Its the same reason why i no longer even pull out heroic GS HP items any longer. Back in teh day, before Epic PLs and Reaper HP Bonuses, this was like 25% or more of your total HPs at lvl 11. Not so much any more. Just underwhelming for levelling when everything dies in 1 or 2 shots anyway.
Update 69 Preview 2: Items
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Baahb3
Well-known member
@SteelStar Please explain the push to put Legendary bonuses on Heroic items, as an Epic feat. What is the thought process on this? Do you just want to inflate PC hit points so you can justify some new stupid damage buff you are going to give every damn creature out there? To make up for this ridiculous wild magic crap that we are going to run into?
And I am going to keep saying it. You have no Legendary tank feat. When is this going to happen?
And I am going to keep saying it. You have no Legendary tank feat. When is this going to happen?
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
Legendary Toughness?
I think he is implying to a feat that boosts a defensive stance.
If thats the case, I personally do not want to see that. It makes cleric tanks, arty tanks, barb tanks, warlock tanks, all kind of inferior. Although a Scion of Protection would be cool. +20 Intim, +15% stacking HP bonus, 50% stacking threat gen, +10 stacking AC and all healing amps.
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Baahb3
Well-known member
I am talking about the Legendary feat you get to pick at Level 30. All the Scion feats. There is nothing that is tank focused. Celestia for the HP? And the HPs are the only part of that feat that makes sense. Everything else is a joke for a Tank.
Baahb3
Well-known member
And I don't care if it boosts a defensive stance. Give it a Legendary Bonus to AC. Absorb bonus while actively blocking. Legendary bonus to threat generation. Bonus to Intimidate. Bonus to hit (because tanks usually have crappy to hit bonus).
Something, anything, that would benefit tanks.
Something, anything, that would benefit tanks.
Baahb3
Well-known member
Yes, exactly. Something that makes sense for tanks, any tank to take.
so your saying you wouldnt use this item for an extra 15% hps from lvl 13 - 30 its exactly the same bonus you get on the higher lvl cape just swap a few items around easy legendary health bonus and a sun augment and blue slot ... imo this cape is too op
Spook
Ghostly Troll
Yes as I don’t die from 13-30. If it was a moon slot I would consider it for the moon slot not for the hp%
Because it is a % it already scales with level there’s no need to have a lower % on heroic than legendary.
SpartanKiller13
Why do I have 411 .ddocp files
Having lower % values in heroics doesn't make sense to me
Like 5% of a 500 HP toon is +25 HP, it's basically just a different stacking False Life or something. 15% is at least a meaningful amount. Yeah it's numerically a lot of HP for a 1k level 15 toon, but it probably won't change the cases where they die vs the cases where they don't very often (going afk, plagued + cc + champs, veng stuff? Hmm). It is, however, more meaningful to a vet vs "wow who cares about +11 sacred false life" or some other stacking effect.
I'll probably get and use the cloak if I don't need stats, but at lvl 15 I have a whole set of +8/+3 mental stat cloaks so might depend a bit. It's a great choice if you have a free slot lol.
Like 5% of a 500 HP toon is +25 HP, it's basically just a different stacking False Life or something. 15% is at least a meaningful amount. Yeah it's numerically a lot of HP for a 1k level 15 toon, but it probably won't change the cases where they die vs the cases where they don't very often (going afk, plagued + cc + champs, veng stuff? Hmm). It is, however, more meaningful to a vet vs "wow who cares about +11 sacred false life" or some other stacking effect.
I'll probably get and use the cloak if I don't need stats, but at lvl 15 I have a whole set of +8/+3 mental stat cloaks so might depend a bit. It's a great choice if you have a free slot lol.
yeah you dont die from 13 - 30 but there are characters out there with hardly any passed lives or any at all +15% hp at lvl 13 is far too powefull it should be more like +5%
ChickenMobile
Well-known member
Steelstar explained this in Fridays at Four with Cordovan. He said it was a possibility these augments could be introduced to other Heroic/Epic/Legendary loot. Therefore a level 30 item with a Sun Slot will simply just 'work' with the current legendary gems and scale correctly.
(The video @12:04)
Anurakh
Little Nixie
I do see it. I would like a 10% spell points boost augment, and that bonus is missing in the most recent sets.
You may not be able to use it, but I would love it. I still carry two greensteel pieces for this, among other things.
Anurakh
Little Nixie
That could be amazing.
Spook
Ghostly Troll
Great sounds like you agree that not all melees will use this item.
Epicsoul
Lava Divers Assistant to the Regional Manager
I like the idea of a Scion of Protection. My personal wish list would be: 10% HP, +20 PRR/MRR, +20 to all healing amplifications, and +10 AC and to hit.
So characters that need it, you are advocating it’s too good? Hmmm. At lvl 13, a low past life character, on a squishier class, might have 200HPs before equipping, and 230HP after equipping. Oh goodness what noob power.
voenixa121
Well-known member
If it's not needed then why put it on an item? I too fear that this is just a sign of further power creep. Give us more health now to increase enemy damage later. Pointless.
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
Personally I think the heroic version is bugged with the legendary version of hp in the last preview. I suspect the actual heroic hp % boost will be lower for the heroic items next update. As an example the solar gem of enduring gives a 5% hp bonus at heroic levels and 10% at legendary levels. I would expect gear to follow that pattern and be about half of legendary. So 7-8% on the cloak and 10% on the tower shield.
In terms of hp, on a stand-alone basis it's arguably the single most important stat in the game in my opinion.
If a new hp bonus is added at heroic levels it's making the game easier from 13-30 for some percentage of players.
Mathematically, it's not enough to overcome 1 skull of difficulty as going from R1 to R2 results in 25% more damage from enemies and you are only doing 86.7% damage. The % from skull-to-skull increases as you go up skulls.
Since the priority for leveling for most people is speed it's unlikely to change much for groups zerging R1s. It could be very impactful for solo players, esp those new to reaper mode or struggling making the transtion from elite to R1.
Using a tower shield has a big trade-off in terms of dodge so it's appropriate to provide the largest bonus there. Assuming the legendary cloak is 15% with threat for all builds, that seems like a good solution for non shield tank builds. My fear, based on experience is that people will bring this item to casual raiding turning an easy completion into a messy one. So I hope this item clearly shows on the player buff bar so we can remind people to take it off for raids. I've seen people rage quit when being politely asked to turn off their defense stance so they stop turning the boss.
In terms of hp, on a stand-alone basis it's arguably the single most important stat in the game in my opinion.
If a new hp bonus is added at heroic levels it's making the game easier from 13-30 for some percentage of players.
Mathematically, it's not enough to overcome 1 skull of difficulty as going from R1 to R2 results in 25% more damage from enemies and you are only doing 86.7% damage. The % from skull-to-skull increases as you go up skulls.
Since the priority for leveling for most people is speed it's unlikely to change much for groups zerging R1s. It could be very impactful for solo players, esp those new to reaper mode or struggling making the transtion from elite to R1.
Using a tower shield has a big trade-off in terms of dodge so it's appropriate to provide the largest bonus there. Assuming the legendary cloak is 15% with threat for all builds, that seems like a good solution for non shield tank builds. My fear, based on experience is that people will bring this item to casual raiding turning an easy completion into a messy one. So I hope this item clearly shows on the player buff bar so we can remind people to take it off for raids. I've seen people rage quit when being politely asked to turn off their defense stance so they stop turning the boss.
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Look further back. Steelstar said the bonus is intentional to be the same for heroic and legendary.
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