Whats the currently OP builds?

[Hireling]

The only reason raids ever fail is a lack of DPS. Inserting random damage mechanics (skulls, dots) forces higher HPs (can't DPS when you're dead), and as you state, by inserting red names since red-named DPS is usually where most players struggle.

Well back in 2008 (Maybe 2007) we failed the Reaver Raid because TOO MUCH DPS!
We didn't know what we were doing.
Best part...after we failed we re-entered and killed him again because No one read the message and just figured that we didn't kill him fast enough.

 

[songswrath]

Helpless.

Time stop.

it happens.

Exactly people act like the super high crt are normal. No they are when you got epic moments and stacks of debuffs going .
Quick cutter is fine. There problem is all others are basically trash. Just a extra range and multi are not enough for end game. We got race and class at that do that.

What needs to be done to blance game
Lower the Spell Power damage reduction. This will buff everyone not just casters.( make ek great agian) Buff all epic strikes But cutter it is fine as is.
Raise lvl cap or add damage die to caster epic strikes they lack right now.
remove dual shot inquis useing a rune arm( this will blance them out greatly they are far stronger than anything else right now. )
No hold bars needs a longer cool down. it's way to short for how huge a damage burst it is.
Tank trees need more aggro generation. And to some hit (glancing blows do do crap to hold aggro lol)
. The main points here. there tons but that a whole thread it's self.

 

[songswrath]

Overly high Quick cutter ticks are caused by lag. Any DOT in this game can be delayed by a lag spike and then get added to the next tick.

Also getting hit by same damage multiple times I see this on my tank alot

 

[jacko]

I learned on the forums form a similar thread to this, just how multiplicative debuffs are when applied to damage (thanks folks!). My red/purple boss DPS went up significantly as a result.

 

[lilgeek]

Also, the failing of a lot of raids is the fact that there is ONE boss that everyone beats on in the raid.

The Hydra raid with one boss and several mini-bosses are a good way to remedy this.

Better approach, require team problem solving such as The Titan Awakes raid.

 

[Bjond]

Better approach, require team problem solving such as The Titan Awakes raid.

Raids that require strategies that begin with "if everyone .." end up permanently side-lined and ignored VERY quickly. RTSO is a classic example of a bad raid instantly ignored and the only thing after the "if everyone" for that raid is just "has electrical absorb".

There are two things I don't want to see in raids. The first is exclusion mechanics; things like the the hydra spin that one-shots most melee near her or the skeleton deflect in closet that *requires* a melee attack to remove. What's next? Mobs that are immune to magic? Exclusions are cheap lazy idiot-mode design.

The second I don't want to see are required "if everyone .." strategies. Judging from how I've seen most raids go, there are usually 2~4 people out of 12 that put in the effort to really learn a raid and fewer that will build for raiding. Most want to hang out with lots of friends in game as DPS sheep and go wild over big numbers.

The best raids also look to the far future and ensure it's possible to solo them given a sufficiently strong character; eg. VON is a great raid, but fails this test. I'd remove the synchronous action points (the "at the same time" requirements for levers and pylons). Teams already win via time-savings, no need to go further and lock it away from far-future solo.

 

[lilgeek]

Raids that require strategies that begin with "if everyone .." end up permanently side-lined and ignored VERY quickly. RTSO is a classic example of a bad raid instantly ignored and the only thing after the "if everyone" for that raid is just "has electrical absorb".

There are two things I don't want to see in raids. The first is exclusion mechanics; things like the the hydra spin that one-shots most melee near her or the skeleton deflect in closet that *requires* a melee attack to remove. What's next? Mobs that are immune to magic? Exclusions are cheap lazy idiot-mode design.

The second I don't want to see are required "if everyone .." strategies. Judging from how I've seen most raids go, there are usually 2~4 people out of 12 that put in the effort to really learn a raid and fewer that will build for raiding. Most want to hang out with lots of friends in game as DPS sheep and go wild over big numbers.

The best raids also look to the far future and ensure it's possible to solo them given a sufficiently strong character; eg. VON is a great raid, but fails this test. I'd remove the synchronous action points (the "at the same time" requirements for levers and pylons). Teams already win via time-savings, no need to go further and lock it away from far-future solo.

Oh I did the lightning raid ONCE. Never again. I liked the titan raid. I liked the shadow dragon raid. Both of the Ravenloft raids are amusing beer and pretzels raids. But riding the storm out...ugh.

