Update 75 Preview 3 - Dark Gift Shrine

[Wini]

...

DDO’s strength has always been its depth and flexibility – not artificial constraints disguised as content.

I agree with every word in your post. This is the reason I'm not touching this thing even with a 10-feet pole.

What I mean is, okay, they have the data, they know the % of players using patience and these trap-feats (to me). So, about folks using a feat that gives them -15% DPS, if they are feeling good, it isn't my business if they feel happy or their math or feelings are showing that their performance is better in X or Y build.

I will be in the % of folks no using this part of the system, IDK what's the use of this, but I will be feeding that segment of the data.

 

[Elfishski]

I really like the idea of meaningful tradeoffs that matter. I like the flavor of these and the concept.

Form of Pain up to +35 prr/mrr is a lot, for -10% move speed if I read that correctly, even though I hate being slowed, that'd very often be tempting and also make things less enjoyable when I did.

Touch of death is insanely good if you're undead and don't care about ever being healed with positive anyway.

With the upgrade Minion of the Eldritch presumably a net bonus for any spellcaster if they can be bothered using the clicky, and everyone who doesn't take something else should take it too if they can be bothered because free passive +5 spellpower and you don't even have to use the clicky.

The others are interesting and I like that they exist but I would probably avoid them on my main- for people doing R10s most of these are probably non-starters as they'll get you killed whenever a "very small chance" goes off. The bad effects look like they'd be not fun, and there are too many unknowns in how they function/if they function and I don't want the hassle of testing. I might take them on an alt that's just doing things for flavor.

I expect a handful of people will figure out which negatives are worth it (because the negative is bugged for instance) and incorporate some of these in creative ways.

 

[Zvdegor]

I really like the idea of meaningful tradeoffs that matter. I like the flavor of these and the concept.

Form of Pain up to +35 prr/mrr is a lot, for -10% move speed if I read that correctly, even though I hate being slowed, that'd very often be tempting and also make things less enjoyable when I did.

Touch of death is insanely good if you're undead and don't care about ever being healed with positive anyway.

With the upgrade Minion of the Eldritch presumably a net bonus for any spellcaster if they can be bothered using the clicky, and everyone who doesn't take something else should take it too if they can be bothered because free passive +5 spellpower and you don't even have to use the clicky.

The others are interesting and I like that they exist but I would probably avoid them on my main- for people doing R10s most of these are probably non-starters as they'll get you killed whenever a "very small chance" goes off. The bad effects look like they'd be not fun, and there are too many unknowns in how they function/if they function and I don't want the hassle of testing. I might take them on an alt that's just doing things for flavor.

I expect a handful of people will figure out which negatives are worth it (because the negative is bugged for instance) and incorporate some of these in creative ways.

problem is the debuffs arent just against single player mode but aginst party play. Ok, you can have +35 prr/mrr but you wont be able to keep up with the grp and the prr/mrr buff means nothing if you cant participate in fights.

If you cannot be healed via positive healing, it is the same like the artificer feat Improved Fortification. It is a trap, doesnt support party play and noone will take it just because of this. Not to mention the restrictions of pos healing was changed many updates ago because players were complaining during party play undead build were behind, etc. This is just a shot in your own leg.

As I wrote above new mechanics/systems shouldnt cause frustraition or should be against cooperative playing.

 

[Dandonk]

The deathblock seems like a very strange choice.

Can we at least get it to be underwater actiuon RR warforged, like in the old days?

 

[Anurakh]

I dont like the new bargain buff/debuff system. For me it feels like the purpose of the new feats (like patience, etc), new Dark Gift system which debuffs players for a useless (most of the cases) buff just a hidden "slow down players and reduce their dps numbers" to reduce server lag.
If SSG will develop the game in this direction I dont know what to think or say. I cant state an opinion in others name but I am sure there are many similar opinion on this topic and not I am the only one with this suspicion.
I am gonna just ignore these Gifts completely until this new system will add real value to my builds.

I agree.

I wouldn't worry if it was an isolated case, but I'm seeing a trend, and that worries me because I hate these types of mechanics, and if this trend continues, I'll drop DDO.

First Wild Mage, then Patience, then this. All with penalties greater than the benefit they provide. And not to mention that the sun/moon system is a downgrade compared to previous sets (a brutal split in stats and a smaller number of slots, which means the number of bonus sets we have is much smaller). And the rare loot. And the absence of Randall Lyric.

It's a tremendously worrying trend. I don't like it. And it's another reason why I still don't know if I'll buy this expansion.

And by the way, anti-grouping options like nerfing positive healing are a terrible design. They'd be better off removing the flags from the game and encouraging grouping instead of penalizing it.

 

[ChickenMobile]

problem is the debuffs arent just against single player mode but aginst party play. Ok, you can have +35 prr/mrr but you wont be able to keep up with the grp and the prr/mrr buff means nothing if you cant participate in fights.

