Update 69 Preview 3: New Feats

[Eme]

Why? It is clearly a tank type feat. I get it has similarities to Ki Shout, but a late level ability for a monk to intimidate alot of mobs (and bosses), seems dangerous for raids.

why not?
Ki shout was introduced as an alternate form of intimidate for monks if they wanted to make a build towards that direction for just that reason. It takes more investment for a monk to make use of this and not many monks take it anyway ( everyone gets intimidate skill for free ((but may not be able to put decent points into it) , Ki-shout costs additional points to get and just as much investment and still doesn't reach the same values as intimidate can, so full on tanks will still be better at it) , it's not like every monk will be taking it, only ones that choose to go that route and invest in it but now they are being left behind again, why should it be pigeon holed to just intimidate?

 

[Zvdegor]

Would it be possible to get a melee version of Trick Shot? It feels odd for ranged toons to be better at tumbling. I'd imagine nimble melee characters to be the masters of tumble - swashbucklers, rogues, monks, kensei fighters and other such who constantly dabble in danger - not some ranged schmuck. Melees in general feel left behind in this feat list compared to ranged.

For melees would be better to get extra bonus Tactical DC for 4-6 seconds after tumbling. +40 MP for a few sec wont be a gamechanger. However with the extra Tactical DC you can tumble close to the enemy and can have a more successful Knockdown/Trip/etc effect.
This would motivate me using tumble as a melee. For +40 MP for 4 sec I wont tumble once.

 

[Kimbere]

Why? It is clearly a tank type feat. I get it has similarities to Ki Shout, but a late level ability for a monk to intimidate alot of mobs (and bosses), seems dangerous for raids.

Late level? Ki Shout is literally a Tier1 ability in Shintao.

There's also more to the game than raids. In fact, most players probably spend >70% of their time in groups rather than raids.

Grouping is where it's nice to have a monk that can Ki Shout and help lock things down with stuns, jade, etc. It'd also be nice to take Shout in early epics to help control mobs while leveling.

The most annoying thing in the game as a melee player is when you're in a fast moving group and the ranged dps and casters constantly ping mobs and scatter them to the 4 winds before you get to them. Intimidate/shout is how melee DPS can prevent that when the group doesn't have a real tank.

 

[AMess]

The most annoying thing in the game as a melee player is when you're in a fast moving group and the ranged dps and casters constantly ping mobs and scatter them to the 4 winds before you get to them.

100% on this idea. If a ranged is kitting the boss i've stopped chasing...I'll either let the boss deal with the kiter, wait for kiter to deal with boss, and/or switch to a ranged weapon doing about 3% the DPS of my melee...but I stopped chasing

 

[songswrath]

Late level? Ki Shout is literally a Tier1 ability in Shintao.

There's also more to the game than raids. In fact, most players probably spend >70% of their time in groups rather than raids.

Grouping is where it's nice to have a monk that can Ki Shout and help lock things down with stuns, jade, etc. It'd also be nice to take Shout in early epics to help control mobs while leveling.

The most annoying thing in the game as a melee player is when you're in a fast moving group and the ranged dps and casters constantly ping mobs and scatter them to the 4 winds before you get to them. Intimidate/shout is how melee DPS can prevent that when the group doesn't have a real tank.

This one of the reasons I like sf pally. I will use wave to get aggro onto me before they start running. But most of tge time doesn't matter cuase a good ranged play is one shot them any how.

 

[songswrath]

Hey all! Thank you for the good feedback so far. Apologies again for not being able to get the revised Lamannia build out for preview this week - There's a lot of moving parts going on in finishing up the expansion, and as Torc said, we ran into some issues getting a good build in time to have a meaningful impact on this preview cycle. That said, we're making some adjustments based on feedback before Live, so I'd like to go over those and some other design thoughts here!

