What makes an item worth being "rare loot"?

[droid327]

Rare loot should be

- normal loot with a bonus property, but always have a "regular" version to use in the meantime

- a cool cosmetic

- a clicky

- an accessory/QoL item like QoA or a 100% returning bolt

It should never be something that you have to change your gear Tetris for, nor something that defines your build

I'd extend that same logic to raid items too. There really should be some non-raid endgame non physical weapons like the Dryad ones, and a non raid endgame sun blade, just so you can build monks and swashes that don't need to raid for them first, and a way to add set bonuses to non raid iod weapons to keep the Tetris the same

 

[Xgya]

Rare loot should be

- normal loot with a bonus property, but always have a "regular" version to use in the meantime

To be clear, the "bonus property" should be something MINOR.
It shouldn't outright change the build.
But it should still feel nice to find.
That Reaper/Mythic item you just got? That counts. That makes you actually feel good for finding it, without making you feel like the game's forcing you to look for the elusive thing.

I feel like the Deck of Things mechanic also fits, but because it actively punishes you for trying your luck, you end up feeling bad about it a lot of the time.

 

[droid327]

To be clear, the "bonus property" should be something MINOR.
It shouldn't outright change the build.
But it should still feel nice to find.

Yes, that's why I had the caveat about "not being build-defining" or changing the Tetris

Something like the 15% Legendary HP cloak is a good example of a rare-item affix that is both build-defining (because it replaces Titan's Blood) and Tetris-defining (because there's no non-rare version of it, so if you get it then everything else gets rekajiggered to fit it)

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

They could always go back to full on RNG loot...then you would really have something to complain about not getting an item the way you need. Seems many forget how painfull it was back then when you had to look at every single piece of loot and try to determine if it was better / worse than what you had. I do not miss the days of the best loot in the game was totally random.

This a false choice fallacy. You make it sound like loot can only be either random junk or rare abusive systems. If you read the thread you would see that there are many other systems, most of which are better than those two false choices.

 

[PaleFox]

I object to rare named loot that is substantially more powerful than non-rare named loot.
Rare named loot should be cool to get but not so good that players feel the need to farm for it.

Agreed, yet there is tons of stuff in game that players feel a real need for having:
1) Jibbers
2) Quiver of Alacrity
3) Spell Absorption items (Ioun Stone)
4) Lotts of boost clickies and potions

 

[Bjond]

Agreed, yet there is tons of stuff in game that players feel a real need for having:
1) Jibbers
2) Quiver of Alacrity
3) Spell Absorption items (Ioun Stone)
4) Lotts of boost clickies and potions

Rare items should be a delight when found, not a door slammed in your face.

Jibbers and Quiver have alternatives and fulfill the natural utility a rare item should have: useful from L1 on all builds, not required, no power creep. They're nice enough that I made some effort every life and eventually got them, but not so nice that hard-farm was necessary.

Spell absorption is unfortunately mandatory for many encounters and thus needs to be non-rare. Any feature that is required ends up being a build-tetris roadblock when made rare. Solar fortification bypass is a prime example of how rarity kills the entire lunar/solar slot system for physical dps. Haven't tried to make a sun/moon gearset for a caster, but I would not be surprised to find multiple rare items blocking that, too.

 

[DBZ]

Spell absorbtion is not mandatory period it is a nice crutch i'll say that

 

[PaleFox]

Rare items should be a delight when found, not a door slammed in your face.

Well, at least the door opened up, there are still players out there that never got the luck of finding a Jibbers.

Jibbers and Quiver have alternatives and fulfill the natural utility a rare item should have: useful from L1 on all builds, not required, no power creep. They're nice enough that I made some effort every life and eventually got them, but not so nice that hard-farm was necessary.

Jibbers is the only item that can be used to fallback on when raiding and things go TPK.
There isn't anything in game that gives 30% striding at level one, the first item that does so is at level 13.
Even the Expeditious Retreat clickies just go to 25%.

Spell absorption is unfortunately mandatory for many encounters and thus needs to be non-rare. Any feature that is required ends up being a build-tetris roadblock when made rare. Solar fortification bypass is a prime example of how rarity kills the entire lunar/solar slot system for physical dps. Haven't tried to make a sun/moon gearset for a caster, but I would not be surprised to find multiple rare items blocking that, too.

I'm still in the progress of figuring this out. I also don't want to commit to hard to a build.

Spell absorbtion is not mandatory period it is a nice crutch i'll say that

Hence, why I said "feel", there is no need to play the game either. Yet people do.

 

[kmoustakas]

Well, at least the door opened up, there are still players out there that never got the luck of finding a Jibbers.

Jibbers is the only item that can be used to fallback on when raiding and things go TPK.
There isn't anything in game that gives 30% striding at level one, the first item that does so is at level 13.
Even the Expeditious Retreat clickies just go to 25%.

