What are the loot drop %'s for the new content coming out?

[Abax11]

So a person made request or changes without knowing about game balance? Probably 99% if not 100% of the playerbase knows balances are done without playing the game but having an official response confirming that feels a bit weird to me.

And yes, pretty much confirm loot predatory system coming in this expansion again.

 

[Bobbryan2]

I look at both short and long term trends and take both into account. So when these types of changes happen, and they happen in more cases than just this, it's something we can take a look at and understand. That way, no, we're not just looking at one slice of time or one specific moment and using it to determine something in the future. We're instead identifying "oh, this changed, and we know why it changed, and this is what it means in context of everything else around it."

Ok... Since you're here and asking questions, I've got some for you.
The DDO store is actually a really bad user experience. I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for my extended us. A lot of this seems to be in contradiction to what you have said.


One is in pricing. Why are items not reevaluated for prices? We introduce things like Jeweler's Toolkits at a specific price. Then we introduce Sentient Toolkits at a lower price because they're designed to be used much more frequently. Then we release multiple updates that use the original Jeweler's Toolkits as frequently as Sentient Toolkits. It seems like once a price is put into the store, it is set into stone and it will never ever change again.

Which brings me to
Why do we keep so much anti-user items in the store. These items only serve as exploitive traps to trick people into spending their points if they don't know anything about the game. A +2 greatsword? 100 DDO pts. A +3 flaming burst kama? 300 DDO pts. These were bad when the DDO store came out 15 years ago and I said so at the time. In the 15 intervening years, they've just become worse. This was like 3-4 weapon effects passes ago... you can literally get something better by looting a chest and using it whether you're proficient or not.


They say in video game development, you have to hit that sweet spot where you do about 33% new content/33% bug fix and streamline/33% systems updates.
My biggest complaint about the store is that SSG's philosophy with it is 95% new stuff/5% systems streamlining.

The biggest thing you could do with that store is remove the sections with the stuff that is just there to trick people that don't know better. Reprice things based on some player feedback. There are some great items in the store that people would use if they were priced at a price that made sense.
There needs to be someone that simply asks the question, "Is this part of the store still good with this iteration of the game?"
And right now that person is saying that they're really not into the day-to-day. Which... fair. But someone needs to be that touches the store.

 

[Kitty2Meow]

They implied, but didn't specifically confirm the drop rates remain 33 elite / 16 hard / 10 normal when they defended the myth drannor rare drop rates.

I don't expect rare drops to change or they would have specifically stated that to boost xpac sales.

Instead they introduced ransack reset potions lol.

I think that is information to assume no significant change to the rare drop approach.

In addition to drop rates and rare items - # of common/rare items that drop in a specific quest are key.

If SSG turtle up or are not willing to confirm the named drop rate and rare loot mechanics. I will keep my money in my wallet, and just use DDO points to get the Xpack in 6-9 months.

I still do not have the Myth Drannor rare items that I really want after one year, 6-9 months waiting most likely won't make a difference; so I will rather wait and save the money.

 

[EvanBanning]

I wouldn't try to use this potion to infer something about the other areas of the game because it's not how we do the development process.

That's all separate, and to be honest I don't know what the drop rates are going to be for the new content.

Then you should seriously get someone who CAN tell us what the drop rates are going to be to show up and tell us.

Without this information, we're left to assume that ransack reset potions are just another painful cash-grab meant to punish players for continuing to support the game.

I'm not going to buy the xpac if it continues MD's abusive loot mechanics. Not telling us is hurting sales.

 

[Epicsoul]

Depending on how folks feel and how folks use this item, that may change what I'll be suggesting for the potion going forward.

I will use them for new raids when they're released, which has the added benefit of players buying bypass timers as well. However, whether or not I'd buy one from the store depends on the price.

I've mentioned in other posts that yeah, how players use items and services is pretty meaningful to me, and this is one area that I do keep an eye on.