On Overall Power
The overall power of these feats has been brought up in a few places, so I'd like to concretely say that with the exception of the ML34 Titan's Blood, these new feats are ML21 Epic Feats and ML22 Destiny Feats. They are intended to balance against other feats at the same level, and provide additional options throughout the Epic and Legendary experience. They are definitely not meant to be spectacularly stronger than other feats you've gotten in the past - By leveling to 33 and 34, you're getting access to more feats, which is increasing your overall power and/or utility. If you're looking for balance comparisons, look at the ML21/22 feat options.

Patience
We do not intend to change Patience at this time. There's been a lot of debate as to its exact power and utility which we've read over in detail, but it has a place in many builds, and is not a mandatory take.

Eerie Aim
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "You gain +5% Dodge Bypass, +5% Deflection Bypass, and +10 to Attack. This change gives it some utility when not facing enemies with Dodge/Missile Deflection, and helps bring up Accuracy for those who want/need it. (If you are not a player who wants or needs it, that is fine - There are others who do, and other feat options.)

Paranoid
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "You take 10% less damage from Traps, and you automatically Spot almost all traps as you approach them."

Inspiring Bond
We are looking into whether we can get this to hold the rez if the Hire/Pet is under a resurrection-blocking effect until they're no longer under that effect. No promises yet, but we'll get that in if we can.

Defensive Tumble
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "When you Tumble, for the next 3 seconds you take 20% less damage from all sources (except Bane). In addition, your Tumble charges recharge 0.5 seconds faster, and the bonus to Reflex Saving Throws you receive while actively Tumbling is now also applied to Fortitude and Will Saving Throws while Tumbling."

Trick Shot
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "When you Tumble, you gain 40 Ranged Power for 4 seconds. In addition, your Tumble charges recharge 0.5 seconds faster." This change (and Defensive Tumble's version of the change, which stacks) lets you use these feats slightly more frequently, and also supports other Tumble-triggered abilities in the game.

Titan's Blood
We have no plans to change Titan's Blood at this time.

Guarded Actions
We have no plans to change Guarded Actions at this time.

Arcane Actions
Torc's original vision for this Feat was to have it primarily support hybrid builds, and to that end we've changed this feat to read "Whenever you use an Action Boost, you gain a +50 Competence Bonus to Universal Spell Power and +2 to Imbue Dice for 6 seconds." We've halved the Spell Power, doubled the duration, and changed the Spell Penetration (which wasn't really relevant to the intent) to Imbue Dice.

Channel Power
We have no plans to change Channel Power at this time.

Reverberating Shout
We're thinking of changing the name of this feat (open to suggestions), but otherwise have no plans to change this feat at this time.

Face Me
We have no plans to change Face Me at this time.

Literally doing the opposite of what was op and what wasn't
Ranged don't need a buff.

Hey all! Thank you for the good feedback so far. Apologies again for not being able to get the revised Lamannia build out for preview this week - There's a lot of moving parts going on in finishing up the expansion, and as Torc said, we ran into some issues getting a good build in time to have a meaningful impact on this preview cycle. That said, we're making some adjustments based on feedback before Live, so I'd like to go over those and some other design thoughts here!

On Overall Power
The overall power of these feats has been brought up in a few places, so I'd like to concretely say that with the exception of the ML34 Titan's Blood, these new feats are ML21 Epic Feats and ML22 Destiny Feats. They are intended to balance against other feats at the same level, and provide additional options throughout the Epic and Legendary experience. They are definitely not meant to be spectacularly stronger than other feats you've gotten in the past - By leveling to 33 and 34, you're getting access to more feats, which is increasing your overall power and/or utility. If you're looking for balance comparisons, look at the ML21/22 feat options.

Patience
We do not intend to change Patience at this time. There's been a lot of debate as to its exact power and utility which we've read over in detail, but it has a place in many builds, and is not a mandatory take.

Eerie Aim
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "You gain +5% Dodge Bypass, +5% Deflection Bypass, and +10 to Attack. This change gives it some utility when not facing enemies with Dodge/Missile Deflection, and helps bring up Accuracy for those who want/need it. (If you are not a player who wants or needs it, that is fine - There are others who do, and other feat options.)

