Update 72: The Unbalanced Monk

[DDO Noob]

41 shintao 23 henshin 16 ns should have the most melee power, with haste boost, and extra boosts from ns.

Kinda sad extra boosts in ninja cost 2ap per rank, while dlord ravager just got them for 1ap.

Will this build only be good for end game or will it be tolerable for leveling as well?

 

[Tyran Thraxus]

As the creator of the old Monk guide, it's clear that I loved Monks so much that I wanted to help those to play it better.
While cumbersome at first, Finishing Moves allowed a lot of diverse attacks, buffs and debuffs.

With Update 72, all Finishers are gone. This wasn't initially a serious concern for me, as I've been playing the Sacred Fist, a Monk-like Paladin with no Monk stances or ki regeneration, and it works very well. Similarly, starthrowers ("shuricannons") also couldn't use finishers.

But the 72 changes have effectively killed the melee Ninja Spy, made confusing additions to Shintao that made even more so of a mere pugilist with far fewer party support options. Only the Mystic tree gained a few benefits but at the expense of the Shintao's abilities.

I'm playing mostly Sacred Fists now, some starthrowers and Tabaxi Mystics. Many of the finishers could've been changed to philosophy and level restricted Feats. But this didn't happen, and I'm left looking at other classes and rethinking my subscription. Here's my review.

I was a huge fan of your site, and your Zen Archer/Zen Bowmaster builds. Is it so difficult for SSG to add Ki generation for bows? Arrgh.

Although, I must say, the extra challenge from playing pure Bow Monk is still great...Love the challenge.

 

[Ying]

So what do you think would be a good viable build for 20 monk now

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/u66-monk-20.10822/ (from U66) remains a solid foundation. If you're optimizing for MD content, there's an argument to use Precision over Power Attack because mob AC is ridiculously high.

Falconry still provides 3 more DC for Quivering Palm. It's a shame Ninja Spy didn't get Assassinate bonuses outside of T5.

You can shfit VKF to Ninja Spy.

With 3% dstrike in Shintao and 8 more ED points allowing you to nab 6% dstrike from T4 Fury of the Wild. You can now cap dstrike while running Martial Ancient Tactics full time for another +3 DC to QP and +6 DC to Stunning Fist/Jade/Smite/Dismissing/Hand.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

I'm not building for Quivering Palm at this point. It's too much of an investment to get there. Just use it on low save mobs. Most mobs you want to use it on are immune anyway. With quick strikes you don't have to cap doublestrike either but it is still good to build close to it for those random misses and/or raid boss beatdowns. My standing is 93% I think right now.
There's a ton of flexibility in monk, which is really really cool. There are a lot of effective builds and because the capstone is so good, I think the best monk builds will still effectively be 20 monk.

 

[saekee]

Will this build only be good for end game or will it be tolerable for leveling as well?

You can use substitutions for TWF outside wraps easily enough. The Tiefling assassin blades at level 4 are great monk weapons. Adamantine knuckles have a boosted crit profile so you can use them from 13+ or whatever and through epics. At cap you can focus on the best setup and I nod always to Ying and others who are pushing the best builds.

Another option is to do kukris and just swap IC slashing out later at cap; kukris are a great multi-life leveler thanks to VfK.

Yeah there is a sick amount of melee power for wraps users. 30 for a pure monk just putting them on; then as Alternative said above, you get a big chunk from Shintao (another 30) and 3 from a few cores of Henshin. Nuts.

The best thing about Teachersyn’s guide was his love and enthusiasm; it was a deep dive into the lore of the monk and was fun to read. I am sorry to see his despair. My enthusiasm for monks got reignited by ki bolts as I have said above and I might switch to a wraps ki bolter.

 

[Lagin3]

When it comes to Monks, I've forgotten more than you'll ever know.

That, right there is quote worthy

Your guide has helped many players, shame to see it go by the wayside.

 

[jacko]

Is an unbalanced monk a drunken monk, so a dronk or a drunk?

I reckon dronk, as barbs are already drunks.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

Is an unbalanced monk a drunken monk, so a dronk or a drunk?

