +5 Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating, and are immune to Natural Poisons and Natural Diseases.
  • Angelic Soul is now: "You also apply Consecrated Cinders to enemies when they touch your flaming Blade Barrier ring, and apply Consecrated Sparks to allies that touch your flaming Blade Barrier Ring. Consecrated Cinders: -5 Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. Consecrated Sparks: +5 Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating"
  • Holy Presence and Angelic Soul have swapped places
  • Holy Presence is now: "While in your Exalted Angel Destiny Mantle, you gain 15% damage absorption to all Elemental (Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, Poison, Sonic) and Alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic) damage."
  • Blessed Water's Rank 3 now also grants +15 Magical Resistance Rating if you have the Font of Life feat
  • Shadows Upon You now also reduces Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating by 1 per stack.
  • Ascendance is now: Epic Moment. For the next 20 seconds, your single-target Cure Wounds spells you cast on any target now instead apply to all allies. These spells cannot crit. For the duration of this ability, Raise Dead and Resurrection also raise your target to full HP like True Resurrection does.

Grandmaster of Flowers​

Almost all of the adjustments here are centered on the Epic Strikes.
  • Core Abilities now grant +25 HP
  • Drifting Lotus Epic strike now deals +10/20/30% damage
  • Orchid Blossom Epic Strike now deals 1d6+10 damage per caster level
  • Fixed ranged power scaling on Orchid Blossom
  • Fixed tainted creature boost on Orchid Blossom

Legendary Dreadnought​

Only one change - adjusting the cores to match the aforementioned chart.
  • Core Abilities now grant +25 HP

Shadowdancer​

Another tree to get a slightly more in-depth overhaul, focused on beefing up the Mantle a bit and boosting the Epic Strike.
  • Core abilities now grant +15 HP and +25 SP.
  • Epic Strike: Becomes a beam like Lightning Bolt instead of being single target. Cooldown adjusted to 8 seconds. (note: the Lightning Bolt targeting is not working in this preview!)
  • Shadow Mastery Epic Moment's activation time has been significantly reduced
  • Weird is now a SLA instead of a Spellbook Spell, with the same cost and cooldown as it had before
  • Consumed by Shadows debuff attack from t5 now also applies Shadow Loss and 3 stacks of Darkness to affected enemies.
  • Mantle t5 upgrade's shadowy floating vfx and feather fall moves to the T2 Mantle upgrade, Depths of Darkness
  • New t5 to replace Greater Shadowform: Unholy Feeding: On kill, you gain 6 temp HP per sneak attack dice. You also gain +10 Force and Universal Spell Power and are immune to Pressure Plates and Bear Traps.

Fury of the Wild​

Most of the adjustments here center on the tree's Epic Strikes. We wanted to boost Quick Cut to make it a more attractive choice versus Adrenaline.
  • Core abilities now grant +25 HP
  • Great Leveler now applies a 2 second no save knockdown against targets who succeed against the 6 second knockdown. Tool tip upgraded to indicate the save is vs the Balance Skill.
  • Adrenaline's cooldown has been adjusted to 9 seconds
  • Quick Cut's animation upgraded to use whirlwind (2 hits in a 360 degree area)
  • Cutter now always applies to all creatures hit without requiring you to be Quick
  • Quick now always applies to you (assuming you hit a creature)
  • Cutter damage reduced from 4d6 to 3d6 and is now slashing damage, not bane.

Primal Avatar​

Note: this entire tree's adjusted state is not in this preview! These changes are entirely about the tree's Epic Strikes.
  • Carrion Swarm DOT damage bug fixed to actually be 1d6+1 per 2 character levels.
  • Carrion Swarm gains a saving throw interval to remove the dot.
  • Spring to Summer AOE damage adjusted to 1d6+6 per Caster Level. It's still doubled in Tier 3 (to 2d6+12)
  • Storm Catcher single target damage adjusted to 1d8+8 per Caster Level. DOT damage adjusted to 1d6 every 2 seconds per Caster Level.

