What makes an item worth being "rare loot"?

[Nickodeamous]

MD broke the definition of rare when it made normal progression loot rare. Its all about $$$ now.

Rare loot should be better, period. If a non rare gives +14 str. A rare should be +16. At least if its +2 more you actually get benefit of +1 to hit and Damage and DCs, etc.

Rare loot should be usable in your gearset. Not create massive changes in it to fit. Like, just make it a better version of the non rare. (My opinion only). Ymmv.

Rare loot should be attainable (within reason) Whats the point if its so rare that you farm it endlessly, only to have a new expansion come out and make it obsolete.

Rare loot should be in par with raid loot. If it only takes 1250 runes to buy raid loot, then rare loot should take no longer to farm (attain) than raid loot. Figure out a way to make this feasible.

Something like this:

Rare raid loot > raid loot = rare quest loot > quest loot.

Nic

 

[Rage]

Nobody goes psychotic because of jibbers because it’s not mandatory for a certain build or is essential for anything else.

It also doesn’t make you powerful consistently. It’s niche.

The problem with modern loot nowadays (MD and Lamordia) is it inherently increases player power so people get this unhealthy mental desire for it which ultimately leads to addiction.

Which is the end goal from a business standpoint.

 

[l_remmie]

Yeah, Haunted Halls items were also like that with unique or unusual affixes.

They weren't even "rare" by the MD loot table standards, but they were interesting.

The upgrade part is (in this case) also good game design.

You can force content engagement with farm time for a rare item. This creates a lottery effect were a few people get lucky, more people get average result and some people get really annoyed for never seeing their hard work rewarded.
The lucky people wil forget they got lucky in a day, the annoyed people will remember for years.
OR
You can make the basic item version fairly available, in this case also tradable, and force the content engagement time with farming ingredients for the upgrade. This way everybody will feel content with that they acquire what they work for. No lottery highs but also no 'quit moments' for disillusioned gamers.

Ideally you want a few lottery luck mechanics in the game. But it's an extremely nuanced process.

 

[l_remmie]

Nobody goes psychotic because of jibbers because it’s not mandatory for a certain build or is essential for anything else.

It also doesn’t make you powerful consistently. It’s niche.

The problem with modern loot nowadays (MD and Lamordia) is it inherently increases player power so people get this unhealthy mental desire for it which ultimately leads to addiction.

Which is the end goal from a business standpoint.

Player engagement and return factor is a fair goal. It's basically customer satisfaction.
But we live in endgame capitalism so shareholders will settle for nothing less than addiction.

 

[kmoustakas]

Player engagement and return factor is a fair goal. It's basically customer satisfaction.
But we live in endgame capitalism so shareholders will settle for nothing less than addiction.

Corporations ruin hobbies

 

[Igognito]

I personally don't mine items. I tried it a bit with Jibbers but I found out I don't enjoy the game that way. I like to so varied content and I don't care much for having the best equipment.
I would actually be very happy to have no equipment . <- project in progress.

But to share my 5 cents, I believe that named item drop chance should decrease with the level of your toon and possibly even with the # of past lives.

You should get max chance running the quest at level (or lower) and then maybe every 5/10 PLs you get a -1%

 

[Igognito]

And I do want to point out, that no equipment should be necessary for a toon to be viable. That is bad design. The game should be viable with a) random loot, b) guaranteed rewards and c) with crafted (under any system) items only.
Having a raid item or a rare item, should be special!
It should be an amazing feeling of getting it and not business as usual.
So to answer how these items should be:
Jibbers
Quiver of alacrity
Harper pin
Voice of the master
Craftable trinket with slot

And similar unique items that you need to work to get.

Cheers

 

[PaleFox]

And I do want to point out, that no equipment should be necessary for a toon to be viable. That is bad design. The game should be viable with a) random loot, b) guaranteed rewards and c) with crafted (under any system) items only.


Cheers

Agreed. Thing is, at the moment a lot of people are running level 38 quests on reaper, some of those super min maxers on R10.
That is 4 levels to early.

The rare mechanic I like is ioun stones.


I also like that the current system opens up a lot of LFMs from people looking one specific item from a quest.
I would not be able to obtain any decent gear without those, well not for a long time as I usually just run stuf once and then tr.