I reckon dronk, as barbs are already drunks.

The game would never do it, but the drunken brawler archetype and animations would be hilarious and fitting of many players in DDO.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

NS T5/capstone melee hasn't ever really been a thing outside of flavor or meme builds. Handwraps have always eclipsed every other weapon for melee monks. And for that Shintao T5+capstone was and remains the most optimal damage.

Deep NS investment is only relevant for throwers. And the U72 changes to NS are a step down from prior versions utilizing Horizon Walker. By the numbers: Not being T5 HW you lose 34 RP, and you only gain 15 back (10 of which doesn't work). You also lose 10 dshot from HW. H/T to @Lominal for the analysis.

Henshin has been terrible since it was introduced. Part of that was because quarterstaves absolutely sucked (and still do) compared to other weapon options. Removing the quarterstave restrictions didn't really improve the tree. It's cute that it has a WIS trance now.

Sacred Fist doesn't have access to a trance, which severely hampers it's damage and tactical prowess.

The builder and finisher system was unique, quirky, and had the highest skill ceiling in the game. It was cool while it lasted.

Yeah, Mystic had a hard start, but it's grew up well enough for me as a harassing DPS build, neither tank nor specialty.
I know many really get into the min-maxing of things. My approach with the guide was to state the basics matter-of-factly. It seems I used Ninja Spy melees more so than others, and that's either weird or I was far more competent with them than I was able to relate to others.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

I was a huge fan of your site, and your Zen Archer/Zen Bowmaster builds. Is it so difficult for SSG to add Ki generation for bows? Arrgh.

Although, I must say, the extra challenge from playing pure Bow Monk is still great...Love the challenge.

I yearn for getting a Zen Archer going again. It wasn't a fast DPS, but it could literally stand in a rain of arrows and nail everything one by one. Closest thing to "Legolas" in DDO and I miss it so.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

That, right there is quote worthy

Your guide has helped many players, shame to see it go by the wayside.

If something substantial changes with this Update 72 disaster, I may reconsider, although naturally I can happily nix all the tutorials and get to tactics per build in certain quests.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

the big strong points of henshin are melee power in every core (which got nerfed a bit years back) and +1 stacking crit multi inside cauldron, which now can have a 100% uptime. Cauldron also lets you stack arcane warrior's melee power and stacks it very fast as far as options go.
Henshin is genuinely underrated.

There is something incredible about the Mystic that, with just a few bits of gear, allow you to set EVERYTHING ON FIRE. I'd prefer a Shintao if charging into another plane, especially Shavarath. But where there are humans and non-outsiders, a Tabaxi Trailblazer puts the BLAZER in their name and things get tripped, smolder and turn to ash very very quickly. Ki wizards, man.

 

[DDO Noob]

Monk has plenty of CC with handwraps: Stunning Fist, Tomb of Jade, Kukan-Do, Nauseate, Dismissing Strike, Quivering Palm and with Drifting Lotus, EiN in EDs. Monk CC is so good it was fundamental to our R10 FoM completion.

Dismissing optimal damage is why players pigeonhole themselves with self-limiting beliefs of "I can't do reaper" or "I can't do raids".

I'm wondering then if I can get the best of all worlds because I'm greedy. I want CC with handwraps as well as optimal damage as well as AOE melee attacks. What if I played a Shadar-Kai for the free Displacement and 2 AOE chain attacks with handwraps? I'd be willing to swallow the cost of a +1 Lesser Heart of Wood to go 20 Monk.

I have 14 racial points along with 2 universal points to spend. It would cost me 17 racial points for both Chain Attacks for a real cost of 3. I could spend 11 points in VKF for Deflect Arrows and 5% Double Strike for effective cost of 9. That leaves me with 68 points left. 41 points for Shintao. 13 points into NiS for Shadow Veil and Flashbang. Lastly, that leaves me 14 points in HeM to grab the 3 cores and Clear Your Mind for Wis trance.

Would this build be viable? Am I missing anything?

