What's the best way to make arcane casters relevant at end game again?

[Ethril]

Yeah, make the D&D spell feat Twin Spell a reality. This may resolve some of the caster's DPS concerns.

Also, make the spell (3rd level transmutation) Fly work for legendary, self-only. The spell Fly is iconic D&D spell, which any level 5 arcane spell caster can cast. Wait... make the up time depends on caster level and based on number of arcane lore. Make it not available for bards, artificers, alchemists.

That way, we can make stealth B-2 bombers (air support) in reality in DDO like in modern military. We don't see tanks or land-based military in real life launching a massive damage compared to bombers, why would we see it in fantasy? We only see land-based units to occupy.

In DDO, we have dragons, harpies, griffons and flying creatures that do not fly, we have goddess deities that can be engaged by melees, which is crazy.

I mean, that was my strategy in the later Might and Magic games. Have the party fly and lob AOEs at groups of mobs. Its unsurprisingly really effective.

I think it would either introduce mechanics issues in DDO, not be that useful (sewer quests), or be gam breaking depending on the quest.

 

[Tyrande]

I mean, that was my strategy in the later Might and Magic games. Have the party fly and lob AOEs at groups of mobs. Its unsurprisingly really effective.

I think it would either introduce mechanics issues in DDO, not be that useful (sewer quests), or be gam breaking depending on the quest.

Sure, if the devs make new raids that the group has to fight dragons or flying monsters in flight or on the clouds.

Melee players would be asking for Fly buffs like they had asked for haste in Shroud raids. Also, Fly needs to be kept up.
However, do raid leaders need more than 1 arcane caster in the raid if they're only useful for Fly LOL?

When Fly ran out the PC fall onto the ground and crashing if without FF causing huge damage. But it's probably no damage to tabaxis and monks.

 

[LurkingVeteran]

I...did not have that perception. The DoTs seemed popular to me on release. And I had them always memorised for a long long time.

Certainly they would require some tweaking, like a shorter cool down, as you say, and beefed up damage dice. Being useful for bosses is the point - boss dps is an area in which arcanes are presently lacking.

What do you mean popular? They were used by everyone because that was the only option casters had back then for spell point efficiency in long fights. This was back when sp pools were much smaller, caster damage was even worse, and before the first spell pass that reduced the cost of most dps spells. I'm pretty sure casters would rather have used the full diversity of their spell book against bosses, if they could without going oom in 60 seconds.

 

[torkz]

For all the folks out there who are still having problems understanding the issue, let's do a thought experiment.

Let's imagine you and a friend want to run a fairly challenging raid ...say R3 Vipers...you have a solid tank, your buddy has a solid healer...you want to take the first 10 pugs.

Scenario 1: 9 Barbarians and a melee Paladin. You think..."this might work"

Scenario 2: 10 Inquisitive (class is irrelevant). You think... "Should be easy"

Scenario 3: 5 Sorcerer, 4 caster Wizards, and a random Warlock. You think... "I wonder what I can find on Netflix?"

 

[torkz]

Having written the above hypothetical, I'm wondering if 12 brave, foolhardy, but skilled players will run the 5 Sorcerer, 4 wiz, 1 warlock case just to prove it can be done, haha!

 

[Teh_Troll]

If the stupidity of some of these replies could be converted into electricity it would end our reliance on fossil fuels.

 

[Neo]

You misunderstand. Those LFMs are not because ranged does more damage. It's because high skull raid design has extreme prejudice against melee. Being a melee in just about every high skull raid is miserable. It comes down to "don't get hit or you instantly die". And bosses have unfriendly melee mechanics like a dragon flipping, a marilith or hydra tail swipe, orthons cleaving, Rudus obliterating anyone in range (good luck jumping with lag), etc.

This thread has completely devolved into people that haven't stepped foot inside of a modern r10 raid arguing with people that have. Range DPS is only better in low skull raiding because you can't die unless you turn on auto attack and go afk. And even then there is a chance you come back to a completed raid and you are still full health. Some people just prefer to close their eyes and press 2 buttons than worry about their positioning and avoiding damage with movement outside of S key.

If you've never explored the tanky DC Sorc (T5 Falconry), then I recommend giving it a try. Instakill a pile of mobs, and the ones you can't you tank. Having that combined roll does make them desirable.

I remember when I start playing this build and everyone thought it was troll xdd. Its not super common knowledge teth and I never really talked about it too much.

 

[Tyrande]

[...]

I remember when I start playing this build and everyone thought it was troll xdd. Its not super common knowledge teth and I never really talked about it too much.

Be very careful about this build based on Wisdom, which is the primarily the main stat for Clerics, some Favored Souls and Monks, i.e. not Sorcs. If the IK spells work with wisdom, it might be bugged; and don't be surprised if one day this gets fixed and broke the build. Why not just build this build with Clerics or Apostate when that PC can also heal and tank better LOL?

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Gee, do they really? I must have been sleeping these past years running them (even I can't pike that good!). Wow, thanks for pointing that out!

