Update 69 Preview 3: New Feats

[Spook]

Who cares if your basics are slower when you are blowing up packs with cleaves?

Umm you are aware that they changed cleave to scale with attack speed right?

 

[Zvdegor]

Yeah, I don't like feats with penalties in them. Like Improved Fortification. I still run into new players now and then who can't understand why they suddenly can't be healed...

Yes Improved Fortification especially good if you wear that new doecent with HEAL AMP on it !!!

 

[RobShow]

In my opinion, the purpose of DEVs with Tumble and ''charging'' is very clear.
Slow down the speed of players within the game so that the video is more enjoyable for those watching live streams.

 

[Shear-buckler]

There is ample evidence in this thread to point to how confusing this feat is for most folk. Consider the folks on Lamannia are some of the most ardent DDO gamers.

I don't object to an "interesting game mechanic" for experienced players, but if we consider noob-medium experienced players that can nerf their build upon taking a legendary level and then not understand how their relative kill count dropped, well, that's gonna be tough to explain and if you purchased the feat, it'll be a bitter pill to swallow.

That is an absolutely appaling attitude. The game should not be intentionally dumbed down just because you think people are stupid. There is plenty of room in the game for mechanics that require some thought and consideration. There is a massive untapped design space for these kinds of feats that will add a lot of depth and customization to the game and they should use it.

 

[Eme]

That is an absolutely appaling attitude. The game should not be intentionally dumbed down just because you think people are stupid. There is plenty of room in the game for mechanics that require some thought and consideration. There is a massive untapped design space for these kinds of feats that will add a lot of depth and customization to the game and they should use it.

I disagree, I think it sets a bad precedent that doesn't bode well for future development

 

[Lacci]

The more previews I see, the more I regret spending money on Myth Drannor ...
Those 3 second duration feats will probably be eaten up by lag. By the time the server registers you´ve pushed the button, the 3 seconds are already over.
The attempts to make something out of tumble seem almost desperate. They could just add a feat that gives people the old tumble without charges back...

 

[Kitty2Meow]

Over 8 pages of robust, engaged, thoughtful feedback from the players. Anyone else both simultaneously excited to see if we get an equally engaged dev partner to respond & worried this will be rushed out the door with the most minor of tweaks?

Kinda feels like Daybreak has SSG on a rigid schedule and Lamannaia is crowd sourced quality review. That is, our feedback may be heard, a few months after the expansion goes live...I'd love to be wrong here as I want to be inspired to rebuild the alt-army...looking for inspiration

From the past experience of previous expansion packs, last review usually means 99% things are set in stones, very unlikely anything will be changed for the loots, feats, or mechanics.

While people are discussing the pros and cons for loots and feats, Dev Team most likely is spending their time to do bugs fixing and quests polishing. After the release, they may have time to check this tread, and if they find issue with the loots or feats being too OP, they will fix them at later patches.

9 pages of feedback, not much from Dev Team; but we will see, hopefully some improvement or changes in later patches after release

 

[Shear-buckler]

I disgree, I think it sets a bad precedent that doesn't bode well for future development

Many games have these kind of mechanics and in every one of them it is seen as a good thing and in none of them it is seen as bad.

 

[AMess]

The game should not be intentionally dumbed down just because you think people are stupid.

I did not and would not insult folks intelligence. I explicitly said experience.

intelligence != experience

And hey, I personally rated Patience as an interesting feat (check my earliest post). I do see it as a trap and I have an alt who will benefit...I'm not your enemy here.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Umm you are aware that they changed cleave to scale with attack speed right?

Yes. You are aware that cooldowns don't scale with attack speed, right?

What about exponential scaling, where the end result is greater than the sum of the parts? Are we just going to ask about the basics?

Drifting Lotus or Legendary Rally taking 9% longer to kill a pack doesn't bother me. Being able to clear a pack in +1 skulls does.

Adrenaline + BM dealing 16% more damage is pretty great at the cost of 0.1 basic attacks, when my basic attacks are dealing 14% more (presuming 15-20/x4 +3/19-20, miss on a 1; 2.45/2.15) but 9% slower which is fairly neutral for those.

