When are the devs gonna fix Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny:

[VinoeWhines]

Tier Four​

• After 12 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

	Improved Invisibility: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 4 minutes) Turn invisible for [10/20/30] seconds. Attacking does not break this effect. After it wears off, you retain partial concealment for a time (grants Displacement for [30/60/90] seconds).
EDP Cost: 1	Ranks: 3	Progression: 12	No requirements
	Pierce the Gloom: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) You are accustomed to seeing clearly even in the darkest conditions. Activate this ability to clear any Blindness effect on yourself. For 30 seconds afterwards you always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 12	Requires: Grim Precision
	Dexterity/Intelligence: Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 12	No requirements

Tier Five​

• After 16 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

	Shadow Manipulation: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) Activate to dominate the target for 1 minute (Will DC 10 + character level + higher of Dex or Int modifier + Assassination bonuses), after which it is subject to instant death if it fails a fortitude save (DC 10 + character level + higher of Dex or Int modifier + Assassination bonuses). This effect appears to work only on humanoids, living constructs and some aberrations.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 16	No requirements
	Untouchable: Passive Bonus: Gain 3% dodge and +1 critical multiplier on rolls of 19-20.
EDP Cost: 1	Ranks: 1	Progression: 16	No requirements
	Executioner's Strike/Shot: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. On hit: You have a 35% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 7 + character level + higher of Dex or Int modifier + Assassination bonuses). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack.
EDP Cost: 1	Ranks: 3	Progression: 16	No requirements
	Sealed Soul: Passive Bonus: Grants you immunity to energy drain.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 16	No requirements
	Dexterity/Intelligence: Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 16	No requirements

Tier Six​

• After 20 points are spent, abilities in this tier can be purchased.

	Consume: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) Activate to create a field around you for 10 seconds. Every 2 seconds the aura causes one nearby corporeal enemy to be devoured by its own shadow and die (Fort DC 10 + character level + higher of Dex or Int modifier + Assassination bonuses), or take 80-120 damage. You are free to perform other actions while the aura is active.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 20	No requirements
	Shadow Form: Active Ability : (Cooldown: 1 minute) Activate to gain 25% incorporeal miss chance (and ignore incorporeal miss chance of targets), float as if affected by Feather Fall, have bonuses to Hide and Move Silently (testing shows +20 to both) and deal strength damage on all melee and ranged attacks. When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so. You also take double damage from light effects. This is a toggled ability that persists until toggled off or leaving a quest. This is a Major Form, and cannot be combined with Pale Master undead forms, Warlock Celestial Spirit, Aasimar Divine forms, Sorcerer Elemental forms, or Druid wild shapes.
EDP Cost: 1	Ranks: 1	Progression: 20	No requirements
	Dark Imbuement: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) For 30 seconds, you deal an extra 9d6 unholy damage with every strike (scales with 200% higher of melee or ranged power), +15 Melee and Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack dice, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically, and your ranged attacks have a 30% chance to explode, dealing 18d6 unholy damage (scales with 200% ranged power) to all enemies in a large radius around your target.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 20	No requirements
	Dexterity/Intelligence: Passive Bonus: +1 Dexterity/Intelligence.
EDP Cost: 2	Ranks: 1	Progression: 20	No requirements

This is to show what Shadow Dancer was prior to the Identity Crisis it is now.

​

 

[VinoeWhines]

One of the problems I see is that without filling in the stealth killing niche, each other destiny is simply better than Shadowdancer for what it does. Fatesinger, Primal, and Grandmaster offer better AoE instakills (Cut the Strings, Mass Frog, and everything is nothing). Shiradi offers better misdirection (charms and mass confusion with no save). Excluding the bonafide spellcaster destinies, the other destinies have better forms of CC (if you count the blind from Shadowdancer as a CC). Pretty much every other spellcaster destiny is better than Shadowdancer for spell damage. Fury offers better recovery (damage reduction and heal with Primal Scream). Dreadnought, Fury, and Grandmaster offer better damage. Heck, Grandmaster even allows you to tumble through monsters, which is something that you should probably be able to do in shadow form.

Some changes I'd suggest, making it more thematic with a darkness/shadow tree:

---

(Core 2) Step Through Shadows: Dimension Door SLA. Cooldown of 2 minutes. Passive: When you go invisible, for 4 seconds you gain Improved Invisibility (is not removed on attack/spellcast). When you use Shadow Veil (Ninja Spy), Improved Invisibility lasts 8 seconds instead. This may happen once per minute.

(Core 3) The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1. If you have Improved Evasion already and have Epic Reflexes, increase your MRR cap by 10.

