Warlock Pact: Xoriat

[Magrok]

Alignment: non-Lawful
Eldritch Blast Pact Damage: Chaotic (pink)
Pact Damage Save: Will
Pact Save Bonus: Will ("Daelkyr's Insanity")
1st-level spell (level 2): Chaos Bolt
2nd-level spell (level 5): Hypnotic Pattern
First Special Ability (level 6):

• Wondrous Power: (Activation Cost: 10 Spell Points. Cooldown: 1 minute.) Gain an effect from the Potion of Wonder list, using your Caster Level (max 25).

3rd-level spell (level 9): Greater Color Spray
4th-level spell (level 14): Cyclonic Blast
Second Special Ability (level 15):

• Artistic Creation: (Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 25 seconds.) Turn yourself or an ally into a Taken, gaining +1d4+1 alchemical bonus to each ability score and +25% Fortification. Lasts 1 minute per Caster Level (max 20 minutes). Hidden Effect: 5% chance it's wearing a hat like in the fashion show!

5th-level spell (level 17): Turn to Frog
6th-level spell (level 19): Prismatic Spray

This was originally going to just be a suggestion for a warlock pact with a pink damage color, but then I realized, given I'm ME, I should really just write up the whole thing.

 

[l_remmie]

Just like the enhancement trees, most destinies have lots of junk thats for other classes, builds or downright bad.

Warlocks need a destiny that has its main focus on them and they need an endgame powerboost but how to do that is a hard question.

I like the evil/curse flavor it's a good theme and not chosen just for power.
Some undead/negative synergy seems also appropiate.

Its hard to know how much dps increase the extra pact dice will give. The "warlock destiny" should give some but i dont know what the right number is.

Metamagics on blast is extremely powerful in any case. With the additional dice even more so. Pretty sure this is to much of a good thing.

I'd like to see a bit more nods and tie ins for other casters to choose this.
Especially for the evil cleric who also loves curses.

 

[Magrok]

I like it but make all the other warlock pacts this good first

That is the idea; I posted a little ways up the thread with new pact mechanics and spells. Haven't done special abilities because I don't know enough about what needs improvement.

I think I'd change the auto-strip to be an 18th-level ability though, based on feedback.

 

[Magrok]

I'd like to see a bit more nods and tie ins for other casters to choose this.
Especially for the evil cleric who also loves curses.

Like what, if I may ask?

 

[droid327]

Part of the problem is with the concept of immunity strippers itself, and how binary they are - either you do no damage at all, or you completely ignore immunities

If we're just theory crafting here then I've often suggested strippers set mobs at 50% absorb against the element rather than grant 100% damage right out of the box. That'd make it reasonable to kill immune enemies, but it'd still be harder. Maybe have an enhancement in T2 SE or TS where EB stacks -10% absorb vs immune/healed-by mobs, up to 5

On the spell books, warlocks were specifically designed *not* to have direct damage spells. Cold and Neg got some DOTs, and all locks get EBT and tempest, but i very much doubt you'd ever sell the devs on an AOE burst nuke like fire storm or acid well.

Buffs might be something that you could work into pact spells more to define them. Celestial especially seems like a good place to put in some more creative buff spell options, maybe even close wounds for a positive heal.

 

[l_remmie]

Its a psychology thing. You need to "sell" your design. You want to show people who have their favorite builds and classes why this destiny is for them.

Flavor does a lot of that and you already have some good curse flavor. Naming some mechanics, feats, spells or trees is another.
That makes players immediately see, hey here is something for me.

It's incredibly hard to do.

For example
With multi selectors you can cheat and put some things thematically together.
For example, alchemist apothecary, pale master and dark apostate. They all have synergy with negative energy. You could make an ability that ties your curse flavor together with their negative energy.
Like applying a curse to their SLA's or something.

Not saying this is a great idea or balanced just a way to hint at something to build around and hint that this destiny has something for multiple classes and builds.

Not criticizing just showing some game design/psychology things that are interesting.

 

[Magrok]

Part of the problem is with the concept of immunity strippers itself, and how binary they are - either you do no damage at all, or you completely ignore immunities

If we're just theory crafting here then I've often suggested strippers set mobs at 50% absorb against the element rather than grant 100% damage right out of the box. That'd make it reasonable to kill immune enemies, but it'd still be harder. Maybe have an enhancement in T2 SE or TS where EB stacks -10% absorb vs immune/healed-by mobs, up to 5

On the spell books, warlocks were specifically designed *not* to have direct damage spells. Cold and Neg got some DOTs, and all locks get EBT and tempest, but i very much doubt you'd ever sell the devs on an AOE burst nuke like fire storm or acid well.