I'll say the same here that I will say to my colleagues any day of the week: More of a certain behavior does not always equal success. This is definitely one of those areas, as increased rerolls could be beneficial in the short term, sure, but it doesn't necessarily improve quality, it doesn't necessarily improve fun, it doesn't necessarily offer meaningful difficulty, etc... There are many other important goals that need to be hit. Revenue should never be the metric that drives development alone.

A few more folks rerolled? That's nice, and very appreciated that folks are willing to support us and the game in that way, but that's not telling me enough information about the game. It's one data point in a suite of data points. This is actually an area we've been diving more into so I can help development not just look at the easy-to-find numbers - we want to better understand how folks play quests and dungeons and use spaces. We want to see what's popular and what's not and understand why. We want to be looking at the wider picture. Actually pretty excited about it, but that's a very separate discussion.

Well let me provide one qualitative data set for you. Have players rolled more since the abysmal drop rates on rare loot in MD? Probably. Have players become bitter about the entire experience? Without a doubt.

We all understand SSG has to make money. But there are ways that feel better to the customer than an RNG slot machine. SSG seriously needs to revisit the rare loot tables, and find more valuable ways for players to spend their money.

 

[EvanBanning]

Honestly if the racksack resetters were priced appropriately, I would actually buy them instead of shard rerolls. I will never spend a single penny on a shard reroll. But this new mechanic, again if priced reasonably, I would buy.

Please not that "appropriately" here means less than 500 DDO points. Not 3,000, not as part of an $80 bundle. Standalone cost for a decent price, only.

 

[Elminster]

Yeah, I can provide some info here, as we're talking about Loot Ransack Reset Potions and that's in my area.

I wouldn't try to use this potion to infer something about the other areas of the game because it's not how we do the development process. My requests for these types of items are a separate track from how the game is balanced. In this specific case, this idea was very separate from drop rate changes. It was ideated at a different time, it had been on the product list for a while, and it felt like something interesting to introduce with the expansion, where we normally put in something like this.

So this isn't about relieving a problem with drop rates, nor is it about changing the drop rates to create this item. That's all separate, and to be honest I don't know what the drop rates are going to be for the new content. Just not involved with that on a day-to-day level.

As to the future of this item, yeah, it's something that we'd like to eventually bring into the store, but it's also something we'd like to introduce slowly to see how it affects said systems, how folks use it and approach it, and work with the community to find what's appropriate. It's why I try to come around here as much as possible - hearing folks opinions and commentary on what's going on is super important. It's also why the item quantity is currently capped.

Depending on how folks feel and how folks use this item, that may change what I'll be suggesting for the potion going forward.

I've mentioned in other posts that yeah, how players use items and services is pretty meaningful to me, and this is one area that I do keep an eye on.

I'll say the same here that I will say to my colleagues any day of the week: More of a certain behavior does not always equal success. This is definitely one of those areas, as increased rerolls could be beneficial in the short term, sure, but it doesn't necessarily improve quality, it doesn't necessarily improve fun, it doesn't necessarily offer meaningful difficulty, etc... There are many other important goals that need to be hit. Revenue should never be the metric that drives development alone.

A few more folks rerolled? That's nice, and very appreciated that folks are willing to support us and the game in that way, but that's not telling me enough information about the game. It's one data point in a suite of data points. This is actually an area we've been diving more into so I can help development not just look at the easy-to-find numbers - we want to better understand how folks play quests and dungeons and use spaces. We want to see what's popular and what's not and understand why. We want to be looking at the wider picture. Actually pretty excited about it, but that's a very separate discussion.



I look at both short and long term trends and take both into account. So when these types of changes happen, and they happen in more cases than just this, it's something we can take a look at and understand. That way, no, we're not just looking at one slice of time or one specific moment and using it to determine something in the future. We're instead identifying "oh, this changed, and we know why it changed, and this is what it means in context of everything else around it."

— Celestrata

Thank you so much for keeping us in mind and responding! That is refreshing. I haven’t heard of you yet but you chalked one up in the positive column.

That being said, I’m a bit of a cynic. I look at an item like this and think to myself, “What is the purpose for this item existing?” And in that way my only response is ,”it explicitly exists for those grinding out loot who did not manage to get the loot in the 8 chest and 3 rerolls (through shards) and need to repeat the process again and possibly again after that ad nauseum.”