(Core 4) Cut to the Soul: +3% dodge bypass, +3% fortification bypass, +3% damage versus the helpless. When you cast the spell Trap the Soul or activate an assassinate ability (instakill that benefits from assassinate bonuses), you automatically applies 3 stacks of the Darkness debuff even if the enemy survives. Darkness debuff: You are vulnerable to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.

(T1) Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: Gain the Hide in Plain Sight feat. If you already have the Hide in Plain Sight feat, you may keep it while moving in stealth.

(T2) Shadowform (Mantle): Grants +10% Action bonus to movement speed, 25% Insight bonus to Sneak Speed, 25% Insight bonus to Cast Run Speed, and grants ghost touch. On sneak attack, you deal 2 strength damage up to once per second. If you have the Crippling Strike Feat, this is upgraded to 1d6 strength damage.

(T2) Sleight of Hand: Active Ability. Bluff a target on a failed Will save (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate). Your attacks and spells against this target deal a -1 penalty to saves, stacking up to 5 times.

(T2) Shadowstrike (Epic Strike): Reduced the cooldown from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.

(T3) Depths of Darkness: While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you gain 25% Incorporeality and 25% Concealment. You can tumble through enemies. Your spells can now deal 2 strength damage up to once per second. If you have the Crippling Strike Feat, this is upgraded to 1d6 strength damage.

(T3) Paranoia (Epic Strike Upgrade): Attacks and spells shaken enemies with no save.

(T4) Pierce the Gloom: Bring down from T4 to T3.

(T3 -> T4) Grim Precision: +1/2/3 Spell Penetration, and you bypass 5/10/15% enemy Fortification. Rank 3: Treat blind enemies as if they have an AC of 0.

(T4) Dark Mercy: Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle now grants you +5/10/15% Helplessness damage. Gain life when you deal sneak attack damage, as the vampirism ability.

(T4) Improved Paranoia (Epic Strike Upgrade): On vorpal or 10% chance on spellcast: confuse enemy for 6 seconds with no save.

(T4) Bring Darkness: When you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, applying the Darkness debuff. If you have the feat First Blood, you trigger the extra damage of First Blood whenever you apply the Darkness debuff regardless of hit points, and First Blood now triggers on Harmful Spellcasts. Darkness: The target is no longer immune to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 Physical Resistance Rating and -3 Magical Resistance Rating per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.

(T4) From the Shadows: Assassinate Ability. From a stealthed position, dissolve into shadows, before pouncing on an enemy in front of you (an animation somewhat similar to the Razorclaw's "Pounce" or "Go For the Kill" from Nature's Warrior). Target must make a fortitude save against being slain (20 + highest ability score + assassinate). 20 second cooldown. Requires being in sneak mode to use.

(T5) Consumed by Shadows: Active ability. Non-boss enemies around you must make a Fort save against being blinded and a Will save against being confused, and corporeal creatures must make a Reflex save against being immobilized (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate). Bosses instead have their AC set to 0 on a failed Fort save and gain stacks of vulnerability when hit on a failed Will save. Duration: 10 seconds. Enemies have a recurring save to break out of the immobilized state every 2 seconds. Cooldown: 1 minute. Passive: Confused enemies gain a stack of Vulnerability when struck, and your attacks and spells against targets that have a strength of 0 slay them with no save, up to once per second.

(T5) Greater Shadowform: While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you float as if you had Feather Fall, gain +20 Hide and Move Silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. (Note: As a result of the floating, you are also immune to Trip and Knockdown effects.) When your HP falls below 50%, you gain the effects of Dark Discorporation. This effect may only trigger once every 60 seconds.

(T5) Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strike as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Activating Consumed by Shadows while under the effect of Shadow Mastery sets the strength of targets immobilized by Consumed by Shadows to 0. Duration: 30 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

These are all solid points and would point the Shadow Dancer Tree in the right direction.
Like I mentioned earlier, the Caster side of Shadow Dancer Should of been incorporated in Magus of the Eclipse, since it also has few Spell types to it in Negative and Cold damage only.
Force and illusion would of fit in nicely in that Tree to have more choices and Weird could of been in that Tree's choices.
There was no need to fit a square peg in a round hole in Caster being forced into Shadow Dancer Tree. Magus was a new Tree and Illusion caster could of fit in there nicely.

 

[VinoeWhines]

(Core 3) The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1. If you have Improved Evasion already and have Epic Reflexes, increase your MRR cap by 10.

Very good per se, seems not very thematic for me.

What is anti-thematic about getting MRR cap to raise by 10? Who only gets to raise MRR in Epic Destiny/Class?
Epic Destiny theme is: There are secrets hidden in the shadows, ready for the taking for those brave enough to seek them.
Shadowdancers use a mixture of weapons and magic to strike from the shadows. No matter their choice of spells or steel, they attack from the shadows and can kill foes instantly. Use the power of shadows.