Shiradi Champion​

For this tree, we wanted to make Fey Lights stronger and broaden the tree's ranged DPS appeal. This is also the debut of a cool new feature, Exploding Arrows, the details of which are in another thread!
  • Core abilities now grant +15 HP, +25 SP
  • Feywild Attunement's Base Attack Bonus now works regardless of weapon type.
  • Fey Lights now deals 1d6+3 Force damage per caster level, scaling with Force Spell Power.
  • Core 4 is now: "You gain +1 Saves vs Spells, with an additional +1 for every Favored Enemy feat you've acquired. +1 Maximum Manyshot charge."
  • Hunt's End goes from an 8 second to a 9 second cooldown
  • Pin is now: "AOE Ranged Attack: Make a Ranged Attack that shatters on impact, hitting all enemies in a small area around where it lands. If a moving enemy is affected, they are slowed for 12 seconds. 15 second cooldown."
  • Otto's Whistler's Immobilize and Dance effects when upgrading Pin have been reduced to a 6 second duration (though still with no saving throw) as Pin's ability to lock down groups is now significantly stronger.

Unyielding Sentinel​

This tree actually received no changes!

Conclusion​

This is an early preview, which means we're very interested in your thoughts and feedback on these changes. Please let us know what you think!
So is the energy vortex still going to last for 15 secs or just the same duration as gaping maw and energy burst now that you are going to make them all the same damage rate? It seems that the reason to have the vortex option was damage over time at a lower damage rate and the two other options were for a quick strike that did double the damage. I'm just not seeing the logic here to make all three options the same damage rate. Especially if the vortex lasts for 15 secs it is the obvious choice to take. If it doesn't it really doesn't matter which one you choose as they all do basically the same thing as proposed.
 

Thar

Well-known member
You make a pretty compelling case. Initial thoughts from the team are that we're probably going to leave the original on-spellcast burst-of-damage as a multiselector so you can enjoy either playstyle if you want the original sauce or the new Blade Barrier.

So, to that end:
  • New Multiselector with Angelic Form: Wrathful Form: "Your offensive Fire spells deal 1d6+6 bonus Fire damage per caster level, and your offensive Light spells now deal 1d6+6 bonus Light damage per caster level. Your Positive Healing spells heal 1d6 extra Positive Healing per caster level. These damage effects each have a unique cooldown of 5 seconds." (this is pretty much what was here before, but with slightly different heal scaling and no % chance)
  • Angelic Soul now has: "You apply Consecrated Cinders to enemies when your Wrathful Form damages them, and apply Consecrated Sparks to allies when your Wrathful Form heals them. Consecrated Cinders: -5 Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating. Consecrated Sparks: +5 Armor Class and Physical and Magical Resistance Rating"
my healer just wants the healing aura back... i don't care about DPS as a healer. i need to keep others and myself up in the chaos.
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
The big thing I'm looking to solve is that newcomers to the thread aren't seeing our dev responses. I hate to commit to this since it's a TON of work but I'm wondering if I should be editing the original post with links or something when we make feedback-based adjustments?

My suggestion would be to have a 'Revisions' section at the bottom of the original post and then add new links to it as changes get made. Something like;

Revisions
Exalted Angel mantle reworked based on feedback
Dragon Breath damage increased based on feedback
SLA ground targeting will be fixed for all spells
Tactical Training Room tactical training room DC adjustment now shown
Bug preventing Lotus Bloom from being learned fixed

That list took me about two minutes by just getting the list of your recent posts, copying the link from the time code for each, and pasting them in with the default link tool.
 

CBDunk

Well-known member
Bombardier capstone multivial can't be ground targetted, regular multivial can.

Yeah, all of the Alchemist (and Artificer) 'throw vial' type animations for SLAs tend to hit the ground directly in front of your feet... rather than following different arcs based on the up/down angle the camera is set at like the spell versions.

Hopefully, these will be included in the upcoming fix to SLA ground targeting.
 

Tonquin

of Lightning Hammer fame!
So is the energy vortex still going to last for 15 secs or just the same duration as gaping maw

So is the energy vortex still going to last for 15 secs or just the same duration as gaping maw and energy burst now that you are going to make them all the same damage rate? It seems that the reason to have the vortex option was damage over time at a lower damage rate and the two other options were for a quick strike that did double the damage. I'm just not seeing the logic here to make all three options the same damage rate. Especially if the vortex lasts for 15 secs it is the obvious choice to take. If it doesn't it really doesn't matter which one you choose as they all do basically the same thing as proposed.
That's a good point - I have edited the OP and my previous posts to reflect a more accurate state of what's happening. You are right in that Vortex is going to continue to use the base Dragon Breath damage for its tics over time.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
Why do any eds get any heal mantles then nerf eas nerf the rest too then thats balance

So your saying i can go fury can get free helpless damage on spell casts too by 18 percent
 
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