Then I logically deduce and ask the question, “if the loot rolls were ‘fair’ (pre-Myth D) why would anyone need to use an item like this ?”

The answer: they wouldn’t.

Which can only mean … (I’ll let you finish this thought).

Bottom line, this is an item that exists to feed an unhealthy addiction; and to get the customer to “keep putting coins into the machine”. The item will do well, very well. As an employee of SSG you performed your duty exceptionally for your shareholders and owners. (and I say this genuinely, you should be proud if you came up with this idea, literally brilliant).

On the otherhand, like you have mentioned, please be aware there is a long-term component to this game. And, again, like you said one needs to balance this with the game’s longevity in mind.

Of course, I can get super cynical and if Lamordia drops with MythD like drop rates, it can only mean we’re at the end of the lifespan for this product and you all are squeezing out the final bits.

But we shall see !

 

[Celestrata Bloodsong]

Ok... Since you're here and asking questions, I've got some for you.
The DDO store is actually a really bad user experience. I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak for my extended us. A lot of this seems to be in contradiction to what you have said.


One is in pricing. Why are items not reevaluated for prices? We introduce things like Jeweler's Toolkits at a specific price. Then we introduce Sentient Toolkits at a lower price because they're designed to be used much more frequently. Then we release multiple updates that use the original Jeweler's Toolkits as frequently as Sentient Toolkits. It seems like once a price is put into the store, it is set into stone and it will never ever change again.

Which brings me to
Why do we keep so much anti-user items in the store. These items only serve as exploitive traps to trick people into spending their points if they don't know anything about the game. A +2 greatsword? 100 DDO pts. A +3 flaming burst kama? 300 DDO pts. These were bad when the DDO store came out 15 years ago and I said so at the time. In the 15 intervening years, they've just become worse. This was like 3-4 weapon effects passes ago... you can literally get something better by looting a chest and using it whether you're proficient or not.


They say in video game development, you have to hit that sweet spot where you do about 33% new content/33% bug fix and streamline/33% systems updates.
My biggest complaint about the store is that SSG's philosophy with it is 95% new stuff/5% systems streamlining.

The biggest thing you could do with that store is remove the sections with the stuff that is just there to trick people that don't know better. Reprice things based on some player feedback. There are some great items in the store that people would use if they were priced at a price that made sense.
There needs to be someone that simply asks the question, "Is this part of the store still good with this iteration of the game?"
And right now that person is saying that they're really not into the day-to-day. Which... fair. But someone needs to be that touches the store.

I think you may have probably missed one of my prior posts on this, because I feel like I've said this out loud, but yeah, this is something I agree with. I re-joined the team last year, it's been great to be back, but a lot of work has had to be done. One of those specific areas has been in store improvement and pricing. The project here has started with something very basic, but very long and very important: store inventory.

You know how stores close down to check all of their items from time to time? I've basically been doing that for both games and, trust me, there are a lot of items. Because this counts not only the current items, but also the historical items too that you don't see. Everything is getting categorized and logged so it's known, easily accessible, and, most importantly, editable as a group. So it's a... honestly intimidating number. But it's almost done (yay) and after that I want to move on to pricing and item structure. That will be a faster process because everything will be known and streamlined by that point.

For the store as a program and interface, that's something that may take a bit longer. The team that will be responsible for making improvements going forward is inheriting the program from another group, so there's learning going on. Once folks feel comfortable making changes, yeah, we'll probably be asking for some larger adjustments. Right now the changes that have occurred are pretty small and mostly unnoticeable by anyone. Things like editing how search works, for example, to slowly improve it.

And to clarify what I mean by "day-to-day" I mean specifically the smaller, rapidly changing conversations that folks have that happen all the time. When a team or a dev decides on something, then yeah, it's something we all know and there are shared meetings where it's talked about as a group. It's more that I don't want to speak to something outside of my area of expertise and then misspeak to it or misrepresent it.

