Visage of Terror (Nerf It)

Fisto Mk I

Well-known member
Actually wail works on a lot more targets then visage does.
Spiders, fire beetles etc are all immune, including all other fear immune mobs and champs.
So, exactly as Weird. But... Weird have 60s non-buffable CD and it's T5 in very inconsistent ED! ;)

Why not ?
Becuz casters cannot obliterate raid boss in 30s (and no, ki bolt Monk is not caster). Balance, you know... 8)
 

Guntango

Well-known member
The uber elites dominate regardless of our beloved nerf happy masses. Nerf everything and they will dominate even harder.
 

Guntango

Well-known member
People always talk about what an ability does and never mention the tradeoffs. Taking Visage is a net loss of DPS in boss fights. It's a trash killer with a really cool lore aspect. Serious character builders will tell you who cares how you kill trash, every good build can kill trash. There is nothing OP about Visage. Going 40 to get Visage means you are making a tradeoff, and your DPS is going to be lower in both boss fights and when you are on timer. That's good game design. The goal should be to give other classes abilities like Visage instead of taking away one of the abilities that actually feels like you are a powerful character.
This.

Fizzy doesn't realize that taking visage nerfs your dps character. All he has to do to make his nerf dreams come true is spend AP.
 

Teh_Troll

Well-known member
This.

Fizzy doesn't realize that taking visage nerfs your dps character. All he has to do to make his nerf dreams come true is spend AP.
It also provides zero value in actual difficult content (push raids). Though maybe 1% of the game does this so perspective may vary.
 

Guntango

Well-known member
It also provides zero value in actual difficult content (push raids). Though maybe 1% of the game does this so perspective may vary.
Leave it to the 1% to find some ridiculous reason to make a normally mediocre talent required.
 

JustHavingFunBro

Well-known member
It's still OP at a few uses per rest. No melee should be able to obliterate a pack on one button press. That's caster territory and it needs to be balanced by other restrictions.
Quick cutter, Boulder Might, and Whirlwind are all wiping out groups of mobs and have 6 second cooldowns. I am starting to think you don't even play DDO. Oh, and they actually work on bosses, champs and reapers.
 

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
Quick cutter, Boulder Might, and Whirlwind are all wiping out groups of mobs and have 6 second cooldowns. I am starting to think you don't even play DDO. Oh, and they actually work on bosses, champs and reapers.
This is the actual state of the game. Developers don't know a thing about their game, players who think they know everything complain about something they are jealous of and the developers listen to THAT ONE PLAYER.

Remember that one time one player couldn't access a tavern vendor because some dude had a horse and he didn't?

DDO is a living breathing dunning-krugger effect.
 

Misadventure

Killing everybody on Hardcore with pleasure.
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Synalon

Well-known member
Just increase its cooldown. At 30 seconds that's almost every-encounter territory. The ability is very strong but doesn't need to be neutered. 60 seconds would be more reasonable.
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
Of course visage is OP and should be nerfed. Only an idiot doesn't realise this. Its EIN with 1/6th the cooldown.

I think the issue is its not any more overpowered than the alternatives, which should also be nerfed. :)

I dunno, or buff monsters instead?
 

Fizban

Founder, Feb. 2006
The only reason Dragonlord fighter is good is because they used a Barbarian tree. Think of the Barbarians (they're like crayon eating children) when you ask for such nerfs.
Most barbarians do not use the Ravenger tree. They mainly rely on melee power for damage which is at it should be. There is a reason why the Dragonlord in between cooldowns don't get many kills as overall the build isn't that strong. Like a prvious poster stated a level 23 Dragonloard can PK everything on R10. Thats a bit out of whack.
 

The Outfit

Well-known member
Most barbarians do not use the Ravenger tree. They mainly rely on melee power for damage which is at it should be. There is a reason why the Dragonlord in between cooldowns don't get many kills as overall the build isn't that strong. Like a prvious poster stated a level 23 Dragonloard can PK everything on R10. Thats a bit out of whack.
Geez you are serious. How do you know that I don't play the ravanger tree as a crayon eating barb? Oh never mind everyone plays the same.

To actually be serious about anything on the forums or in game 😂. So glad I picked back up on a old hobby.
 
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Grunndi

Well-known member
Arguements like this have been coming ever since DL took Ravager from Barbs and reduced the reliance on rage/con, and on the face of it, a call to nerf may appear reasonable, superficially at least.

However there are a number of aspects that help to balance Visage in context...

It is a capstone, so precludes any multiclassing. In today's meta, that can prove quite a limitation.

It's capstone in an otherwise pretty underwhelming tree, so you're spending 41 points that could be spent more effectively elsewhere.

It's application is pretty limited. It doesn't work on undead or constructs or slimes, and that's a surprisingly significant proportion of mobs. Also completely redundant on red names, bosses, and higher reapers. Largely useless in most raids too, I've found.

These limitations combined, make Visage a consideration rather than a no brainer choice for build. Nerfing it will likely, and certainly in my barbs case, weight matters heavily towards the more DPS oriented multi class 41 vistani type builds.

Do I want to give it up for 40 more MP, haste boost and attack speed?

Maybe.

But nerf it, and that becomes an easy decision.

I'm not sure that represents balance. It certainly takes us down a more standardised approach by removing it as a desirable option.

I'm not denying that DL is OP. Most latest shinies are. But I'm not convinced Visage is the main culprit here.

Nor is even DL close to imbalanced when compared to the abomination that is apparent in certain zero risk ranged builds right now.
Really well said.

Not gonna lie, as a TYWA Dwarf and flavor build aficionado, I didn’t like when it switched from Con to Intim since that kind of removed the specialness of the Con based Dwarf Barb Ravager. And I was inclined to agree with OP on impulse.

But that made me reconsider, having more stuff that’s viable but not a no-brainer is good for the game and for build variety IMO. And I certainly haven’t noticed Visage builds running rampant in every PuG.
 

Kritikal

......
One of two things:

1 - Usage was based on number of Rages. Not anymore. Revert it back.

2 - If you're not going to do 1, increase the cooldown to 60-90 seconds.

Fixed

Most barbarians do not use the Ravenger tree. <snip>

Fizban, serious question, do you play a barbarian? or are you guessing about "most barbarians?"

My Ravager Barbarian would like to have a word with you, and his DPS is just fine. As for Dragonlords, I wouldn't know. I haven't played mine. He's currently a mule until the Devs add a toggle allowing me to turn off the lag-inducing (just my own thoughts) green vomit under his feet.

As others in this thread have said, you have to give up something to get the capstone.
 

Vua

Well-known member
Most barbarians do not use the Ravenger tree. They mainly rely on melee power for damage which is at it should be. There is a reason why the Dragonlord in between cooldowns don't get many kills as overall the build isn't that strong. Like a prvious poster stated a level 23 Dragonloard can PK everything on R10. Thats a bit out of whack.
Doubling down on complete nonsense.
 

Neo

The One
I think its interesting to see the different types of speeds of r10 quest completions are indicated by what a player asks to be nerfed. How long does it take your average group to complete r10 if an ability on a 30 second cooldown is ruining your fun?
 
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