 

[Guntango]

I think play what you enjoy, and there is a difficulty for that build!

I dislike not being at least somewhat useful in a game that you play with others.

I guess you could rework that a bit: “Play what you enjoy as long as there’s an inquis in your party.”

 

[SpartanKiller13]

The only reason raids ever fail is a lack of DPS. Inserting random damage mechanics (skulls, dots) forces higher HPs (can't DPS when you're dead), and as you state, by inserting red names since red-named DPS is usually where most players struggle.

Lmao this is blatantly not true, at least within the realm of possibility. Unless you are considering "just have every person do millions of DPS" as an option XD

Plenty of raids where DPS can be doing the wrong thing (popping dretches on the party in FoM), or the tank dies, or DPS is mostly irrelevant to survival (wiping in LMA to electric floor) - even just the healer running out of SP is a reason to fail raids. Or your DPS not being survivable enough, although debatably that falls under "lack of DPS" lol.

For sure, you can solve many/most LN/LH/older raids in Reaper by just adding DPS, but if you're in Reaper Skellies and the dino just bites your tank's head off adding more DPS won't keep you from failing. Or THTH if nobody can solve the puzzles while overeager DPS keeps piling the giants up.

 

[Mindos]

Plenty of raids where DPS can be doing the wrong thing (popping dretches on the party in FoM)

What does this mean?

 

[SpartanKiller13]

What does this mean?

Sometimes it's better to not kill things in raids, or to kill them in specific locations.

In Fires Over Morgrave, there are two easy examples:

1. Risia Ice Orbs clear both party debuffs and boss buffs in a radius around them when destroyed (and breaking them for fun/by accident is bad). Especially on higher difficulties, it's ~mandatory to have at least one available near the boss, and makes certain DPS options unviable (Call Lightning Storm as an obvious example).
2. Dretch Balefire Eaters - on death, these leave behind a circle that violently explodes after a short period of time. Ideally you want to instakill these far from the party, or CC them (again away from the party), but if you kill them on top of the party it can deal a lot of damage to anyone unable to escape the circle (tripped, tanking, not paying attention, melees trying to DPS boss, etc etc). Also they break the ice orbs if killed next to them.

 

[Guntango]

Lmao this is blatantly not true, at least within the realm of possibility. Unless you are considering "just have every person do millions of DPS" as an option XD

Plenty of raids where DPS can be doing the wrong thing (popping dretches on the party in FoM), or the tank dies, or DPS is mostly irrelevant to survival (wiping in LMA to electric floor) - even just the healer running out of SP is a reason to fail raids. Or your DPS not being survivable enough, although debatably that falls under "lack of DPS" lol.

For sure, you can solve many/most LN/LH/older raids in Reaper by just adding DPS, but if you're in Reaper Skellies and the dino just bites your tank's head off adding more DPS won't keep you from failing. Or THTH if nobody can solve the puzzles while overeager DPS keeps piling the giants up.

It’s actually blatantly true, and you back up their assertions in your argument. You’re the best.

 

[vryxnr]

What does this mean?

In my experience, the number one cause of failure in Fire over Morgrave is people killing the dretches in bad locations. When they die, they explode, doing massive fire damage in an area.

Other examples of "MOAR DPS" not always helping include:

FoM: Destroying the Risia Ice Orbs the moment they spawn (destroying them removes one of the DoTs in that raid, as well as the fire shield on the boss, but only to those directly beside the orb on destruction, so you want to NOT destroy them so they can be used if needed)

DoV: Killing the hydra heads before they are repositioned into the appropriate ritual circle will cause it to reattach and heal the hydra.

MoD: Killing Lady Vol causes auto-failure of the raid.

Skellies: Killing the Ghost Flame results in the bad ending (only one chest)
Skellies: Killing the Dark Secrets too quickly can result in everyone dying as every time one dies it causes raid wide damage. You want to control the rate you destroy them so the party can heal through the damage (or have everyone in the party with the dreamscape feat and time it for when they auto-explode after 45 seconds each time they spawn)

DWyrm: Auggie summons shadows at specific HP values, and when she is brought too low will heal, but when she heals, she also force-teleports everyone on the shadow side back, so too much DPS means the shadow team cannot finish their objectives as they keep getting teleported away. Auggie also has to die in a specific location, so DPSing when she's not there is counter-productive.

PN: The quartet of bosses have to get hit by the laser within a small window after dying. Overdoing DPS without making sure the laser user is ready and/or the boss/laser aren't in the correct position means they just come back at full, repeatedly.