 

[5 Other People]

It's not like SSG is selling street corner narcotics here, but ransack was an off-ramp for many folks and a good reason to step away. I think this will mostly be bought by consenting adults and i'm all about freedom of choice, but someone gonna go to far and stress their heart...folks playing this game are likely older and sedentary.

I want a potion that will reset your ransack and give you a 25% loot bonus for one hour after you've taken a one hour break.

thx to @Epicsoul for your words of wisdom!

 

[Arkat]

I've essentially stopped playing except for raiding for a couple of hours on Saturday and Sunday afternoons with some folks I've become friendly with. I don't need the aggravation of things like the minuscule chance to get "rare" loot or any reduction in the 33/16/10 chance to get a named item.

Buying re-rolls was something to consider in the past. Now, as someone said above, re-rolls feel like just a scam.

DDO has become a strange game. It seems the only winning move is not to play.

 

[EvanBanning]

It's more that I don't want to speak to something outside of my area of expertise and then misspeak to it or misrepresent it.

Consider getting someone in here who can speak to it. Again this is a make-or-break pain point for a lot of players over whether or not they will continue to give you money.

 

[pirotessa]

I think you may have probably missed one of my prior posts on this, because I feel like I've said this out loud, but yeah, this is something I agree with. I re-joined the team last year, it's been great to be back, but a lot of work has had to be done. One of those specific areas has been in store improvement and pricing. The project here has started with something very basic, but very long and very important: store inventory.

Welcome back! While working on the store / customer sales, can cosmetics be a priority as well? The ability to one preview cosmetics would be huge and start adding some more? I don't think that section has been updated in about 15 years either. Not to compare but look at most even mobile games and "skins" are pumped out and sell like crazy where here we get maybe 2-3 a year. Definitely a big miss on something that makes money pretty easily!

 

[Elminster]

If they continue down the road of MythD-like drop rates then you can reasonably assume the game is heading toward ‘maintenance mode’.

No company in their right mind will continue to burn all their bridges with the playerbase and just keep squeezing until we’re all shrieking from the pain unless this is the final curtain call and they’re trying to get every last penny from the existing population.

 

[Christhemiss]

I think you may have probably missed one of my prior posts on this, because I feel like I've said this out loud, but yeah, this is something I agree with. I re-joined the team last year, it's been great to be back, but a lot of work has had to be done. One of those specific areas has been in store improvement and pricing. The project here has started with something very basic, but very long and very important: store inventory.

You know how stores close down to check all of their items from time to time? I've basically been doing that for both games and, trust me, there are a lot of items. Because this counts not only the current items, but also the historical items too that you don't see. Everything is getting categorized and logged so it's known, easily accessible, and, most importantly, editable as a group. So it's a... honestly intimidating number. But it's almost done (yay) and after that I want to move on to pricing and item structure. That will be a faster process because everything will be known and streamlined by that point.

For the store as a program and interface, that's something that may take a bit longer. The team that will be responsible for making improvements going forward is inheriting the program from another group, so there's learning going on. Once folks feel comfortable making changes, yeah, we'll probably be asking for some larger adjustments. Right now the changes that have occurred are pretty small and mostly unnoticeable by anyone. Things like editing how search works, for example, to slowly improve it.

And to clarify what I mean by "day-to-day" I mean specifically the smaller, rapidly changing conversations that folks have that happen all the time. When a team or a dev decides on something, then yeah, it's something we all know and there are shared meetings where it's talked about as a group. It's more that I don't want to speak to something outside of my area of expertise and then misspeak to it or misrepresent it.

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/celestrata-these-store-items-should-be-removed-or-have-their-price-change.17880/

 

[Celestrata Bloodsong]

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/celestrata-these-store-items-should-be-removed-or-have-their-price-change.17880/

Hon, I have you on bookmark, hahaha.

 

[EvanBanning]

If they continue down the road of MythD-like drop rates then you can reasonably assume the game is heading toward ‘maintenance mode’.

No company in their right mind will continue to burn all their bridges with the playerbase and just keep squeezing until we’re all shrieking from the pain unless this is the final curtain call and they’re trying to get every last penny from the existing population.

And yet we get nothing but silence on this.