This is a fantastic one for characters that get hit a lot, that don't often move... like tanks.
If you are doing high difficulty and run in front of the tank before they get aggo that's on you! :LOL:

Edit: also the buff only applies if you get hit. If you are always behind the group and can't participate in fights - your movement speed won't be reduced lol.

If you cannot be healed via positive healing, it is the same like the artificer feat Improved Fortification.

This one has its uses too. It is actually a lot easier to get negative healing amp over every other healing amp now because of this feat.
Pub groups with traditional roles will be terrible - and your character will probably die. Groups with a specific undead healer will be very strong! Solo: it will be fantastic as long as you have the spells to self heal!

Good news for all of the dark gifts is they are optional.

 

[Zvdegor]

This is a fantastic one for characters that get hit a lot, that don't often move... like tanks.
If you are doing high difficulty and run in front of the tank before they get aggo that's on you! :LOL:

Edit: also the buff only applies if you get hit. If you are always behind the group and can't participate in fights - your movement speed won't be reduced lol.


This one has its uses too. It is actually a lot easier to get negative healing amp over every other healing amp now because of this feat.
Pub groups with traditional roles will be terrible - and your character will probably die. Groups with a specific undead healer will be very strong! Solo: it will be fantastic as long as you have the spells to self heal!

Good news for all of the dark gifts is they are optional.

I am not saying you cant use gifts but it needs very specific builds. This is a new expansion pack and the new system should offer something for everyone in general and not only for certain builds and situations.

And yes sure that gift is amazing for a tank. Tank got aggro and all the hits so if I have the same gift it doesnt make sense to have it because it never procs on me. If mobs are CC-d again, it will never proc. It is good if you solo a lot for sure, but DDO is based on connection and grouping so the new systems/mechanic should support that much more. And yes it is optional. But why bother at all when I'll be slowed/exhausted/blinded/etc with no save? I built my toon to survive and to have fun. These kind of unavoidable disadvantages arent fun or challenging. It is anti fun and frustrating.

 

[Anurakh]

Good news for all of the dark gifts is they are optional.

This is optional, the rare loot is optional... too many things that if I'm not going to use (or won't be able to use because I don't get them, like with rare loot), make me wonder, why buy this X-Pack?

There are other games in my Steam queue that won't frustrate me.

 

[Wini]

... make me wonder, why buy this X-Pack?

• Bloated loot tables
• Yet more rare loot
• Phoned in loot effects
• No quest teleporters
• Dark shrine being so bad design
• Another copycat crafting system
• No Randall Lyric
• No effort to solve generalist or alt problems
• No updates to old emblematic classes like rogue or wiz
• Server performance

Choose a couple at random. Very enticing, indeed.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Can we have instead of 15% dodge a +3-5 MDB??? Or both? Capped toons got already maxed out their dodge capacity.

It's uncapped though! See below:

Yes it should be uncapped

This is gonna make Dodge tanks a lot more viable (currently require a lot of weird stuff like filigree).

I'm enjoying this stuff, a lot of it is niche and the drawbacks can hurt, but in their niche some of this stuff is really good.

 

[Edrein]

It's uncapped though! See below:

This is gonna make Dodge tanks a lot more viable (currently require a lot of weird stuff like filigree).

I'm enjoying this stuff, a lot of it is niche and the drawbacks can hurt, but in their niche some of this stuff is really good.

Conceptually I agree with you. But as it stands it's still a weird/unreliable proc chance. And kind of undesirable for folks wanting to actually capitalize on the increased melee range for actually dealing damage.

I hate using the phrase noob trap, but really half the design of these feel like noob traps.

 

[Ratatoskr_Mikew]

yeah, overall death block is such a weird choice, especially considering the book version of Touch of Death includes
Inescapable Death. When you hit a target with an attack roll and deal necrotic damage, you ignore the target's resistance to that damage.

Every negative focused caster build, (DA, Abyss Pact, Pale Master) is in dire need of a way to deal with negative immunity and this would perhaps be the perfect thematic place to get it, along with it also having the downside of being borderline unhealable by positive energy.
Making immunity bypass accessible in such a manner would be a massive relief for a long struggling category of casters.

Exactly!!

 

[Drachmor]

Yes it should be uncapped

Just came here to say this, glad it was addressed lol

 

[VinoeWhines]

Dark Gifts are like a Brand new Credit Card: No Annual Fees, 0% Annual Interest, No Late Fees for 6 Months and Pay Later introductory Offer.
Void where Prohibited, not valid for High End Content. Success stories are not common and only a Few users can possibly benefit. Actual Results may vary based on circumstances and Networking probabilities.

 

[Chaotix]

Web gift proc is pathetic, just sayin, but then again not surprised.

 

[waxinglyrical]

Looks pretty cool and thematic. Hopefully the dark gift feats get fixed. Like @rabidfox said, they're a mess.

It should have had a typo and be renamed the 'Dark Grift'