Visage of Terror (Nerf It)

Fizban

Founder, Feb. 2006
Let's be real here. Visage of Terror for a Fighter Dragonloard is way OVERPOWERED. On R10 even with minimal past lives and just a decent intimidate you can mass OK large mobs. This ability really needs to be nerfed to preferably a single target or 3 at MAX. When a fighter's ability can mass kill via a spell better than any caster there is a problem with realistic fantasy.

Additionally, the animation of using the PK tentacles needs to be changed to somethin that is a bit more apprpropriate that would come from a fighter class.
 

eartheyes

outerspacetruth
i am not going to say it is not a really strong ability...but as someone that enjoys playing tanky builds, and winds u soloing more than i like...it is nice to have a little offense.

i know it seems like a huge thing when the mobs are spaced out and the big beefy toon is just deleting a group again and again...but in my experience the cooldown is an eternity when soloing.

but again, i am not saying it is not really strong...heck in most groups currently, aren't ranged toon chewing up mobs before the melees get in range?!
 

Mechgraber

Well-known member
but in my experience the cooldown is an eternity when soloing.
It's 30 SECONDS! Sounds like you're relying on it overmuch, no? Can't do anything else for those 29 seconds in between?

Wail is double that, works more slowly, casts more slowly, has worse DCs, has a worse "if they save" effect, costs spell points, and targets a tougher save for most mobs (fort rather than will).

Imagine being a PM and seeing this, must feel a bit disgusting.
 

eartheyes

outerspacetruth
It's 30 SECONDS! Sounds like you're relying on it overmuch, no? Can't do anything else for those 29 seconds in between?

Wail is double that, works more slowly, casts more slowly, has worse DCs, has a worse "if they save" effect, costs spell points, and targets a tougher save for most mobs (fort rather than will).

Imagine being a PM and seeing this, must feel a bit disgusting.
couldn't a pale master have Weird if they were really that envious of visage of terror? your question of cant do anything in the other 29 seconds is exactly my point, no?!?! if you are a spell caster you can continue to cast, if you are an intim build and count on VoT as your offense, then not so much other offense.

yes, in the example i offered, i would be/was depending on it for as my offense on a tanky toon...and yeah, when you are alone in a quest and pretty much your only viable attack is every 30 seconds it feels like an eternity, in my experience...only speaking for myself here
 

Konsumer

Well-known member
Let's be real here. Visage of Terror for a Fighter Dragonloard is way OVERPOWERED. On R10 even with minimal past lives and just a decent intimidate you can mass OK large mobs. This ability really needs to be nerfed to preferably a single target or 3 at MAX. When a fighter's ability can mass kill via a spell better than any caster there is a problem with realistic fantasy.

Additionally, the animation of using the PK tentacles needs to be changed to somethin that is a bit more apprpropriate that would come from a fighter class.
See... this is why we can't have nice things.
 

drjoans

kinda-known member
I'm not a fan of your petition. I liked visage back when it was barb constitution based and love it even more that its intim based. It's freaking cool you are so dang scary they crap themselves to death. and tenticles of the nameless one reach across the void to clean up that mess. I mean what more could u want dead mobs and no clean up?
 

The Outfit

Well-known member
The only reason Dragonlord fighter is good is because they used a Barbarian tree. Think of the Barbarians (they're like crayon eating children) when you ask for such nerfs.
 

Raedier

Well-known member
Nerf visage to double cooldown and buff ravager t5 and the active attacks, what the OP is suggesting would destroy the entire tree.
I'd like to see slaughter fear surrounding mobs if it kills a target based on intim DC and cruel cut dot increased.
T5 is missing an entire slot, give it like PRR equal to intim or something

As someone that has leveled a first lifer to 110RP doing only the 37/41 pure DL build i can say that yes visage is quite op but the rest of the tree is very meh, you're basically a glass cannon with mediocre DPS and an instakill, it's hella fun to play tho. The only way to stay alive is by tumbling like mad around dooms and such and makes for an exciting playstyle.

Inquisitive on the other hand....
 
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Mykungfu

New member
There are so many monsters immune (undead, oozes, plants, etc) to visage of terror that a nerf is not needed. It’s a niche attack for a specific group of monsters. Casters and pew pews can kill from 50 yards in safety while I have to get upfront and personal and hope that I can group them together. Nerf bad. I’m going back to finish my crayons.
 

Mechgraber

Well-known member
pretty much your only viable attack is every 30 seconds it feels like an eternity, in my experience...only speaking for myself here

That sounds like a you problem. If you can't do anything else and are only relying on one attack, that's not a very good argument for that attack not being overpowered.
 

Mechgraber

Well-known member
Also I think the reason people hate nerfs is that SSG has traditionally been very heavy handed with them, possibly thinking that they need to "stir things up" to keep player interest.

Devs, it is the opposite. That just pisses people off, and makes them lose interest.

This would probably be fine with a 60 or 90 second timer. It's actually better than most epic moments so you could make an argument for longer, but the ravager tree is overall not a strong one and it's the capstone so it should be pretty good. Just not 30 seconds, that's ridiculous, and makes people build only for that, but then complain when it's too long because they have nothing else to do.
 

Teh_Troll

Well-known member
Also I think the reason people hate nerfs is that SSG has traditionally been very heavy handed with them, possibly thinking that they need to "stir things up" to keep player interest.

Devs, it is the opposite. That just pisses people off, and makes them lose interest.
This is true. I literally know NOBODY who doesn't hate this.

Most of us are old, many of us are autistic. We hate change.
 

Jack Jarvis Esquire

Well-known member
Arguements like this have been coming ever since DL took Ravager from Barbs and reduced the reliance on rage/con, and on the face of it, a call to nerf may appear reasonable, superficially at least.

However there are a number of aspects that help to balance Visage in context...

It is a capstone, so precludes any multiclassing. In today's meta, that can prove quite a limitation.

It's capstone in an otherwise pretty underwhelming tree, so you're spending 41 points that could be spent more effectively elsewhere.

It's application is pretty limited. It doesn't work on undead or constructs or slimes, and that's a surprisingly significant proportion of mobs. Also completely redundant on red names, bosses, and higher reapers. Largely useless in most raids too, I've found.

These limitations combined, make Visage a consideration rather than a no brainer choice for build. Nerfing it will likely, and certainly in my barbs case, weight matters heavily towards the more DPS oriented multi class 41 vistani type builds.

Do I want to give it up for 40 more MP, haste boost and attack speed?

Maybe.

But nerf it, and that becomes an easy decision.

I'm not sure that represents balance. It certainly takes us down a more standardised approach by removing it as a desirable option.

I'm not denying that DL is OP. Most latest shinies are. But I'm not convinced Visage is the main culprit here.

Nor is even DL close to imbalanced when compared to the abomination that is apparent in certain zero risk ranged builds right now.
 
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