What is better enhancement for Wizard?

Jasparius

Well-known member
Shadowdancer T5 for Weird. It's a must.
Shadow Mastery also works wonders to say alive on R8+ or reaper raids. Even more so if you pair it with Master Illusionist.
Shiradi T4.
Primal Avatar T3.

How do you find that many good Shadowdancer points to get to Weird ?
 

Bliv

Well-known member
- Cores (4 points)
- Stealthy (3 points) you do get a very high reflex save with insightful reflexes, you get evasion with Shadowdancer.
- Cover of Darkness (3 points)
- Well of Darkness (3 points)
- Technician (3 points) for the +1 sneak dice
- Dance in the Dark (3 points)
- Nightmare Lance (2 points)
- Lithe (3 points)
- Shadowcaster (2 points)
- Spell Focus (3 points)
- Paranoia (2 points) adds dps to your epic strike, based of sneak dice (I put enough points in Palemaster to use wraith form for the +1 dice and +2 enchantment DC from core)
- Improved Paranoia (1 point)

That's 32 points, all relevant.
 
Last edited:

Bliv

Well-known member
Forgot to mention that once you hit Nightmare Lance with Paranoia, you deal added dmg for 10 seconds, based off your sneak dice, on all your spells.

That's how you burst dps on that build.

Coupled with Shiradi stance, it does decent dmg.

Magic Missile becomes pretty decent all of a sudden, as every missile has a chance to proc Stay Strong, on top of Paranoia.

You're looking to cast anything that has missiles or projectiles (like meteor swarm).
 

Jasparius

Well-known member
Forgot to mention that once you hit Nightmare Lance with Paranoia, you deal added dmg for 10 seconds, based off your sneak dice, on all your spells.

That's how you burst dps on that build.

Coupled with Shiradi stance, it does decent dmg.

Magic Missile becomes pretty decent all of a sudden, as every missile has a chance to proc Stay Strong, on top of Paranoia.

You're looking to cast anything that has missiles or projectiles (like meteor swarm).

Im much more an Acid Well fan as my go to but this sure does sound fun.

Ever thought of posting the build in the Wizard class thread ?
 

Bliv

Well-known member
I've never bothered posting builds. But I might do it for this one, as it's the one I've put the most time to min/max.

I'll see. Most of the important stuff is now in this thread. Except for the feats and gear.

My main is set up as a DCish/dps sorc at the moment. (Btw Amplin, from Den of Vipers, is completely insane.)

Maybe when I go back to my wizard build.
 

vik

Well-known member
I'm curious too...not too many shiradi wizards running around. I'm curious how far into pm you went (for self healz) and your gear loadout. Also, if this build would work for something other than a deep gnome.
 

Tilomere

Well-known member
Assuming a pure 20 simple build, I would DC cast out of inquisitive, with 6 AP in EK for imbue die and some in harper for int to dmg/trance. Then swap gear at red names/raid bosses and pew pew them out.
 
Last edited:

Jasparius

Well-known member
I'm curious too...not too many shiradi wizards running around. I'm curious how far into pm you went (for self healz) and your gear loadout. Also, if this build would work for something other than a deep gnome.

Im also intrigued by imbue dice and spell casters. Have zero clue how they work as Ive never bothered.
 

Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
Max DC is feydark illusionist with all the past lifes, max DC from reaper trees, the right curses, reaper bonuses, etc. It's a total PITA to max out DC with all the RNG in the current game.

I used to play a DC caster when it took longer to beat down trash mobs, but that was long ago. Currently I would only build a DC caster for a specific niche role or static group. DC casters are high investment builds with very situational value.

Is it worth it? That's your call, but all too often I've seen DC casters lead the kill count while being the least useful person in the party. So it's important to be useful in ways other than just instakilling mobs that would evaporate instantly anyhow without a DC caster.

There are some good tips about dps in this thread. I would not dump DPS on any caster build even though it's subpar and the reaper DPS caster penalty in R9-10 is too much. There are so many - maybe even too many places in this game where DPS is the most important thing.
 

Bliv

Well-known member
I'm curious too...not too many shiradi wizards running around. I'm curious how far into pm you went (for self healz) and your gear loadout. Also, if this build would work for something other than a deep gnome.
11 points in PM. I'm just going for wraith form and beacon of enchantment. The other points are to get basic self heals.

Gear setup is Vecna set (Legendary Keeper's Coffin) + Myth Drannor fillers (MD ring as artifact) + Dino quarterstaff.

Deep Gnome is optimal, but this could work with other races.

One thing I intend to implement next time I run the build is to swap to Amplin when I need to dps. Lightning Lash is sick.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vik

Synalon

Choose another soldier
What enhancements are better for deep gnome wizard that wants to emphasize dc-casting: Palemaster T5 or Archmage T5?

PRO:

Palemaster T5 ability Necromatic focus provides +1 DC costing 2 ap.

Archmage T5 has two DC boosts: (i) School Mastery II provides +1 DC to school of choice, costing 2 ap, and (ii) Secondary School Mastery provides +1 DC to additional school, costing 2 ap.

So, seems that Archmage T5 provides more DC boosts, if you have enough action points. Am I missing something?

CON:

Action point cost is an important factor, because I want to use PM capstone. PM capstone requires 41 ap, and Archmage T5s would require 37 ap. This leaves only 2 left over, which means I cannot invest in deep gnome racial tree to get Phantasmal Killer.