 

[Bricks]

I personally don't mine items. I tried it a bit with Jibbers but I found out I don't enjoy the game that way. I like to so varied content and I don't care much for having the best equipment.
I would actually be very happy to have no equipment . <- project in progress.

But to share my 5 cents, I believe that named item drop chance should decrease with the level of your toon and possibly even with the # of past lives.

You should get max chance running the quest at level (or lower) and then maybe every 5/10 PLs you get a -1%

You think # of past lives should reduce the players chance of attaining equipment? That's a bit left field or am I misunderstanding you

 

[Xgya]

About that title, what makes an item worth being rare loot is a mix of things it is and a mix of things it is not.

Here's my two-item list of things that a rare item should be:
- Anything that allows something players could already do, but faster, is a decent chase item. This is especially true for non-combat stuff.
A clickie with Teleport usable at level 1 would count.
A cosmetic armor that boosts run speed out of combat by 10%.

-Anything that copies shop items in a more limited way, or copies items that aren't really bought other than for cheap laughs.
A one-person trip to the airship.
A rechargeable Bracelet of Friends.
A perpetual Pointing Hand of Bigby.

And here's the singular item on the big no-no list.
- Anything that enables or otherwise multiplies the power of a build in any meaningful way.
This includes many best-in-slot items, but also any item that would just turn an otherwise-unusable build into a working one. For example, you if you try to "fix" Warlocks as a whole by making items that suddenly make Eldritch Blasting the new Flavor-Of-The-Month, you can't make those items hard to get... and then balance the game around Warlocks having them.

 

[Igognito]

You think # of past lives should reduce the players chance of attaining equipment? That's a bit left field or am I misunderstanding you

Yes, while I admit it is slightly problematic to have this penalty (as it would apply to content you didn't own previously), the reasoning is that every few life the toon would be doing higher reaper. Thus the penalty should be negated by the reaper bonus.

We have 10 reaper skulls. Thus 100PL worth of penalty negated/I would probably cap it there.

So if the named drop chance is 30% at elite on level of the quest +1% per R. I would reduce a 1% for each extra level you have. And reduce by 1% for each 10PLs (Obviously total min chance 1%)

Then the items for treasure that modify the level chest are actually helping you by allowing less penalty.
You practically would not return to chests at cap to prepare your next build.
SSG would make more money by people needing to use their discovery pot on level and not when on cap and planned their next 10 runs.

As I pointed out earlier, the game should not require any rate loot. We should be able to play the full content with "accessible" equipment and crafted items.

 

[l_remmie]

Punishing people for naturally playing the game is an absolutely awful idea. Even with neglectible amounts. People truly hate that.

Instead you need to provide things to do and to strive for for the enfrenchised players.
Mythic and reaper bonusses for example.
Reaper difficulty and rare loot are all apart of that.

 

[woq]

Unique benefits that have a perk that transcends time. Convenience, Jibbers, spell absorption in a slot that hasn't had spell absorption before, the like - something that isn't invalidated by the next patch.

Lower than usual level requirement for the power granted / unique clickie / unique bonus(es) (actually unique...) and so forth. I wouldn't mind more loot akin to Epic Quiver: it drops in a raid that otherwise drops higher level req stuff, but this one thing is lvl 20 - or heroic quiver that has no level requirement at all. That's worthy of being rare, because it will apply for any lives from there onwards and isn't mandatory.

Following a spreadsheet for power granted blindly makes it boring and stale. If it's rare, then it better be special to be worthy of being rare - and unrestrained by the spreadsheet. It can be a horizontal upgrade - for example, permanent tenser. You can use a scroll, or you can use this item that applies a CL X Tensers buff on you when you use an action boost.

Sky is the limit, but unfortunately there are other limits, such as time available to spend on itemization - and there are limits to imagination and passion to the craft.

 

[Lazuli]

MD broke the definition of rare when it made normal progression loot rare. Its all about $$$ now.

yes. A bad move. They may lose many customers.

Rare loot should be better, period. If a non rare gives +14 str. A rare should be +16. At least if its +2 more you actually get benefit of +1 to hit and Damage and DCs, etc.

No. Rare loot like that quickly becomes obsolete. Rare loot should be special, having effects not normally found. Jibbers are a good example.

Rare loot should be usable in your gearset. Not create massive changes in it to fit. Like, just make it a better version of the non rare. (My opinion only). Ymmv.