 

[Frisson]

Yeah, I can provide some info here, as we're talking about Loot Ransack Reset Potions and that's in my area.

I wouldn't try to use this potion to infer something about the other areas of the game because it's not how we do the development process. My requests for these types of items are a separate track from how the game is balanced. In this specific case, this idea was very separate from drop rate changes. It was ideated at a different time, it had been on the product list for a while, and it felt like something interesting to introduce with the expansion, where we normally put in something like this.

So this isn't about relieving a problem with drop rates, nor is it about changing the drop rates to create this item. That's all separate, and to be honest I don't know what the drop rates are going to be for the new content. Just not involved with that on a day-to-day level.

As to the future of this item, yeah, it's something that we'd like to eventually bring into the store, but it's also something we'd like to introduce slowly to see how it affects said systems, how folks use it and approach it, and work with the community to find what's appropriate. It's why I try to come around here as much as possible - hearing folks opinions and commentary on what's going on is super important. It's also why the item quantity is currently capped.

Depending on how folks feel and how folks use this item, that may change what I'll be suggesting for the potion going forward.

I've mentioned in other posts that yeah, how players use items and services is pretty meaningful to me, and this is one area that I do keep an eye on.

I'll say the same here that I will say to my colleagues any day of the week: More of a certain behavior does not always equal success. This is definitely one of those areas, as increased rerolls could be beneficial in the short term, sure, but it doesn't necessarily improve quality, it doesn't necessarily improve fun, it doesn't necessarily offer meaningful difficulty, etc... There are many other important goals that need to be hit. Revenue should never be the metric that drives development alone.

A few more folks rerolled? That's nice, and very appreciated that folks are willing to support us and the game in that way, but that's not telling me enough information about the game. It's one data point in a suite of data points. This is actually an area we've been diving more into so I can help development not just look at the easy-to-find numbers - we want to better understand how folks play quests and dungeons and use spaces. We want to see what's popular and what's not and understand why. We want to be looking at the wider picture. Actually pretty excited about it, but that's a very separate discussion.



I look at both short and long term trends and take both into account. So when these types of changes happen, and they happen in more cases than just this, it's something we can take a look at and understand. That way, no, we're not just looking at one slice of time or one specific moment and using it to determine something in the future. We're instead identifying "oh, this changed, and we know why it changed, and this is what it means in context of everything else around it."

So the feedback regarding the way Myth Drannor was implemented, is both extensive and explicit. I assume you and your colleagues must have read it all. I would sure hope so anyway!

With that in mind- what else do you reasonably expect us players to infer, when you add items such as these Loot Ransack potions with the next expansion, given the backdrop of the previous one looming over us? That's a PR disaster in the making.

This is only exacerbated by the fact that we still don't have clarity from you- or anyone else at SSG- about whether similar rare loot tables are going to be in this upcoming expansion.

Saying something like "Revenue should never be the metric that drives development alone.", is completely at odds with the reality that we have been subject to in recent times.

So either you and your colleagues are not on the same page... Or: what we are being told isn't sincere.

I'm sure you are a nice lady. And more communication is always appreciated. But this response- and indeed the decision to release such an item- comes across as fairly tone-deaf in a post-Myth Drannor climate.

I fully support each and every player that keeps their coin purse closed, until such time as our concerns are sufficiently addressed.

Have a nice day

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

I think you may have probably missed one of my prior posts on this, because I feel like I've said this out loud, but yeah, this is something I agree with. I re-joined the team last year, it's been great to be back, but a lot of work has had to be done. One of those specific areas has been in store improvement and pricing. The project here has started with something very basic, but very long and very important: store inventory.

You know how stores close down to check all of their items from time to time? I've basically been doing that for both games and, trust me, there are a lot of items. Because this counts not only the current items, but also the historical items too that you don't see. Everything is getting categorized and logged so it's known, easily accessible, and, most importantly, editable as a group. So it's a... honestly intimidating number. But it's almost done (yay) and after that I want to move on to pricing and item structure. That will be a faster process because everything will be known and streamlined by that point.

