Warlocks and the absence of lore

[Frantik]

I am sure that this subject has been discussed before.

Warlocks are seekers of knowledge so why not give them arcane and religious and wilderness [feedback is good] lore progression similar to bards? Any objections?

 

[erethizon1]

Sounds like a good idea to me. I'd like to see more characters able to pass lore checks.

 

[Smokewolf]

I am sure that this subject has been discussed before.

Warlocks are seekers of knowledge so why not give them arcane, relugious and wilderness lore progression same as bards? Any objections?

Truth is that noone cares about locks much after the decade of nerfs they've been subjected to.

 

[Anurakh]

Absolutely not. Warlocks aren't seekers of knowledge, they're seekers of power, and instead of seeking it for themselves like wizards, they make pacts with powerful entities to achieve it.

Warlocks need many improvements, but this isn't one of them.

Wizards should have those skills. In PnP, they have all the knowledge skills as class skills and a very high INT to use them. Generally, in PnP, there's no class more knowledgeable than the wizard. And in DDO, they removed the knowledge and didn't give the wizard anything to replace it.

Bards are globetrotters who pick up (and spread) legends and rumors wherever they go. To represent this, they had bardic knowledge, which was a special roll that allowed them to know things about every subject even without having invested knowledge. Generally not as deeply as a wizard, but still, they knew a little about everything. In DDO, all the lores have been given them, while the wizard, the scholar always among books, has been given nothing but the arcane.

Warlocks need other improvements. Not this. Warlocks are seekers of power, not knowledge. Yes, one can say that knowledge is power, but warlocks negotiate directly for power.

 

[Frantik]

Indeed, knowledge is power; one can perhaps have power thrust upon them, but mostly we need a profound understanding of all concepts and the knowhow (and willingness) to manipulate to achieve power. This is knowledge, Power is knowledge being applied.

 

[Terpilar]

Monks should definitely have religious lore, because monks, duh. A case could be made for warlocks and arcane lore.

 

[Frantik]

Monks should definitely have religious lore, because monks, duh. A case could be made for warlocks and arcane lore.

Agreed. I think for Monks, Turbine (originally) could have proposed a couple of special deities for Handwraps and Shuriken (I am a very optimisitic person). SSG went a half-way house approach to handwraps for Sacred Fists but it could be be retro-applied to Monks. Having Handwrap, Shuriken and Quarterstaff Deity bonuses would be cool.

 

[Terpilar]

Agreed. I think for Monks, Turbine (originally) could have proposed a couple of special deities for Handwraps and Shuriken (I am a very optimisitic person). SSG went a half-way house approach to handwraps for Sacred Fists but it could be be retro-applied to Monks. Having Handwrap, Shuriken and Quarterstaff Deity bonuses would be cool.

I"d be satisfied with just religious lore for monks, the ki-weapon-to-deity-favored-weapon perk would rather belong in some monkish enhancement tree IMO, perhaps HM.

Back to warlocks, perhaps the selection of a pact would dictate the lore granted.

 

[misterski]

It should be pact dependent. They are not like bards with regards to lore.

 

[Phoenicis]

IMO the extent of a warlock's 'lore' is "How do I contact this powerful thing and make a deal for POWAH!"

 

[Frantik]

IMO the extent of a warlock's 'lore' is "How do I contact this powerful thing and make a deal for POWAH!"

They specialise in an arcane damage type, they choose their Pact (partly) in function of alignment, and they roam the wilds and not the cities.

 

[misterski]

They specialise in an arcane damage type, they choose their Pact (partly) in function of alignment, and they roam the wilds and not the cities.

Dude you are really stretching your reasoning here. "and they roam the wilds and not the cities" is a very big stretch. Where does that come from?

 

[Fizban]

I am sure that this subject has been discussed before.

Warlocks are seekers of knowledge so why not give them arcane, religious and wilderness lore progression same as bards? Any objections?

Yes, they should ONLY have exactly what is in the D&D rule book for this class and nothing more.