And we have these type of loot. It's called mythic, reaper, cursed items... Triple rarity. That's enough. The developers don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Rare loot should be attainable (within reason) Whats the point if its so rare that you farm it endlessly, only to have a new expansion come out and make it obsolete.

There's no point. It's absurd. It's a bad model. A hard-to-obtain item should resist obsolescence.

What's more, there are many rare items that aren't even better than normal items. Some are better, but not enough to resist obsolescence.

Rare loot should be in par with raid loot. If it only takes 1250 runes to buy raid loot, then rare loot should take no longer to farm (attain) than raid loot. Figure out a way to make this feasible.

yes. Almost all the packs have an ingredient system. You could buy rare items with that system (MD would need to introduce a mat, I suppose), as they've actually done with sands, resulting in a resounding success.

Something like this:

Rare raid loot > raid loot = rare quest loot > quest loot.

Nic

Yes en principle, but not to rare raid loot. I think the current raid rare items don't deserve the rare treatment; they're not good enough for it.

If I look at the rare fey and IoD items that cost double runes, I can't understand why they have to cost double. They're not better than normal raid loot; they just have different stats. Woe to you if you need those stats instead of the others. A good example of this is the Summer and Winter Solstice staves. The first one isn't rare, and the second is, and they're identical. The only difference is that they're for different classes (fire/light vs. negative/force) and Leg Affirmation vs. Leg Conc Opp, but they're identical. Same power and number of enchantments, same spellpower, same crit. Identical. But one costs twice as many runes for no reason. If you're a wizard, you're screwed just because the devs decided to screw you over.

Please, no. No more rare raid loot. They don't know how to design it.

 

[Nickodeamous]

yes. A bad move. They may lose many customers.

100%. I have cut my playtime down significantly. I have zero desire to buy the new pack

No. Rare loot like that quickly becomes obsolete. Rare loot should be special, having effects not normally found. Jibbers are a good example.

I think my point was that I personally will not wast my time unless the "rare" loot is better in some way. Calling something rare that is really just normal progression is not rare imo. (for the record, i have 1 piece of rare equipment, and I got lucky...i will never farm for normal progression so called rare loot)

And we have these type of loot. It's called mythic, reaper, cursed items... Triple rarity. That's enough. The developers don't need to reinvent the wheel.

100%. do away with rare loot, and I may play more. I have also stopped giving SSG money. This is predatory at this point.

There's no point. It's absurd. It's a bad model. A hard-to-obtain item should resist obsolescence.

100% (see jibber...never obsolete)

What's more, there are many rare items that aren't even better than normal items. Some are better, but not enough to resist obsolescence.

Totally.

yes. Almost all the packs have an ingredient system. You could buy rare items with that system (MD would need to introduce a mat, I suppose), as they've actually done with sands, resulting in a resounding success.

Agree 100%

Yes en principle, but not to rare raid loot. I think the current raid rare items don't deserve the rare treatment; they're not good enough for it.

yeah, i hear ya. I would just have SSG dump rare loot in general. It hardly worth it in the grand scheme of things. Its a money maker and a chase for those that need that extra something. (whatever that may be). Its not for me.

 

[Elves United]

I object to rare named loot that is substantially more powerful than non-rare named loot.
Rare named loot should be cool to get but not so good that players feel the need to farm for it.

 

[Gimp]

They could always go back to full on RNG loot...then you would really have something to complain about not getting an item the way you need. Seems many forget how painfull it was back then when you had to look at every single piece of loot and try to determine if it was better / worse than what you had. I do not miss the days of the best loot in the game was totally random.

 

[Zarrenn]

Did getting it make you feel special? Per the producer that's what justifies rare loot.

 

[kmoustakas]

Did getting it make you feel special? Per the producer that's what justifies rare loot.

I've gotten two heroic fail dranor rare armors and I have started two 'why the heck is this rare' topics I am not even using them, sharn sets are the best armors in heroic and for low epics too.

(now that 15% hp cloak, I can see that being rare! But no chance I'm ever getting that, obviously)

 

[Zarrenn]

I've gotten two heroic fail dranor rare armors and I have started two 'why the heck is this rare' topics I am not even using them, sharn sets are the best armors in heroic and for low epics too.

Seems like the garbage system is not achieving its stated objective, then.