HoX: DPSing the puppies makes it nearly impossible to complete, as the only way to do significant damage to mommy is by charming the pups with the control stones dropped by the illithids. Killing the pups means waiting for them to respawn to try again, or using one of the very few ways to bypass her immunities (which do so little damage as to be not worth the effort)

Shroud: in phase 2 if a DPS is constantly killing fast moving bosses close to the crystal, it's possible to create a situation where the 4 are never dead at the same time, or dead at the same time long enough to hit the crystal.

CoS: Strahd and the 3 brides have to be dead at the same time in order to interact with the sarcophagus in order to end the raid. DPS who are not paying attention, constantly killing the brides without killing strahd first, often results in all of them healing back to full to the frustration of all (strahd stays down for almost 10 seconds, the brides only for 3 each, so timing of all 4 deaths matters).

LoB: Destroying too many pillars to quickly robs everyone of a second end chest

Reavers Fate: mentioned previously, killing the stormreaver before he lights up all the ceiling balls and someone hits the western lever bricks the raid.

etc

 

[SpartanKiller13]

It’s actually blatantly true, and you back up their assertions in your argument. You’re the best.

Which is why if you look on the achievement forums it's 12 DPS in every push raid. More DPS always works better! You should know, you're there quite a bit!

I can also say I've done plenty of teaching raids and PUG raids, and more DPS is always better for those as well! And failing is never due to lack of coordination, inadequate roles, etc, just a pure DPS issue.

Probably a skill issue on my part.

 

[Guntango]

In my experience, the number one cause of failure in Fire over Morgrave is people killing the dretches in bad locations. When they die, they explode, doing massive fire damage in an area.

Other examples of "MOAR DPS" not always helping include:

FoM: Destroying the Risia Ice Orbs the moment they spawn (destroying them removes one of the DoTs in that raid, as well as the fire shield on the boss, but only to those directly beside the orb on destruction, so you want to NOT destroy them so they can be used if needed)

DoV: Killing the hydra heads before they are repositioned into the appropriate ritual circle will cause it to reattach and heal the hydra.

MoD: Killing Lady Vol causes auto-failure of the raid.

Skellies: Killing the Ghost Flame results in the bad ending (only one chest)
Skellies: Killing the Dark Secrets too quickly can result in everyone dying as every time one dies it causes raid wide damage. You want to control the rate you destroy them so the party can heal through the damage (or have everyone in the party with the dreamscape feat and time it for when they auto-explode after 45 seconds each time they spawn)

DWyrm: Auggie summons shadows at specific HP values, and when she is brought too low will heal, but when she heals, she also force-teleports everyone on the shadow side back, so too much DPS means the shadow team cannot finish their objectives as they keep getting teleported away. Auggie also has to die in a specific location, so DPSing when she's not there is counter-productive.

PN: The quartet of bosses have to get hit by the laser within a small window after dying. Overdoing DPS without making sure the laser user is ready and/or the boss/laser aren't in the correct position means they just come back at full, repeatedly.

HoX: DPSing the puppies makes it nearly impossible to complete, as the only way to do significant damage to mommy is by charming the pups with the control stones dropped by the illithids. Killing the pups means waiting for them to respawn to try again, or using one of the very few ways to bypass her immunities (which do so little damage as to be not worth the effort)

Shroud: in phase 2 if a DPS is constantly killing fast moving bosses close to the crystal, it's possible to create a situation where the 4 are never dead at the same time, or dead at the same time long enough to hit the crystal.

CoS: Strahd and the 3 brides have to be dead at the same time in order to interact with the sarcophagus in order to end the raid. DPS who are not paying attention, constantly killing the brides without killing strahd first, often results in all of them healing back to full to the frustration of all (strahd stays down for almost 10 seconds, the brides only for 3 each, so timing of all 4 deaths matters).

LoB: Destroying too many pillars to quickly robs everyone of a second end chest

etc

Ridiculous. These are just people who don’t know the raids, not that do too much dps.

 

[Guntango]

Which is why if you look on the achievement forums it's 12 DPS in every push raid. More DPS always works better! You should know, you're there quite a bit!

I can also say I've done plenty of teaching raids and PUG raids, and more DPS is always better for those as well! And failing is never due to lack of coordination, inadequate roles, etc, just a pure DPS issue.

Probably a skill issue on my part.

Failing a raid most often occurs due to lack of coordination, bad toons/players or lag. Hearing that too much dps causes raids to fail is a new one for me.