 

[Frantik]

Well, saying

Yes, they should ONLY have exactly what is in the D&D rule book for this class and nothing more.

irrc, there were no such things as arcane, religious and wilderness lore "feats" in 3.5, so the application of these lores is a developper choice. I think that their choice is perhaps flawed.

 

[Frantik]

Dude you are really stretching your reasoning here. "and they roam the wilds and not the cities" is a very big stretch. Where does that come from?

I agree... I went one step too far... after your post, and some extremely intensive and rigerous diagonal reading, I should really modify the OP to Arcane and Religious lore. It does seem that Wilderness isn't their thing, and I must have been thinking of Tolkein. Oops, kudos on you!

 

[Tyrande]

I agree... I went one step too far... after your post, and some extremely intensive and rigerous diagonal reading, I should really modify the OP to Arcane and Religious lore. It does seem that Wilderness isn't their thing, and I must have been thinking of Tolkein. Oops, kudos on you!

There are only a hands full of quests for warlock specific quests that require the player to use arcane and religious lore: Rest Stop, The Darkness and the Light, Lords of Dust. Why not just blast away everything like the sorcerer except the sorcerer isn't religious? The job of reading and interacting stuff belongs to the wizards while praying and interacting with religious icons belong to cleric and favored souls which should be in your party unless you're soloing? If running on low difficulty (i.e. R1 (4?) or below), I do not know why you need them unless you're Role Playing with friends.

 

[erethizon1]

There are only a hands full of quests for warlock specific quests that require the player to use arcane and religious lore: Rest Stop, The Darkness and the Light, Lords of Dust. Why not just blast away everything like the sorcerer except the sorcerer isn't religious? The job of reading and interacting stuff belongs to the wizards while praying and interacting with religious icons belong to cleric and favored souls which should be in your party unless you're soloing? If running on low difficulty (i.e. R1 (4?) or below), I do not know why you need them unless you're Role Playing with friends.

I would really like for there to be a build that can do every non-combat thing DDO has to offer (since there are so few of them). Someone that wants to specialize in knowledge and diplomacy would ideally be allowed to do. Much like I enjoy making my main character able to detect secret doors and open locks so I don't miss out on any loot or sections of the dungeons, it would be good to have a character that can specialize in all of the "talking" checks the game has (and I including things like poisoning the meat in Mask of Deception even though you are not technically talking to the meat).

 

[droid327]

I would really like for there to be a build that can do every non-combat thing DDO has to offer (since there are so few of them). Someone that wants to specialize in knowledge and diplomacy would ideally be allowed to do. Much like I enjoy making my main character able to detect secret doors and open locks so I don't miss out on any loot or sections of the dungeons, it would be good to have a character that can specialize in all of the "talking" checks the game has (and I including things like poisoning the meat in Mask of Deception even though you are not technically talking to the meat).

A bard rogue should be able to cover most skill checks. Cha based for social skills, access to trapping skills, umd class skill, all three lores, plenty of skill points. Probably need a +8 tome and full +3 skill tomes since you can't max absolutely everything but with swap gear you should be able to work it

 

[erethizon1]

A bard rogue should be able to cover most skill checks. Cha based for social skills, access to trapping skills, umd class skill, all three lores, plenty of skill points. Probably need a +8 tome and full +3 skill tomes since you can't max absolutely everything but with swap gear you should be able to work it

I might have to try that some day. I'll need to pay more attention to what talking options are out there. Is there a website that shows all the skill checks in the game sorted by quest or whatever? (Like all wilderness lore checks, all perform checks, etc.)? I made a 3.5 edition rogue that had 14+ int and all 10+ of his skills were non-combat (including non-trap) related. He was entirely a master of running through a big city manipulating people and getting things done without combat. Such a character could be fun in DDO (though way less fun since the game is so combat related) as long as I also have someone to carry him through the combat.

 

[Fizban]

Well, saying

irrc, there were no such things as arcane, religious and wilderness lore "feats" in 3.5, so the application of these lores is a developper choice. I think that their choice is perhaps flawed.

There is in D&D 5.0 and Warlocks still do not have arcane lore.