Update 66 Preview 1 - Epic Destiny Refresh

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Beast

Well-known member
So,

The other side of this. If this was Balancing, Why are some under powered epic destines not being improved? Just call it like it is. A game changing nerf to pull some MinMax builds in line. They did the same thing with the nerf to holy smite which turned it into a spell I rarely mem.
I hate to say it, but it seems lame. If your going to adjust the gameplay do it thoughtfully and give something back

the Healing Aura change to +5 PRR +5AC, +5MRR. Seriously? None of that Does really ANYTHING at the level you aquire it.

GO back to the drawing board.

You don't like the healing because of the amount? Fine. TUNE it. You know, review the numbers, find an acceptable number and apply that.

The design team are either being lead incorrectly, or they are just not listening to the playerbase and playing ignoring them.

Jaded to say the least.
that's a sum of all that has been said in 38 pages.
I agree 100% with what you just said
 

Oliphant

Well-known member
Anybody see the nerfs to EA Mantle in advance? Seems way out of line with reality to "fix" EA mantle. Is this fixing a super niche issue with peak skull raiding or something?
 

Sorccadin

Member
So,

The other side of this. If this was Balancing, Why are some under powered epic destines not being improved? Just call it like it is. A game changing nerf to pull some MinMax builds in line. They did the same thing with the nerf to holy smite which turned it into a spell I rarely mem.
I hate to say it, but it seems lame. If your going to adjust the gameplay do it thoughtfully and give something back

the Healing Aura change to +5 PRR +5AC, +5MRR. Seriously? None of that Does really ANYTHING at the level you aquire it.

GO back to the drawing board.

You don't like the healing because of the amount? Fine. TUNE it. You know, review the numbers, find an acceptable number and apply that.

The design team are either being lead incorrectly, or they are just not listening to the playerbase and playing ignoring them.

Jaded to say the least.
It seems that the removal of self-healing and the healing aura from Exalted Angel is driven by some players consistently using it to solo Legendary Raids. While I recognize the impact on lower-powered builds, the tree itself, along with the accessibility of renewal/rejuvenation at a reasonable cost, should not severely hinder the casual player base's enjoyment of leveling on Elite/Reaper 1 difficulty.

Legendary Raids are intended as group endeavors, and although this change affects solo raid play, it may be a positive adjustment. The automatic healing provided by EA is convenient rather than necessary, and while the 5 AC may seem low, the inclusion of PRR and MRR is justifiable considering the point investment. I don´t know how you build casters/ healers, but more resistences are always nice.

I find the idea of debuffing with the new mantle quite appealing. However, if it's restricted to the proposed multiselector for damage, I'm skeptical that most casters would opt for it over the proc damage.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
Anybody see the nerfs to EA Mantle in advance? Seems way out of line with reality to "fix" EA mantle. Is this fixing a super niche issue with peak skull raiding or something?
It's probably mostly to address melee characters with no spellcasting and no interest in spellcasting going into a tree for spellcasting just for a self heal aura that's massively outdoing the self heal mantle in an actual melee tree and realizing that they don't want to buff fury mantle to that level because "That'd be way too strong" and realizing it's way too strong a feature.
 

Elves United

Well-known member
IMNSHO: Any build that is only extremely effective on a 5 min timer has no place in the game.
Oh it's an effective build without the epic moment. During the epic moment it goes gangbusters.
And really any build that is gangbusters all the time is either slumming it on easy content or has no place in the game.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
It's probably mostly to address melee characters with no spellcasting and no interest in spellcasting going into a tree for spellcasting just for a self heal aura that's massively outdoing the self heal mantle in an actual melee tree and realizing that they don't want to buff fury mantle to that level because "That'd be way too strong" and realizing it's way too strong a feature.
I don't see how this can be considered a problem. If someone chooses the EA mantle instead of a melee mantle, they are losing A LOT of dps. It's a fair trade off.
 

Wizard

Well-known member
@ Tonquin

Can you please give the reasoning behind EA healing mantle removal?

If it was because it causes lag, then maybe make it not stack. Then in full groups and raids, a healer can still use it. And solo and low man players are not negatively affected.