(T2) Shadowform (Mantle): Grants +10% Action bonus to movement speed, 25% Insight bonus to Sneak Speed, 25% Insight bonus to Cast Run Speed, and grants ghost touch. On sneak attack, you deal 2 strength damage up to once per second. If you have the Crippling Strike Feat, this is upgraded to 1d6 strength damage.

Pure Rogue ability. SD is not Rogue ED. No.

I would choose: If you have the Sap Feat, you now also Stun the mobs on successful attack.

(T2) Sleight of Hand: Active Ability. Bluff a target on a failed Will save (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate). Your attacks and spells against this target deal a -1 penalty to saves, stacking up to 5 times.

Pure Rogue ability. SD is not Rogue ED. No.

Shadow Dancer does cater to stealth and Rogue Class. Bluff is stealthy playstyle. I had suggested it be an improvement for Trapmaking in adding Melee/Range Power and Sneak Attack Dice to traps made. And if you can't make traps, it gives character ability to make "noise maker traps/throwing vials" to pull mobs toward party.

(T4) Dark Mercy: Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle now grants you +5/10/15% Helplessness damage. Gain life when you deal sneak attack damage, as the vampirism ability.

Solid no. It's undead vampire theme and ability, leave it to dead and undead.

Simple fix, would be wording. Just like Fury of the Wild gets HP, on attack. Gain life when you sneak attack damage(or Assassinate) as you drain the enemies Shadow life force away, till they cast no more shadows and are Consumed.

(T4) From the Shadows: Assassinate Ability. From a stealthed position, dissolve into shadows, before pouncing on an enemy in front of you (an animation somewhat similar to the Razorclaw's "Pounce" or "Go For the Kill" from Nature's Warrior). Target must make a fortitude save against being slain (20 + highest ability score + assassinate). 20 second cooldown. Requires being in sneak mode to use.

Currently it's under-wings for the poor. You wanna convert it to another spring attack for melee. I wanna my wings to fly over obstacles, not to fly to enemy. And what about ranged? If you wanna assassination ability in tree ( and i must remind, SD not Rogue ED, but Illusion/Shadow) how about give all version, ranged and magical include?

Again, this was an ability that was already there in Shadow Dancer in Executioner Shot/Strike: (On hit: You have a 35% chance to kill a target instantly. Cooldown: 12 Seconds). In Tuxedo's suggestion it would be incorporated into "From the Shadows" which right now is not very complete. It should have Tumble through enemies and Consume a mob's lifeforce. That way it would take care of Consume and Executioner Strike ability that was taken away. Though we should get back both from before.

Under-wings for the poor sounds elitist to me. You can get Cannith boots of Propulsion as well to have the "Mighty Wings" as well. Spread Your Wings is another "Wings" ability, so is Abundant Step.
From the Shadows for me would be like ability in Slave Lords Part 3, Final Fight, where just like Repeater, mini boss teleports(disappears/reappears), we would be able to disappear and reappear as mobs shadow behind them or distance away and not be detected to get in sneak attacks. Like even Shifter Displacer Beasts. Automatically proccing an Improved Deception on mob to get in Sneak Attacks.

(T5) Consumed by Shadows: Active ability. Non-boss enemies around you must make a Fort save against being blinded and a Will save against being confused, and corporeal creatures must make a Reflex save against being immobilized (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate). Bosses instead have their AC set to 0 on a failed Fort save and gain stacks of vulnerability when hit on a failed Will save. Duration: 10 seconds. Enemies have a recurring save to break out of the immobilized state every 2 seconds. Cooldown: 1 minute. Passive: Confused enemies gain a stack of Vulnerability when struck, and your attacks and spells against targets that have a strength of 0 slay them with no save, up to once per second.

Personally i pref old version, it just must be Weird for non-caster (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate).

Why just not bring back how Consume was. Simple.
Consume: Create a field around yourself that lasts 10 seconds. Every 2 seconds, the aura causes:
One nearby corporeal enemy to be devoured by its own shadow and die.
Fortitude DC: 10 + Character Level + Highest Ability Modifier + Assassination Bonus negates the death.
On a successful save, they take 80-120 damage.

Though I do like Tuxedo's suggestion as well but would maybe do Neg leveling as well and/or CON damage.
Like maybe instantly putting a Symbol of Shadow Absorption: A Symbol is placed above you(the radius of Blade Barrier), enemies passing through become blinded, stunned or Commanded to stay in place, scared of their shadows upon them.

(T5) Greater Shadowform: While in your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle, you float as if you had Feather Fall, gain +20 Hide and Move Silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. (Note: As a result of the floating, you are also immune to Trip and Knockdown effects.) When your HP falls below 50%, you gain the effects of Dark Discorporation. This effect may only trigger once every 60 seconds.