Buffs might be something that you could work into pact spells more to define them. Celestial especially seems like a good place to put in some more creative buff spell options, maybe even close wounds for a positive heal.

Why put the immunity strip in specific enhancement trees? Doesn't that make those enhancements mandatory?

 

[droid327]

Why put the immunity strip in specific enhancement trees? Doesn't that make those enhancements mandatory?

Thats why I said T2, then its only a 7 point requirement. And baking it in at 12 or 15 or 18 class levels pushes it back too far in Heroic progression, and potentially limits multiclass options.

And its not de facto required. You could get a strip for Fiend pact in Tiefling, you could do Chaosmancer for several pacts, GOO/Celestial can manage the occasional immune, and Fey/Dark Powers pacts wont need one at all

 

[l_remmie]

Immunity stripping takes tier5 and core6 for other classes that need it more.
Warlocks shouldn't get it for 7ap in korthos.

It's ok for enhancement trees to have some "mandatory" options. You want people to make choices. Some easy, some harder like choosing which tier5 or capstone vs splash.

 

[DBZ]

It should be level 12 for all outdated classes these days which is most of them

And remove the useless haste spells give them the actual sprint boost spell as an option to keep up in todays game

 

[Magrok]

So a Core 5 (18th-level) auto-strip for 50% damage in one tree, and in the other tree a Tier 3 or 4 activated strip for 10/20/30% damage with a slow (rez spell) casting animation?

That way you can pick your poison.

 

[Magrok]

Assuming we swap Dark Delirium and Misty Step for Fey, I'm guessing the main offenders wrt special abilities are Create Thrall and Ameliorate?

 

[Anurakh]

Your idea is pretty well designed. It is flavorful and would work well. The problem is the comparative powerlvl. All the pacts have major flaws on purpose and half of the spells and abilities are useless.

In my opinion, it's a huge mistake that half of a warlock's spells and abilities are useless. It's one of the reasons they're underperforming right now.

Warlock needs a deep update.

 

[Anurakh]

Am I on the right track?

General​

• By default, pact damage scales with the higher of <element> and Force Spell Power. (This does not change for Utterdark Blast.)
• Pact damage is not subject to Evasion, Improved Evasion, or Mettle (if they ever add that).
• Pacts add a new special ability at 12th level, which is the same for all existing pacts: Every fifth eldritch blast strips immunity to <pact element> for 5 seconds.

Pact Spells​

Fey​

1 (1st-level) Obscuring Mist
2 (3rd-level) Slow
3 (6th-level) Greater Dispel Magic
4 (7th-level) Otto's Sphere of Dancing
5 (8th-level) Otto's Irresistible Dance
6 (9th-level) Summon Nature's Ally IX

Fiend​

1 (1st-level) Command
2 (3rd-level) Rage
3 (nth-level) Binding Chain
4 (5th-level) Greater Command
5 (8th-level) Fire Storm
6 (9th-level) Power Word: Kill

Great Old One​

1 (1st-level) Entangle
2 (2nd-level) Animal Trance
3 (4th-level) Phantasmal Killer
4 (6th-level) Mass Suggestion
5 (7th-level) Destruction
6 (9th-level) Acid Well

Celestial​

1 (1st-level) Bless
2 (3rd-level) Prayer
3 (5th-level) Divine Punishment
4 (7th-level) Greater Restoration
5 (8th-level) Holy Aura
6 (9th-level) Divine Wrath

Abyss​

1 (1st-level) Chill Touch
2 (2nd-level) Lesser Death Aura
3 (4th-level) Death Aura
4 (6th-level) Necrotic Ray
5 (8th-level) Symbol of Death
6 (9th-level) Rend the Soul

Carceri Storm​

1 (1st-level) Niac's Cold Ray
2 (2nd-level) Creeping Cold
3 (5th-level) Niac's Biting Cold
4 (6th-level) Greater Creeping Cold
5 (8th-level) Polar Ray
6 (9th-level) Iceberg

Warlock needs improvements, but this is excessive.

 

[Mnemor]

And its not de facto required. You could get a strip for Fiend pact in Tiefling, you could do Chaosmancer for several pacts, GOO/Celestial can manage the occasional immune, and Fey/Dark Powers pacts wont need one at all

Golems are still very frustrating without a bypass.

 

[l_remmie]

In my opinion, it's a huge mistake that half of a warlock's spells and abilities are useless. It's one of the reasons they're underperforming right now.

Warlock needs a deep update.