Paranoid
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "You take 10% less damage from Traps, and you automatically Spot almost all traps as you approach them."

Inspiring Bond
We are looking into whether we can get this to hold the rez if the Hire/Pet is under a resurrection-blocking effect until they're no longer under that effect. No promises yet, but we'll get that in if we can.

Defensive Tumble
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "When you Tumble, for the next 3 seconds you take 20% less damage from all sources (except Bane). In addition, your Tumble charges recharge 0.5 seconds faster, and the bonus to Reflex Saving Throws you receive while actively Tumbling is now also applied to Fortitude and Will Saving Throws while Tumbling."

Trick Shot
We are adding onto this feat, which now reads "When you Tumble, you gain 40 Ranged Power for 4 seconds. In addition, your Tumble charges recharge 0.5 seconds faster." This change (and Defensive Tumble's version of the change, which stacks) lets you use these feats slightly more frequently, and also supports other Tumble-triggered abilities in the game.

Titan's Blood
We have no plans to change Titan's Blood at this time.

Guarded Actions
We have no plans to change Guarded Actions at this time.

Arcane Actions
Torc's original vision for this Feat was to have it primarily support hybrid builds, and to that end we've changed this feat to read "Whenever you use an Action Boost, you gain a +50 Competence Bonus to Universal Spell Power and +2 to Imbue Dice for 6 seconds." We've halved the Spell Power, doubled the duration, and changed the Spell Penetration (which wasn't really relevant to the intent) to Imbue Dice.

Channel Power
We have no plans to change Channel Power at this time.

Reverberating Shout
We're thinking of changing the name of this feat (open to suggestions), but otherwise have no plans to change this feat at this time.

Face Me
We have no plans to change Face Me at this time.

Literally buffed things already op. And nerfed the underwhelming feats. Here comes the wave of ranged players cuase it's about to be more op than shifters. But you all yet to figure out why they busted. So I will give a hint on a few things. not just their uncapped animation. Or the fact they do more base damage than a monk with same damage die.

 

[Contessor]

why not?
Ki shout was introduced as an alternate form of intimidate for monks if they wanted to make a build towards that direction for just that reason. It takes more investment for a monk to make use of this and not many monks take it anyway ( everyone gets intimidate skill for free ((but may not be able to put decent points into it) , Ki-shout costs additional points to get and just as much investment and still doesn't reach the same values as intimidate can, so full on tanks will still be better at it) , it's not like every monk will be taking it, only ones that choose to go that route and invest in it but now they are being left behind again, why should it be pigeon holed to just intimidate?

Intim is already buggy though. Not sure I would like to see something on top of that.

 

[Synalon]

I like the idea of Channel Power and Arcane Actions, they seem fun. But their durations would have to be longer for them to be usable, especially Channel Power.

 

[BotteDaOrbi]

• Patience
  • Your attack speed is reduced by 10%, but you gain +1 Critical Multiplier with all weapons.

Patience absolutely MUST be melee weapons only, otherwise ranged is going to do more dps than any form of melee or any form of caster. Please devs, count animations per minute on ranged styles with and without this feat to understand the interaction for projectile weapons, as their alacrity isn’t affected in the same clear-cut way as it is for melee, and this will be giving them a free +1 multiplier with a nearly imperceptible attack rate drop.

 

[Tilomere]

The power of the feats is immaterial if they are powerful enough to be used, because the nerfs that will arrive with them will keep the game at a balance level SSG wants. Think more on the role space of the feats. For example, add to the level 21 regular feats all metamagics, as they are gated by the ability to use magic, and all classes get access to magical abilities via EDs at 20. This opens up more gameplay role space, as ED choice won't be as clear cut for characters once they all have metamagic access.