I'm still in the progress of figuring this out. I also don't want to commit to hard to a build.

Hence, why I said "feel", there is no need to play the game either. Yet people do.

3xScoundrel past lives fix your 'striding' way faster than actually getting a quiver. Like, 1000x faster than getting a quiver. Also, augment of snowpeaks gives 30% striding at level 8. So, no.

 

[norriskwondo]

SSG making it impossible to get, and that's about it.

 

[Qrvar]

Quiver of Alacrity isn't particularly rare, though, provided you can run Abbot.

Alas, they've killed that raid by giving its loot away so now all vets have no reason to run it, while newbies have no way to get it.

 

[Bjond]

Quiver of Alacrity isn't particularly rare, though, provided you can run Abbot.

Alas, they've killed that raid by giving its loot away so now all vets have no reason to run it, while newbies have no way to get it.

I helped a guildie on his 3rd round. IIRC, we did 20 runs back to back. Me and another got second quivers as a quest reward. The guy we were helping? No quiver drops and non on reward for him either; 60 runs, no drops, and none in final for him.

At least the runs are ridiculously fast.

 

[Qrvar]

I helped a guildie on his 3rd round. IIRC, we did 20 runs back to back. Me and another got second quivers as a quest reward. The guy we were helping? No quiver drops and non on reward for him either; 60 runs, no drops, and none in final for him.

At least the runs are ridiculously fast.

For some reason I assumed that the raid rune mechanic applied to all raids. It doesn't apply to older raids, so that makes it a pain, still.

Also according to the wiki, they reduced the drop rates for that raid for some reason, which just amplifies my point: they gave it to long-time players for free, and screwed the newer players.

 

[Lazuli]

Heroic raids were never updated to the rune mechanic, unfortunately.

From what the devs have said, they don't like heroic raids. That might explain it.

Now, the main obstacle preventing this raid from being played is the flag. Very few people bother to make that flag every time; it's quite tedious. If the sigil had been for the raid flag, as requested, more people would join the LFMs in this raid.

I would do it, for fun, but I don't usually bother making the raid flag, so when I see an LFM, I can't join and help.

 

[kmoustakas]

Heroic raids were never updated to the rune mechanic, unfortunately.

From what the devs have said, they don't like heroic raids. That might explain it.

Now, the main obstacle preventing this raid from being played is the flag. Very few people bother to make that flag every time; it's quite tedious. If the sigil had been for the raid flag, as requested, more people would join the LFMs in this raid.

I would do it, for fun, but I don't usually bother making the raid flag, so when I see an LFM, I can't join and help.

In fairness, we treat heroic raids as quests now. Not rare to see chrono and TS soloed and von5-6 three manned with pets

 

[Qrvar]

Heroic raids were never updated to the rune mechanic, unfortunately.

From what the devs have said, they don't like heroic raids. That might explain it.

Now, the main obstacle preventing this raid from being played is the flag. Very few people bother to make that flag every time; it's quite tedious. If the sigil had been for the raid flag, as requested, more people would join the LFMs in this raid.

I would do it, for fun, but I don't usually bother making the raid flag, so when I see an LFM, I can't join and help.

I run Litany R1 / E / H / N almost every life because it's great and fairly fast XP. Too bad I don't remember much about actually running the raid, so I can no longer lead it if I join a PUG.

 

[kmoustakas]

I run Litany R1 / E / H / N almost every life because it's great and fairly fast XP. Too bad I don't remember much about actually running the raid, so I can no longer lead it if I join a PUG.

It's actually laughably easy now and can be two manned. But the drop rates/20th completion problems are still there.

Also, litany is such an amazing quest. I was so upset there was no epic litany version but the more the years go by the more I think it was a blessing in disguise. The chances epic litany would be a corrupt-a-wish worse than legoscope are 100%

 

[Lazuli]

I run Litany R1 / E / H / N almost every life because it's great and fairly fast XP. Too bad I don't remember much about actually running the raid, so I can no longer lead it if I join a PUG.

You run litany, but you do the raid flag or stop when you get the xp? Most people finish the quest, get the fast xp, but don't bother to finish the flag.

 

[kmoustakas]

You run litany, but you do the raid flag or stop when you get the xp? Most people finish the quest, get the fast xp, but don't bother to finish the flag.

r1 is vampires, normal is doomsphere, hard is mentau because that lever part is annoying and elite is cinderspawn. So many champ chests on vampire!

 

[Qrvar]

You run litany, but you do the raid flag or stop when you get the xp? Most people finish the quest, get the fast xp, but don't bother to finish the flag.

I do the flag because it doesn't take a whole lot of extra time, and is a fun quest IMO.