For the store as a program and interface, that's something that may take a bit longer. The team that will be responsible for making improvements going forward is inheriting the program from another group, so there's learning going on. Once folks feel comfortable making changes, yeah, we'll probably be asking for some larger adjustments. Right now the changes that have occurred are pretty small and mostly unnoticeable by anyone. Things like editing how search works, for example, to slowly improve it.

And to clarify what I mean by "day-to-day" I mean specifically the smaller, rapidly changing conversations that folks have that happen all the time. When a team or a dev decides on something, then yeah, it's something we all know and there are shared meetings where it's talked about as a group. It's more that I don't want to speak to something outside of my area of expertise and then misspeak to it or misrepresent it.

Some of us would like to see DDO make money by selling things that players want such as level 32 augments. Not sure why these are hard to put in the store, but it's a missed opportunity for SSG.

 

[KylerrTheMajty]

I think you may have probably missed one of my prior posts on this, because I feel like I've said this out loud, but yeah, this is something I agree with. I re-joined the team last year, it's been great to be back, but a lot of work has had to be done. One of those specific areas has been in store improvement and pricing. The project here has started with something very basic, but very long and very important: store inventory.

You know how stores close down to check all of their items from time to time? I've basically been doing that for both games and, trust me, there are a lot of items. Because this counts not only the current items, but also the historical items too that you don't see. Everything is getting categorized and logged so it's known, easily accessible, and, most importantly, editable as a group. So it's a... honestly intimidating number. But it's almost done (yay) and after that I want to move on to pricing and item structure. That will be a faster process because everything will be known and streamlined by that point.

For the store as a program and interface, that's something that may take a bit longer. The team that will be responsible for making improvements going forward is inheriting the program from another group, so there's learning going on. Once folks feel comfortable making changes, yeah, we'll probably be asking for some larger adjustments. Right now the changes that have occurred are pretty small and mostly unnoticeable by anyone. Things like editing how search works, for example, to slowly improve it.

And to clarify what I mean by "day-to-day" I mean specifically the smaller, rapidly changing conversations that folks have that happen all the time. When a team or a dev decides on something, then yeah, it's something we all know and there are shared meetings where it's talked about as a group. It's more that I don't want to speak to something outside of my area of expertise and then misspeak to it or misrepresent it.

yep yep

just add more bank storage and shared bank storage

you guys reworked bank's bc they could not have more space and now add them only to coffer's and expansions so for me the pot's will be another cash grab like you do with bank space
sorry if i dont belive

 

[Bobbryan2]

I think you may have probably missed one of my prior posts on this, because I feel like I've said this out loud, but yeah, this is something I agree with. I re-joined the team last year, it's been great to be back, but a lot of work has had to be done. One of those specific areas has been in store improvement and pricing. The project here has started with something very basic, but very long and very important: store inventory.

You know how stores close down to check all of their items from time to time? I've basically been doing that for both games and, trust me, there are a lot of items. Because this counts not only the current items, but also the historical items too that you don't see. Everything is getting categorized and logged so it's known, easily accessible, and, most importantly, editable as a group. So it's a... honestly intimidating number. But it's almost done (yay) and after that I want to move on to pricing and item structure. That will be a faster process because everything will be known and streamlined by that point.

For the store as a program and interface, that's something that may take a bit longer. The team that will be responsible for making improvements going forward is inheriting the program from another group, so there's learning going on. Once folks feel comfortable making changes, yeah, we'll probably be asking for some larger adjustments. Right now the changes that have occurred are pretty small and mostly unnoticeable by anyone. Things like editing how search works, for example, to slowly improve it.

And to clarify what I mean by "day-to-day" I mean specifically the smaller, rapidly changing conversations that folks have that happen all the time. When a team or a dev decides on something, then yeah, it's something we all know and there are shared meetings where it's talked about as a group. It's more that I don't want to speak to something outside of my area of expertise and then misspeak to it or misrepresent it.

I did miss your other post on the subject. I will look into it. Some of this sounds amazing, and I look forward to it.
But I seriously think you could remove 50% of that store and the only thing people noticed would be a performance increase.