Vecna expac - the good, the bad and the really ugly

mikarddo

Well-known member
Having played Vecna a bit I am not overly impressed.

a) The quests themselves are decent enough but often you get the same halls with the same rooms reused over and over which is boring. Ravenloft was great - Vecna is ok but not great.

b) The optional chests drop nothing of actual value so running the optionals is mostly if not fully pointless. Add some good stuff to the chests - augments, filigrees and 1000 sentient xp stones would be a start.

c) Making the quests level 18 was a bad idea. My friend and I just ran them in heroics but we agree we wont do so again in the next long time. The quests simply do not offer anywhere the xp/min we can get from level 16 quests so xp wise the worth is nowhere near what it should be. Further, a level 18 weapon that does not accept sentience is certainly going to be surpassed by a level 20 weapon with a sentient gem. And thus the weapons have no real use.

d) The gear simply isnt good enough. In particular the fact that weapons do not apply for the set bonus makes Vecna gear weaker than comparable stat Isle of Dread gear.

Overall I see myself running Vecna much less than Ravenloft, Sharn, Fey and Isle of Dread for the reasons mentioned.
 

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
So far I see this as new quests and content and less about adding more powerful items to the game. This is not really a bad thing as that would just bump the power creep meter up another notch. After running the level 16 quest for the hundredth time it is nice to have something different. Yes, the XP per min may not be optimal so if you are racing through a life as fast as possible you should just stick to the quests you can run blindfolded. The current XP is very low for the level and is to be addressed in a future update. If however you want a change of scenery then this will provide that.

There are some quest I run because I happen to like the story and/or they are really fun with a build I am running. May not run them every life but it is nice to circle back to them from time to time. Choice is not a bad thing and I bought the base package as it seemed worth it to me.
 

Ying

Well-respected member
b) The optional chests drop nothing of actual value so running the optionals is mostly if not fully pointless. Add some good stuff to the chests - augments, filigrees and 1000 sentient xp stones would be a start.
Optionals are fine when you need XP to level. While leveling XP isn't needed for the Legendary version right now, it will be once the level cap it raised and we're running this content for both RXP and level XP simultaneously.
 

Fhrek

Ogres are like onions
Making the quests level 18 was a bad idea.

Level 17 - 20 heroic quests are in a very bad spot, no exp value, no gear value, no appeal to be run consistent after hit Epics.

SSG needs to address those, lowering some of them to quests ranges where there is lack of content. Would be healthy put some of them on Lv. 10-12 or make anything that hit Lv. 20 Epic for experience purpose.

Lore, story and flower sniffing will hold one or two playthrough interest... after that, those quests are forgotten.
 

Drunken.dx

Well-known member
Level 17 - 20 heroic quests are in a very bad spot, no exp value, no gear value, no appeal to be run consistent after hit Epics.
Agreed.
Maybe if you want quick favor cleanup but I personally just run heroic sharn/cogs after hitting 16 and just pop saga xp to push myself to 20 after.

ES quests are more fun un epics, and ebberon quests in that range are...
Not fun.
More like tedious.
 

Titus Ovid

Mover and Shaker
Well, new content gets measured by existent content.

The game is build around content (story, design, atmosphere), xp and items. The order of priority is different for everyone. If the points are subar some players might decide not to run it. For an expansion that is particular sad because there is extra money involved. So feedback is important for players and developers alike.

Concerning items: They are a good and an important measure because they deal in numbers instead of emotions and/or taste (much harder to analyse) . New items don't need to add to the power creep but they sure should be equal to comparable items in that level range.

Cheers,
Titus.
 

HoopleHead

Well-known member
Level 17 - 20 heroic quests are in a very bad spot, no exp value, no gear value, no appeal to be run consistent after hit Epics.

SSG needs to address those, lowering some of them to quests ranges where there is lack of content. Would be healthy put some of them on Lv. 10-12 or make anything that hit Lv. 20 Epic for experience purpose.

Lore, story and flower sniffing will hold one or two playthrough interest... after that, those quests are forgotten.

Green-Steel & heroic Alchemical still whoop butt until you hit mid-epics
 
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mikarddo

Well-known member
Optionals are fine when you need XP to level. While leveling XP isn't needed for the Legendary version right now, it will be once the level cap it raised and we're running this content for both RXP and level XP simultaneously.

Aye, if the optinals gave good xp/min that would be fine (heroics and/or legendary). From what I have seen though many if not most of the optionals are also subpar wrt. xp.
 

Dandonk

Well-known member
I pretty much agree. Especially that the optionals are pointless, with no named drops there.

Also, on the topic of the gear: I get the point of the stat squish. But it really makes new gear in expansions a LOT less interesting.
 