Now think on how +1 multiplier evens out a bit +1/+1 7/3 (14 crit factor) builds with currently more powerful +0/+2 (6/4 (18 crit factor) builds.
The difference starts 4/33 lower base total factor damage., or 13% difference in dps. The 7/3 becomes 7/4 (21 crit factor), while the 6/4 becomes 6/5 (24 crit factor), reducing their difference to 3/40 or 7.5% difference. This narrows the build gap. Then just hit both builds with a 30% nerf by making caster and melee penalties the higher caster one. End is better balance between builds, and also better balance between martial and casters, and better balance against mobs.

3 second feats with requirements to activate don't open up any new role space that is interesting (stand still in R10 trololo?), and they also aren't in line with stronger passive bonuses like arcane warrior or X spell power or even a permanent spell focus feat or raw stat. Even if the bonuses were increased, it isn't a role space anyone wants to fill, like an arcane that heals (alchemist).

 

[dur]

Hey, everyone! In this Preview, we've got several new feats planned for release with Update 69 to go along with the level cap increase. With the exception of one though, these can also be taken anywhere in Epics you have a feat slot they can be taken in! Let's take a look, and please leave any feedback below!

Edit: We're planning some feedback adjustments based on this thread, read more here:
https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/update-69-preview-3-new-feats.13117/page-16#post-155901

New Epic Feats
These are all Minimum Level 21, and can be taken with normal feat slots that you get at levels 21, 24, 27, 30, and 33.

• Patience
  • Your attack speed is reduced by 10%, but you gain +1 Critical Multiplier with all weapons.
• Eerie Aim
  • You gain +5% Dodge Bypass and +5% Deflection Bypass.
• Paranoid
  • You automatically Spot almost all traps as you approach them.
  • (Note: This is Spot, not Search.)
• Inspiring Bond
  • When your Hirelings or Pets die, after 2.5 seconds they are automatically resurrected and heal to full health. This can occur only once for each creature every 3 minutes. In addition, your Hirelings, Pets, and Summons gain +25 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.
• Defensive Tumble
  • When you Tumble, for the next 3 seconds you take 20% less damage from all sources (except Bane). In addition, the bonus to Reflex Saving Throws you receive while actively Tumbling is now also applied to Fortitude and Will saving throws while Tumbling.
• Trick Shot
  • When you Tumble, you gain +40 Ranged Power for 4 seconds.

New Epic Destiny Feats
These are all Minimum Level 21 except for Titan's Blood, which is ML34. These can be taken with Destiny Feat Slots, which you get at 22, 25, 28, 31, and 34.

• Titan's Blood
  • Minimum Level 34. You gain a +10% Legendary Bonus to Maximum Hit Points.
• Guarded Actions
  • Whenever you use an Action Boost, you take 20% less damage for 6 seconds.
• Arcane Actions
  • Whenever you use an Action Boost, you gain a +100 Competence Bonus to Universal Spell Power and +2 to Spell Penetration for 3 seconds.
• Channel Power
  • After blocking with an Orb or Staff for at least 3 seconds, you gain a +100 Competence Bonus to Unversal Spell Power and +4 to all Spell DCs for 3 seconds.
• Reverberating Shout
  • Activate to shout at all nearby creatures, Intimidating them unless they make a Will Saving Throw (DC equal to your Intimidate skill). This works on all creature types, including those normally immune to Intimidate.
• Face Me
  • Whenever you use an Action Boost, your threat generation is increased by 200% for 6 seconds.

Looks good on paper!

 

[jotmon]

Looks good on paper!

Toilet paper.

 

[dur]

Toilet paper.

Trying to be positive since I've been put on notice/threatened with a(nother) perma-ban.

 

[Positive thinking]

Trying to be positive since I've been put on notice/threatened with a(nother) perma-ban.

Careful they dont care about what were their long term loyal clients if you dont follow their narrative they will ban you. Of course like many others that have possibly been forum banned the only logical response to a ban is locking up your cash contribution.

 

[seph1roth5]

I love DDO's combat, but tumble is so not in a good place to be utilized this way. Not with the janky way monsters move, lag, and alll sorts of other crap.