R10 quests are doable on any play style with a decent group. And if it's R10 solo that is the issue, well zero sympathy there I'm afraid.

And what has that got to do with high R raids which is what folks are also complaining about, in terms of boss beating, and which very few play, even, gosh, melee (and which, incidentally, was the point of my post on the subject, in case you roll a 1 on comprehension again)?

TLDR: How does pointing out folks run R10 quests have anything to do with forming a reply to my post?

Oh, I never conversed with you, didn’t realize you were an ass. Ignoring and moving on. Good emojis bro

 

[Fizban]

Melees do have more effective CC: see DL (Dragon Lords). That's why arcane caster does not a raid spot or role in those raids.

To clarify my main character is a Wizard Arcane Human Caster that has high DCs (110 +) and does 40k + lightning and 10k or so force damage. This is not on the level of a high-end melee DPS'ers doing plus 100k on critical hits. I do run raids on R10 and am excepted as a Wizard for kills, crowd control and supportive damage.

 

[Neo]

Be very careful about this build based on Wisdom, which is the primarily the main stat for Clerics, some Favored Souls and Monks, i.e. not Sorcs. If the IK spells work with wisdom, it might be bugged; and don't be surprised if one day this gets fixed and broke the build. Why not just build this build with Clerics or Apostate when that PC can also heal and tank better LOL?

You are right FOD DC gets increased by CHA and WIS and they stack. It only take affect when wisdom and cha are both above 69 though. Maybe one day they will fix. You should try it, its pretty strong.

 

[Necrodancer]

If the stupidity of some of these replies could be converted into electricity it would end our reliance on fossil fuels.

More than that, it would actually put SSG on the podium of the S&P 500.

I understand not everyone playing at same difficulty and everyone having a favored playstyle or something but some people visions are so beyond and utterly insane your habit of playing drunk make you look like a good role model in comparison. Hell, I'm starting thinking I should seek some form of moral and mental dampening only to read this place.

Just for this once, maybe Cordovan should get a pay raise, I read this forum and I react rolling my eyes 90% of the time.

 

[Anurakh]

To clarify my main character is a Wizard Arcane Human Caster that has high DCs (110 +) and does 40k + lightning and 10k or so force damage. This is not on the level of a high-end melee DPS'ers doing plus 100k on critical hits. I do run raids on R10 and am excepted as a Wizard for kills, crowd control and supportive damage.

It's cute that you think 110 DC is a very high DC.

And you have no idea how much damage weapon users do these days. A wizard's DPS is trash compared to both melee and ranged.

And I've played with your wizard. No, Fizban, you don't have a good dps, not even for a wizard, and you don't have a high DC.

 

[Teh_Troll]

It's cute that you think 110 DC is a very high DC.

And you have no idea how much damage weapon users do these days. A wizard's DPS is trash compared to both melee and ranged.

And I've played with your wizard. No, Fizban, you don't have a good dps, not even for a wizard, and you don't have a high DC.

Damn . . . somebody check his pulse.

 

[Lotoc]

Be very careful about this build based on Wisdom, which is the primarily the main stat for Clerics, some Favored Souls and Monks, i.e. not Sorcs. If the IK spells work with wisdom, it might be bugged; and don't be surprised if one day this gets fixed and broke the build. Why not just build this build with Clerics or Apostate when that PC can also heal and tank better LOL?

It's not wisdom based - it just has 25% comp HP, Mark the Prey (no save damage boost to a single target) and a helpless damage boost meanwhile none of the sorc trees really do anything for your DC casting so you lose very little going deep falconry.

 

[Synalon]

It's cute that you think 110 DC is a very high DC.

And you have no idea how much damage weapon users do these days. A wizard's DPS is trash compared to both melee and ranged.

And I've played with your wizard. No, Fizban, you don't have a good dps, not even for a wizard, and you don't have a high DC.

Savage

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Oh, I never conversed with you, didn’t realize you were an ass. Ignoring and moving on. Good emojis bro

Thanks sis, you're funny. But not in the way you'd like to think. Keep up the aggressive drivel. It's highly entertaining.

 

[AlimonyJFMSU]

Give them guns.

 

[Tyrande]

It's not wisdom based - it just has 25% comp HP, Mark the Prey (no save damage boost to a single target) and a helpless damage boost meanwhile none of the sorc trees really do anything for your DC casting so you lose very little going deep falconry.

spending 33 APs just for +25% comp HP, 5% quality HP and Mark the Prey? No thanks. (so 30% more HP tops)

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Weapon users aren't the problem in raids, neither melee nor ranged. It's the raid design that's failing. And frankly, there is still more advantage for melees than for casters in raids.

Weapon users aren't the problem in R10 quests either, but rather the difference in effectiveness between weapon users and casters. So, either nerf all weapon users, or un-nerf casters. Simple.

Over simple.

Not all weapon users are the same, and there is a very clear line between melee and ranged. But who knows, that's how the Devs roll when it comes to nerfs after all. We've had threads like this for over a year now though without anything new bye way of argument, just the same pros and cons on both sides repeated to fade every few weeks. So I'm not really surprised nothing has changed.