If it was because people could solo/low man raids too easily, then maybe nerf it in raids with less than x people.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
They already have the best dps and the best defenses they don't need the best heals too thats the trinity thats balance
 

droid327

Well-known member
Legendary Raids are intended as group endeavors, and although this change affects solo raid play, it may be a positive adjustment. The automatic healing provided by EA is convenient rather than necessary, and while the 5 AC may seem low, the inclusion of PRR and MRR is justifiable considering the point investment. I don´t know how you build casters/ healers, but more resistences are always nice.

It's convenient for groups...for soloists it's far more central to their survivability

Solo leg raiding obviously isn't intended, but...is it really that huge a deal if someone in an extreme build can solo LN? Does that detract from people trying to run it LH or LE in a proper group?

Plus, there's better ways to limit that than simply nuking the heal aura entirely for everyone. Like, heck, just require at least two people to enter leg raids. Or give raid bosses a defensive buff that makes it hard to damage them if only one person is attacking. Don't demolish solo because it's standing in the way of niche raiding
 

Wizard

Well-known member
Don't demolish solo because it's standing in the way of niche raiding

This. Please don't underestimate the number of casual players (in most MMOs they make up the vast majority of the playerbase).

I'm pretty sure quite a few rely on the healing mantle to have a relaxing and fun playstyle in epics (since hires are non-functional...)

They typicallly don't post on the forums, if their playstyle and fun is dimished too much, they just leave the game. Lowers population even more.
 

Baahb3

Well-known member
I've completely lost the original post in this thread that suggested this, but quick update from feedback:
You now have 39 pages of feedback and I would say a large number of posts around the removal of the healing aura in EA. Yet you have remained silent on why this was done despite numerous asks for some rational on this change. Don't remain silent on this change. Give us some reason behind this terrible decision. Is this another hardcore change? Is it a performance change? Is it a middle finger to healers? WHAT?!?
 

lppmor

Well-known member
  • Trees have been reordered and rearranged to support more clear Prereq lines in cases where ability upgrades are required - for example, an ability that says "Your Destiny Mantle gains this specific bonus" is now in a line with that Mantle and has arrows to properly convey its relationship.
Hi @Tonquin,

So you are rearranging trees to better support prereq lines..
I'm a game developer myself, and I always enjoy these kind of changes to simply make the system more consistent/harmonious.
Can I suggest a change in the Primal tree in this respect?

Currently the Epic Strike (tier 1) leads to the SLA Primal Spell (tier 2), which leads to Thrive (also tier 2), and then leads to At Its Core (tier 3). This is way too weird. Tier 2 not only has a weird horizontal arrow (which is not harmonious by itself IMO), but it connects the SLA to Thrive which has absolutely nothing to do with the SLA (and actually modifies the Epic Strike). Also, there is no reason to gate the Primal Spell behind the Epic Strike.

My sugestion:
1) Remove connection from Epic Strike (tier 1) to Primal Spell (tier 2), and instead go Epic Strike (tier 1) > Thrive (tier 2).
2) Now go Primal Spell (tier 2) > At Its Core (tier 3) with a straight up arrow.
 
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FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
You now have 39 pages of feedback and I would say a large number of posts around the removal of the healing aura in EA. Yet you have remained silent on why this was done despite numerous asks for some rational on this change. Don't remain silent on this change. Give us some reason behind this terrible decision. Is this another hardcore change? Is it a performance change? Is it a middle finger to healers? WHAT?!?
a good rule of thumb for giving feedback is dont be a d**k about it
 

Ellisaria

Well-known member
Plus, there's better ways to limit that than simply nuking the heal aura entirely for everyone. Like, heck, just require at least two people to enter leg raids. Or give raid bosses a defensive buff that makes it hard to damage them if only one person is attacking. Don't demolish solo because it's standing in the way of niche raiding
As you said in that same post "is it really a huge deal" why even spend the dev resources to write those restrictions (player count, boss debuff) in? If so few people ACTUALLY are able to solo LN raids, why even spend the effort. I'd imagine SSG would have the actual numbers on how often LN solos are attempted/succeeded. Also with the couple requirements, a player could get around by multiboxing. Seen boxers getting all their accounts into a quest where the host doesn't quite click the door and auto attacks instead, then the box accounts follow up with an auto attack in unison. Putting in player count restrictions in wouldn't necessarily "solve" that problem.
 

Reifee - Orien

Well-known member
Why not just remove the aura from affecting the person casting it.

don't let it work if its solo? Let it also help the surrounding people.

Or have it drain health from the user?
 
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