Zvdegor

Melee Artificer Freak
Further, a level 18 weapon that does not accept sentience is certainly going to be surpassed by a level 20 weapon with a sentient
Sentient gems should work like any augments. If you put it in a heroic weapon, it became ML 20.
It would not change any of the lvl 20+ weapon's ML.
This way you could use yout lvl 17-19 weapon a bit longer in low epics.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
Optionals are fine when you need XP to level. While leveling XP isn't needed for the Legendary version right now, it will be once the level cap it raised and we're running this content for both RXP and level XP simultaneously.
As Mikarddo mentioned the XP is too low to help on that front. When the Cap is raised, there will be so many ways to level to 34 that it would be hard to make the XP in these optionals enticing. So hard that it looks like the devs didn't even try.

It is interesting that this pack came out immediately after the uproar of the (aborted) XP changes where the devs were aying they wanted players to do optionals. Of all the things that players said (better XP, unique loot, mats, XP stones) would entice them the devs chose none of the above. In fact they did less to encourage optionals than they have in any expansion (mini or otherwise).

Along that line, when people complained about level 18 quest being pointless some suggested that they could be worthwhile if the devs gave reasonable XP to make runnning at level 20 attractive. They didn't do that either.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
As to the OP, I like the quests and find the story arc ones well done (the university assistant ones, not so much). I agree with the other points criticisms. I ran the heroic ones in Reaper as a level 20 and it was nice to have that option the XP was light compared to other (admittedly higher level quests).

And they should really get that of automatic selecting the Epic tab once one is level 20. The quest is legendary and not epic so putting it on the Epic tab is silly. My level 20 is not going to run a level 34 quest (level 36 on reaper) and preselecting the Epic tab meant we had to beat a hasty retreat several times and restart the quest as we accidentally went in to the legendary version. There is a bigger criticism of the leveling from 0 to 32 and the shifts in XP at 20 and 30 that can be made but that is for a different thread.
 

mikarddo

Well-known member
I pretty much agree. Especially that the optionals are pointless, with no named drops there.

Also, on the topic of the gear: I get the point of the stat squish. But it really makes new gear in expansions a LOT less interesting.

Aye, I too get the point. But the thrill we had when we got Ravenloft or Sharn has greatly diminished as a result.
I simply run new expansions way less intensitively now compared to running say Sharn - because the loot does not entice me to do so. I still enjoy the quests but I don't feel the same thrill and desire to get that new set of equipment NOW!
 

Zaszgul

Well-known member
It is interesting that this pack came out immediately after the uproar of the (aborted) XP changes where the devs were aying they wanted players to do optionals. Of all the things that players said (better XP, unique loot, mats, XP stones) would entice them the devs chose none of the above. In fact they did less to encourage optionals than they have in any expansion (mini or otherwise).
Yep.

Along that line, when people complained about level 18 quest being pointless some suggested that they could be worthwhile if the devs gave reasonable XP to make runnning at level 20 attractive. They didn't do that either.
We knew they wouldn't. And that they probably "can't" -- xp is set by a formula they aren't supposed to deviate from.
 

mikarddo

Well-known member
It is interesting that this pack came out immediately after the uproar of the (aborted) XP changes where the devs were aying they wanted players to do optionals. Of all the things that players said (better XP, unique loot, mats, XP stones) would entice them the devs chose none of the above. In fact they did less to encourage optionals than they have in any expansion (mini or otherwise).

That is one very good point. I wish I had made that myself :)
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
We knew they wouldn't. And that they probably "can't" -- xp is set by a formula they aren't supposed to deviate from.
You are likely right which is the bigger criticism about XP and leveling from 0 to cap that is out of scope for this thread.
 
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somenewnoob

Well-known member
Level 17 - 20 heroic quests are in a very bad spot, no exp value, no gear value, no appeal to be run consistent after hit Epics.

SSG needs to address those, lowering some of them to quests ranges where there is lack of content. Would be healthy put some of them on Lv. 10-12 or make anything that hit Lv. 20 Epic for experience purpose.

Lore, story and flower sniffing will hold one or two playthrough interest... after that, those quests are forgotten.
Level 13 really needs a few more quests. Bummed they didn't put them there, or put really anything there for a really long time!

The choice to put at 18 was bad. Outside of ES saga stuff, I rarely touch anything past 16 unless I'm just a little short to hit 20.
 

Steeme

Active member
Mates, you can't put the quest pack at a level lower than Sharn docks (lvl 17) because it comes afterwards in the story.

Personally I enjoy going from 18-20 using the new expansion. There is more than enough XP and it looks like you don't even need to save all of the saga stones on the way up anymore.
 

Fhrek

Ogres are like onions
you can't put the quest pack at a level lower than Sharn docks (lvl 17) because it comes afterwards in the story.

I mean, new/future quests in lower levels.

Now the ones that already are live in the game and can reach Lv. 20 (when/if playing Elite/Reaper) should get the Epic flag for Exp calculation and give Commendations in the end reward list.
 

Dunspartacus

Well-known member
I actually enjoyed the quests/story quite a bit, although that will probably lose some value as I re-run it, and I agree the quest design was pretty decent across the board if not standout. That said, yeah the exp was pretty underwhelming, and level 18 gear is a little too niche of a level, so far I've gotten nothing I like for late heroics or early epics. I am definitely looking forward to the raid though.
 
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