Agree.

If an option is truly useless it's not actually a game choice. It's a waste of space and design time.

In magic the gathering making "bad cards" serves some purpose. It is the low bar for players to learn what is good and bad and why. But every magic set has over a hundred cards. You dont play them and thats that.
In ddo warlocks get 6 pact spells and 2 abilities. There is no room for "bad cards".

Everything needs to support the build identity or/and a functioning playstyle.
Choices may be niche or weaker but it has to do something.
Using the lvl15 ability for a charm is a colossal waste of prime real estate.

In any case ssg would have more to work with if they ever considered updating weak spells from pen and paper from 30 years ago.

 

[l_remmie]

Golems are still very frustrating without a bypass.

Frustrating but doable. That's a good incentive to get creative or team up.

Full immunities are just a brick wall sometimes.

 

[Anurakh]

Frustrating but doable. That's a good incentive to get creative or team up.

Full immunities are just a brick wall sometimes.

My main has been a wizard for 14 years. And no, golems are much worse than full immunities. A full immunity forces you to use other spells, but you still have workable DPS. Golems absorb ALL spells to ridiculous extremes, with the sole exception of Ruins.

Golems are much, much worse. In Feywild, cold immunities are common, so I change mantles and use non-cold spells. I lose a significant portion of my DPS, but I'm still functional. Against golems, it's frustrating, and killing them takes much longer than when I encounter a boss with full immunity.

No boss is immune to all magic. But golems are extremely resistant to all elements. Way way worse. The same goes for a warlock. With a warlock facing a pact-immune enemy, you lose half your DPS. Facing a golem, both your pact and base EB are reduced to ridiculously low levels, like 10% of your DPS.

 

[Magrok]

Warlock needs improvements, but this is excessive.

If you elaborate on what parts are excessive, I can work to balance it better.
On the other hand someone else said it didn't go far enough, so I suppose I won't please everyone.

On the spell books, warlocks were specifically designed *not* to have direct damage spells. Cold and Neg got some DOTs, and all locks get EBT and tempest, but i very much doubt you'd ever sell the devs on an AOE burst nuke like fire storm or acid well.

Buffs might be something that you could work into pact spells more to define them. Celestial especially seems like a good place to put in some more creative buff spell options, maybe even close wounds for a positive heal.

Any spells in particular you'd replace the nukes with? I'm trying to keep the 5th- and 6th-spells at (8th) and (9th) going by standard levels.

 

[Magrok]

General​

The new 12th-level pact special ability is removed.

Soul Eater​

At Tier 3, replace Burning Blood with Soul Seasoning: Activation Cost 5 Spell Points, Cooldown 20 seconds. Increases <pact element> damage taken by 10/20/30% for 10 seconds. When cast on a creature that is immune to that element, it makes them vulnerable to it for the duration, taking 10/20/30% of the damage total. Slow casting animation, like a resurrection spell. AP Cost: 2/rank.

Tainted Scholar​

At Core 5, add an auto-strip for <pact element> immunity, every five eldritch blasts, duration 5 seconds. Creatures that were immune take 50% of the damage total. Creatures that were not immune are unaffected.

This is cheaper than Soul Seasoning, more effective, and passive vs. active, but requires a much larger tree investment, is available much later in character level, and has no effect on other creatures.



Hopefully this leaves both l_remmie and droid327 unsatisfied, which I'm fairly sure is one definition of a compromise. ^_~
And note that Soul Seasoning would help with golems, too.

 

[l_remmie]

My main has been a wizard for 14 years. And no, golems are much worse than full immunities. A full immunity forces you to use other spells, but you still have workable DPS. Golems absorb ALL spells to ridiculous extremes, with the sole exception of Ruins.

Golems are much, much worse. In Feywild, cold immunities are common, so I change mantles and use non-cold spells. I lose a significant portion of my DPS, but I'm still functional. Against golems, it's frustrating, and killing them takes much longer than when I encounter a boss with full immunity.

No boss is immune to all magic. But golems are extremely resistant to all elements. Way way worse. The same goes for a warlock. With a warlock facing a pact-immune enemy, you lose half your DPS. Facing a golem, both your pact and base EB are reduced to ridiculously low levels, like 10% of your DPS.

In DDO you have more options grabbing another element and swapping some gear around. Which is good and you should. Then immunities are less of a brick wall and golems are by comparison a lot more annoying. So you make a good point.

In general though immunities against you can really be a brick wall. Or on the other side make your player character unkillable and content a boring joke. Deathward in ddo for example is ridiculously warping to the game.