However, if I invest in deep gnome racial tree, and do not attempt archmage T5, I can them invest in deep gnome to get PK, +3 illusion dc, and +2 intelligence from deep gnome.

Also, there is a trade off between Necrotic Blast (Palemaster T5) versus Arcane Blast (Archmage T5). I like necrotic blast alot, but haven't used arcane blast so not sure if it is as powerful. Also, Arcane Blast uses force spell power, which would be an additional thing to equip.

Would appreciate any thoughts.
For DC casting, Pale Master is much easier to work. The advice you have received in the rest of the thread is good, but it describes an unconventional way to build a DC Wizard. Pale Master gets more DCs overall in the tree; you can get +2 necro and +2 enchantment in the cores, along with the other DC boosts you list. PM also provides (a lot) more defence. And as you note, getting the PM capstone with Archmage T5s is difficult on action points - ignoring Archmage gets you really everything you want from PM and Deep Gnome, along with any other tree you want to dip into.

I would advise going PM for anyone trying Wiz DC casting unless they're very experienced with the class. You'll be dipping into PM at least somewhat anyway, whereas Archmage can be basically ignored.
 

Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
For DC casting, Pale Master is much easier to work. The advice you have received in the rest of the thread is good, but it describes an unconventional way to build a DC Wizard. Pale Master gets more DCs overall in the tree; you can get +2 necro and +2 enchantment in the cores, along with the other DC boosts you list. PM also provides (a lot) more defence. And as you note, getting the PM capstone with Archmage T5s is difficult on action points - ignoring Archmage gets you really everything you want from PM and Deep Gnome, along with any other tree you want to dip into.

I would advise going PM for anyone trying Wiz DC casting unless they're very experienced with the class. You'll be dipping into PM at least somewhat anyway, whereas Archmage can be basically ignored.

If someone is going T5/capstone in one tree and tier 4 in the other:

Palemaster: You get 4 int (2 universal DC) from the capstone and 1 necro DC from tier 5
Feydark Illusionists: You get 2 int (1 universal DC) and 2 illusion DC from the capstone and 3 illusion DC from tier 5

So if you just care about necro Palemaster nets you +2 necro dc and + 1 enchantment DC vs. Feydark Illusionist. Feydark Illusionist nets +4 illusion DC which some prefer due to the double save and the other benefits in feydark illusionist.

For survivability alot of pms go PM + eldritch knight esp for soloing. It's probably the most common build I see which might be what you mean by conventional.

Nothing is wrong with any of these choices. Which is better depends on many factors and the truth is all variations are subpar compared to the full spectrum of builds - unless you are building for a very specific niche or static group.
 

Bliv

Well-known member
For DC casting, Pale Master is much easier to work. The advice you have received in the rest of the thread is good, but it describes an unconventional way to build a DC Wizard. Pale Master gets more DCs overall in the tree
Besides what Sarlona already mentioned, you are forgetting three things:
- Deep Gnome gives you +3 illusion DC.
- Deep Gnome iconic past lives give you another +3.
- T4 Archmage gives you +1 (you could also get that as a necromancer, but almost no one goes that route. It makes more sense as an illusionist for the extra PK SLA).

That's a net +7, on top of the +4 Sarlona pointed out.

Illusion DC > Necro DC, by a mile.

I'll give you one thing - this is an unconventional way to build a wizard. Anyone learning the class would have a much easier time with PM.
 

Svirfneblin

Well-known member
You definately want that deep gnome PK and greater color spray so lean into Pale Master.

Deep Gnome Iconic cosmetics are cool too!
 

Bossman

Well-known member
A lot to digest here. I am leaning towards 41 in PM, 17 in deep gnome racial. That leaves 22 for either archmage or feydark illusionist.

Main reason for archmage is to get extra PK sla. Will also pick up +1 int, +3 spell pen, and spell critical line, and also +22 spell power, and additional spell points.

Feydark illusionist tree gets me +3 intelligence, +3 spell pen, and spell points and +3 saving throws.

Most likely archmage will win out for the extra pk. Maybe re-spec to experiment.

Thank you for all the input!
 

Bjond

Well-known member
Well, T5 PM has a fun AE that always does damage. AM's T5 will be evaded A LOT for zero damage unless you stick mass-hold first or have crazy high evocation.
Main reason for archmage is to get extra PK sla.
I did this with my PM Gnome (extra PK from AM). Turned out I really didn't need 3xPK, barely used the extra, and ended up swapping it out in a subsequent build.
 

Jasparius

Well-known member
Well, T5 PM has a fun AE that always does damage. AM's T5 will be evaded A LOT for zero damage unless you stick mass-hold first or have crazy high evocation.

I did this with my PM Gnome (extra PK from AM). Turned out I really didn't need 3xPK, barely used the extra, and ended up swapping it out in a subsequent build.

Regular mobs these days all seem to have Deathblock, so I wonder if stacking your hotbar with individual insta-kill spells is the right way to go as well.
 

Mindos

CHAOTIC EVIL
Regular mobs these days all seem to have Deathblock, so I wonder if stacking your hotbar with individual insta-kill spells is the right way to go as well.
Can you go through the game casting globe of invulnerability and removing it from them? (I don't even know, or if that's the right spell, etc)
 
Top