Put some numbers up. Attack speed is good, but so is damage, and so is crit profile. And MP, etc etc.

 

[rabidfox]

Many games have these kind of mechanics and in every one of them it is seen as a good thing and in none of them it is seen as bad.

Many games have damage parsers so people can actually tell if something is good or bad for them. The average player isn't going to run around doing the complex math to figure out if it's a gain or loss for them. It's a trap type situation when every other feat is a net gain (outside improved fort which is giant red flag trap that people still take and learn the hard way).

 

[in4theride75]

Why not? That seems like an arbitrary and bad limitation for design space. More feats with trade-offs that are worth it only if you lean into it would be amazing and very interesting. It works great in other games.

Because it is fundamentally bad game design. Plus you can accomplish the exact same thing without nerfing any builds.

Many games have these kind of mechanics and in every one of them it is seen as a good thing and in none of them it is seen as bad.

And most games suck too so that means nothing.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Many games have damage parsers so people can actually tell if something is good or bad for them. The average player isn't going to run around doing the complex math to figure out if it's a gain or loss for them. It's a trap type situation when every other feat is a net gain (outside improved fort which is giant red flag trap that people still take and learn the hard way).

Many games without damage parsers do these mechanics with great success.
The notion that "+1 crit multi -10% attack speed" is too complex for DDO is laughable.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Because it is fundamentally bad game design. Plus you can accomplish the exact same thing without nerfing any builds.

And most games suck too so that means nothing.

Since when is trade-offs "fundamentally bad game design"? Another laughably bad take.

 

[Spook]

Yes. You are aware that cooldowns don't scale with attack speed, right?

Which means with more attack speed you can fit more active attacks in between cooldowns - it not like melee are waiting for cooldowns 1 hand on the keyboard autoattacking exclaiming into the mic look at my big deeps

 

[voenixa121]

If changing feats was easier this would be much less of an issue. For example, no enhancement is ever a "trap" because it can be reset so easily. I'd remove the 3 day waiting for feat changes and make lesser hearts +0 available for like 10-20 heart seeds. Even if it's just for VIPs. Then we could all experiment much easier with feats like that. Respecing is much easier in most other games as well.

 

[Purr]

Please confirm whether Cannith Crafting will be updated to allow for crafting of Lv 34 items?

Devs: Here are the new items for you to consider
Players: rrrrooooaaarrrrr where is my monster manual fix?
Devs: Umm, how about this new thread for feats
Players: Can I has cannith crafts?

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Which means with more attack speed you can fit more active attacks in between cooldowns - it not like melee are waiting for cooldowns 1 hand on the keyboard autoattacking exclaiming into the mic look at my big deeps

You have enough active attacks to make every attack an active attack? Do you only play Monks?

Just use the top 91% of your active attacks then, enjoy the 10-20% damage boost to those, and drop the worst 9% of your active attacks (7% when haste boost is going). This is even a net gain for builds like yours, since your best actives get better and you get to skip the worst ones.

It's not rocket science, it's multitasking; and some of us can manage to push buttons while exclaiming into the mic about our big deeps. Or raid leading, or talking about our cats. YMMV.

-----

Show your math, or benchmarks, or whatever you have. It's not a -10% DPS hit for no gain, like many of y'all are trying to imply - unless you don't have enough Fort Bypass, at which point optimizing DPS is far beyond your current DDO level.

What's the result for your build? Inputs, outputs?

 

[Belenian]

None of the feats are exciting. Shouldnt that kinda be the goal of a new expansion? To make new and exciting things? Well. Im sad. I cant even make suggestions. "Make this number +x bigger plz" ... why bother.

 

[in4theride75]

Since when is trade-offs "fundamentally bad game design"? Another laughably bad take.

"Since when are COMPLETELY UNNECCESARY trade-offs THAT ACCOMPLISH THE SAME THING AS A SYSTEM WITHOUT THE TRADE OFFS fundamentally bad game design.
There, I fixed it for you. And the answer is always has been and always will be.