I'd also like to thank TeacherSyncletica for his excellent Monk Guide. I was one of many players who found it a useful resource/guide in the past.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

I'm wondering then if I can get the best of all worlds because I'm greedy. I want CC with handwraps as well as optimal damage as well as AOE melee attacks. What if I played a Shadar-Kai for the free Displacement and 2 AOE chain attacks with handwraps? I'd be willing to swallow the cost of a +1 Lesser Heart of Wood to go 20 Monk.

I have 14 racial points along with 2 universal points to spend. It would cost me 17 racial points for both Chain Attacks for a real cost of 3. I could spend 11 points in VKF for Deflect Arrows and 5% Double Strike for effective cost of 9. That leaves me with 68 points left. 41 points for Shintao. 13 points into NiS for Shadow Veil and Flashbang. Lastly, that leaves me 14 points in HeM to grab the 3 cores and Clear Your Mind for Wis trance.

Would this build be viable? Am I missing anything?

I'd also like to thank TeacherSyncletica for his excellent Monk Guide. I was one of many players who found it a useful resource/guide in the past.

Handwraps
Quick Cutter
Whirlwind attack
Displacement comes as a spell for dragon disciple
Aasimar is better than shadar-kai generally as the melee power, hands, and healing amp are superior, plus you net +4 wisdom.

 

[Holmgang]

Does practiced accuracy affect handwraps?

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

If we look beyond just the most optimal damage, which monk weapon is now best for CC? There seem to be quite a few CC options in all 3 trees now and I think it would be interesting to try to build towards that with cherry picking from all the trees.

Of late, I found that Ninja Spy + Feydark Mystic's Color Spray was absolutely brutal in stopping even Reapers in their tracks with the right DCs.
The reason for Feydark was that (1) they gained Force shortswords at Level 1 (Ninjas love 'em, all but golems hate 'em) and (2) the key DPS of Ninjas was Sneak Attack + Helpless damage for a VERY quick slice and chop of half of a paralyzed mob before they unfreeze and you repeat the death-dealing.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

Does practiced accuracy affect handwraps?

Yes. Falconry enhancements work with both melee and ranged unless otherwise stated, or you pick the wrong attack type--easy to fix with a tree reset.

 

[DDO Noob]

Of late, I found that Ninja Spy + Feydark Mystic's Color Spray was absolutely brutal in stopping even Reapers in their tracks with the right DCs.
The reason for Feydark was that (1) they gained Force shortswords at Level 1 (Ninjas love 'em, all but golems hate 'em) and (2) the key DPS of Ninjas was Sneak Attack + Helpless damage for a VERY quick slice and chop of half of a paralyzed mob before they unfreeze and you repeat the death-dealing.

That's an intriguing idea to use Colour Spray plus helpless damage. Feydark will also give you MM protection with Shield. But I don't understand why you would use Force shortswords when handwraps are better DPS?

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

That's an intriguing idea to use Colour Spray plus helpless damage. Feydark will also give you MM protection with Shield. But I don't understand why you would use Force shortswords when handwraps are better DPS?

You might be considering OVERALL DPS.
A Ninja isn't a frontline fighter. They're an opportunist.
When you make something Helpless (blinded, paralyzed or otherwise) you're effectively Sneak Attacking with every hit. Combined with No Mercy (up to 15% more damage), Seeker to increase damage per critical hit, and your weapon effects, you remove enemies VERY quickly from the board within the short period of Helplessness.
Before U72, Ninja paralysis would leave something that way for up to 1 minute unless they save out of it.
Force shortswords are a blessing. They cut through almost everything and everyone, are available at Level 1 (great if you are starting new on a server) have built-in Ghost Touch, and they also gain increased power and effects, such as Phantasmal Killer chance on-hit (and it procs a LOT). Against living enemies through early Epic, they are beastly weapons to supplement specialty weapons that do better total damage against certain enemies (Syranian for constructs, Barovian weapons for undead, etc.).
Tactics is my playstyle. While better weapons are good, using better tactics to diminish my enemy's capacity to fight left my Ninjas with a massive effective burst DPS. Ninjas with Color Spray turned into very effective Reaper destroyers for me, though I never pushed past R3 with that.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

paralyzed

Paralysis don't provide helpless status last... 15 year? More?