 

[Vua]

In my experience, the number one cause of failure in Fire over Morgrave is people killing the dretches in bad locations. When they die, they explode, doing massive fire damage in an area.

Other examples of "MOAR DPS" not always helping include:

FoM: Destroying the Risia Ice Orbs the moment they spawn (destroying them removes one of the DoTs in that raid, as well as the fire shield on the boss, but only to those directly beside the orb on destruction, so you want to NOT destroy them so they can be used if needed)

DoV: Killing the hydra heads before they are repositioned into the appropriate ritual circle will cause it to reattach and heal the hydra.

MoD: Killing Lady Vol causes auto-failure of the raid.

Skellies: Killing the Ghost Flame results in the bad ending (only one chest)
Skellies: Killing the Dark Secrets too quickly can result in everyone dying as every time one dies it causes raid wide damage. You want to control the rate you destroy them so the party can heal through the damage (or have everyone in the party with the dreamscape feat and time it for when they auto-explode after 45 seconds each time they spawn)

DWyrm: Auggie summons shadows at specific HP values, and when she is brought too low will heal, but when she heals, she also force-teleports everyone on the shadow side back, so too much DPS means the shadow team cannot finish their objectives as they keep getting teleported away. Auggie also has to die in a specific location, so DPSing when she's not there is counter-productive.

PN: The quartet of bosses have to get hit by the laser within a small window after dying. Overdoing DPS without making sure the laser user is ready and/or the boss/laser aren't in the correct position means they just come back at full, repeatedly.

HoX: DPSing the puppies makes it nearly impossible to complete, as the only way to do significant damage to mommy is by charming the pups with the control stones dropped by the illithids. Killing the pups means waiting for them to respawn to try again, or using one of the very few ways to bypass her immunities (which do so little damage as to be not worth the effort)

Shroud: in phase 2 if a DPS is constantly killing fast moving bosses close to the crystal, it's possible to create a situation where the 4 are never dead at the same time, or dead at the same time long enough to hit the crystal.

CoS: Strahd and the 3 brides have to be dead at the same time in order to interact with the sarcophagus in order to end the raid. DPS who are not paying attention, constantly killing the brides without killing strahd first, often results in all of them healing back to full to the frustration of all (strahd stays down for almost 10 seconds, the brides only for 3 each, so timing of all 4 deaths matters).

LoB: Destroying too many pillars to quickly robs everyone of a second end chest

etc

Most of these are not DPS issues. People not understanding the mechanics, being drunk or being stupid cause these issues. Risia orbs? Come on.

 

[Bobbryan2]

Why are we conflating MORE DPS solves almost every problem with the existence of non-DPS raid mechanics?

This feels disingenuous to me.

 

[vryxnr]

Ridiculous. These are just people who don’t know the raids, not that do too much dps.

Most of these are not DPS issues. People not understanding the mechanics, being drunk or being stupid cause these issues. Risia orbs? Come on.

More DPS doesn't solve those issues though (and some of them are a result of too much DPS). That is the point of bringing those up.

I will copy-paste the claim that started this tangent: "the only reason raids ever fail is a lack of DPS."

Anyone who raids knows that there are mechanics in some raids (as have been pointed out above), that need to be taken into consideration, where too much DPS - especially in the wrong place - can cause raid failure. So the statement "the only reason raids ever fail is a lack of DPS" is clearly not true. Raids fail for a number of reasons, not all of which are a simple lack of DPS.

 

[Guntango]

More DPS doesn't solve those issues though. That is the point of bringing those up.

I will copy-paste the claim that started this tangent: "the only reason raids ever fail is a lack of DPS."

Anyone who raids knows that there are mechanics in some raids (as have been pointed out above), that need to be taken into consideration, where too much DPS - especially in the wrong place - can cause raid failure. So the statement "he only reason raids ever fail is a lack of DPS" is clearly not true. Raids fail for a number of reasons, not all of which are a simple lack of DPS.

More dps solves some of the problems that Spartan listed; the longer a tank has to tank a boss, the more likely they are to die. The longer a healer has to heal the tank/raid, the more likely they are to run out of mana. More dps soundly solves those problems.

Unless you’re bringing your gramma and a bunch newbs who just rolled toons yesterday, DPS solves 99.999999% of your problems 92.71% of the time. For all the other times, lag.

NONE of your listed examples have anything to do with too much dps, rather, just bad players/coordination.