DDO's combat is very...real-time I guess? Compared to other MMOs I've played. But fluid it is NOT. In Genshin Impact you have an invincible dash you can use with pinpoint precision, and use it to avoid big attacks or maneuver to the side/behind enemies. It also has a stamina bar so you can use it a good amount of times before you run out.

Tumble, aside from thief acrobat, was never meant to be woven in the middle of combat. If devs want to try and make that a thing we need longer duration buffs to come from it. Put the buffs on a CD if you have to but everything about tumbling is just far too short. From the cooldowns to the buffs.

 

[Kyrr]

I love DDO's combat, but tumble is so not in a good place to be utilized this way. Not with the janky way monsters move, lag, and alll sorts of other crap.

DDO's combat is very...real-time I guess? Compared to other MMOs I've played. But fluid it is NOT. In Genshin Impact you have an invincible dash you can use with pinpoint precision, and use it to avoid big attacks or maneuver to the side/behind enemies. It also has a stamina bar so you can use it a good amount of times before you run out.

Tumble, aside from thief acrobat, was never meant to be woven in the middle of combat. If devs want to try and make that a thing we need longer duration buffs to come from it. Put the buffs on a CD if you have to but everything about tumbling is just far too short. From the cooldowns to the buffs.

What's the point of bringing a gacha game into an MMORPG discussion?

 

[Col Kurtz]

DDO's combat is very...real-time I guess? Compared to other MMOs I've played. But fluid it is NOT.

^this is why players prefer static groups or Solo

mobs move way more fluidic when not scattered by high aggro hires and noobs that can't kill them fast

*disclaimer>Newbs are Cool. Me likes to help them

Noobs are different...they are the players that refuse to listen + have a big attitude; they are totally different than Newbs!

 

[dur]

I love DDO's combat, but tumble is so not in a good place to be utilized this way. Not with the janky way monsters move, lag, and alll sorts of other crap.

DDO's combat is very...real-time I guess? Compared to other MMOs I've played. But fluid it is NOT. In Genshin Impact you have an invincible dash you can use with pinpoint precision, and use it to avoid big attacks or maneuver to the side/behind enemies. It also has a stamina bar so you can use it a good amount of times before you run out.

Tumble, aside from thief acrobat, was never meant to be woven in the middle of combat. If devs want to try and make that a thing we need longer duration buffs to come from it. Put the buffs on a CD if you have to but everything about tumbling is just far too short. From the cooldowns to the buffs.

Tumble used to be good, but...
!000% agree with monster mechanics.
Like @Col Kurtz it's why I solo or run with those who prefer to play the quest instead of blowing through it.

 

[paddymaxson]

I love DDO's combat, but tumble is so not in a good place to be utilized this way. Not with the janky way monsters move, lag, and alll sorts of other crap.

DDO's combat is very...real-time I guess? Compared to other MMOs I've played. But fluid it is NOT. In Genshin Impact you have an invincible dash you can use with pinpoint precision, and use it to avoid big attacks or maneuver to the side/behind enemies. It also has a stamina bar so you can use it a good amount of times before you run out.

Tumble, aside from thief acrobat, was never meant to be woven in the middle of combat. If devs want to try and make that a thing we need longer duration buffs to come from it. Put the buffs on a CD if you have to but everything about tumbling is just far too short. From the cooldowns to the buffs.

DDO is one of the earliest "second gen" MMOs, and I swear when it came out you could use tumble to evade incoming damage, sadly the game performance doesn't really allow it to keep up with the more polished second gen MMOs so I don't feel like you can trust DDO to perform well enough to allow you to react to something incoming by tumbling. Even 3 seconds is ungenerous given how often DDO will have more than 3 consecutive seconds of lag

 

[GrizzlyOso]

just my 2 cents, and not saying the 3 second boosts are that enticing , but I tumble out of stuff as it is now all the time. Especially traps you’re setting off but I’ll often nail it mid Zerg as well.