Too vampiric themed again. Shadow Veil-like effect must bу better, and also here be synergy with your updated version Core 2.

I would go with. When your HP falls below 50%, you gain 25% stacking Incorporeal and Displacement for 15 seconds.
When below 75% gain instead 35%. Each time you deal the killing blow you steal a Shadows Hit Points, based off of Sneak Attack Dice.

Tier V: Epic Moment: Besides what it offers. But could put back.
Gain Ability: Cheat Death. You are also able to Cheat Death and bypass death timers with a chance of self-resurrection, but this chance drops each time you die and Maruts dislike you.

Cheat Death was an ability that got taken away from before. Should be brought back. Monks got to keep theirs in Rise of the Phoenix.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Rogue_Cheat_Death

 

[Dergex]

Solid no. It's undead vampire theme and ability, leave it to dead and undead.

It's important to mention that Shadowdancer is based on Shadows from the Shadowfell. Shadows are undead. They typically drain strength from their targets but some higher level versions can drain other things. The idea behind the suggestion for vampirism was to allow Shadowdancers a little bit of sustainability while in combat, which right now they sorely lack. I'd be content with sapping strength from a target to gain temporary hitpoints or some variant that restored health. Just something so that my Shadowdancer doesn't HAVE to dip into Primal Avatar just to pick up Cocoon in order to protect himself. While Shadowdancer does have a bit of a scattershot identity at the moment having to serve Melee, Ranged, and Spellcasters alike they shouldn't sacrifice usability for any of those three because of it.

 

[VinoeWhines]

It's important to mention that Shadowdancer is based on Shadows from the Shadowfell. Shadows are undead. They typically drain strength from their targets but some higher level versions can drain other things. The idea behind the suggestion for vampirism was to allow Shadowdancers a little bit of sustainability while in combat, which right now they sorely lack. I'd be content with sapping strength from a target to gain temporary hitpoints or some variant that restored health. Just something so that my Shadowdancer doesn't HAVE to dip into Primal Avatar just to pick up Cocoon in order to protect himself. While Shadowdancer does have a bit of a scattershot identity at the moment having to serve Melee, Ranged, and Spellcasters alike they shouldn't sacrifice usability for any of those three because of it.

Excellent points!
Shadow Dancer has SACRIFICED soo much, just to cater to a Force/Illusion caster that could of EASILY fit in Magus of the Eclipse.


In fact, IT SHOULD OF BEEN THERE!
Magus means "Magician" in Latin. Even going back to the Old Persian magush.
Magicians USE ILLUSION for "Forcing" perceptions to their advantage. Magus IS an Illusion(By Name) type of Tree as the name Implies.

Magus Tree also has the fewest type of choices of all the caster Trees in regards to Spell types: Only Cold and Negative.
It already has Force and Illusion would round out that Tree easily.

Look at all the things Shadow Dancer lost to add a Caster to force a square peg into a round whole. It's squatting on a Tree that could of expanded more to using Throwing Daggers as a Range option or Crossbows as well. Staff could of replaced the Caster side, so Acrobats and Monks could of ventured into that Tree as well.

There was no need to split Stealthy and Assassinate into TWO separate choices when they where originally together and a waste of 3(Three) Points in having to SPEND SIX POINTS! When they use to be together!

Stealthy: Passive Bonus: +[2/4/6] to Hide and Move Silently skills. +[2/4/6] to Assassinate DC (if you have Assassinate). Hide in Plain Sight at rank 3. (THIS SHOULD NOT OF BEEN SPLIT UP IN TREE NOW)

Another option as well could be based off of Move Silently and Hide Skills to raise your Incorporeality incrementally after a certain number is reached.

Assassinate is not a spell and Deathblock/Deathward are magical protection against instant spell deaths.
Obviously Boss' and Red Names would not be insta-killed by easily having their Fortification double the amount of mobs.
But instead when sufficiently damaged, assassinate can act as Mortal Fear: 5% Chance of reducing mobs health by half. This would be Tier V level options or in the Assassin Tree as part of Measure The Foe 3rd point spent or even Core 6.

 

[VinoeWhines]

Are there any Devs out there, that are sympathetic to the cause of Stealth/Rogue Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny Tree?

 

[SunTzu]

At least, it seems someone left SSG, who made this shadowdancer ED ****.

 

[VinoeWhines]

At least, it seems someone left SSG, who made this shadowdancer ED ****.

I believe it was only one person who was in charge of Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny and it all got green lighted without much discussion with/between: devs/producers and players, as it was rushed through. A lot of feed back was given but none heeded.

Again all of this was lost with the Epic Destiny pass:

Consume(Implosion): and not have to worry about getting hit(Like new Epic Moment, where you have to be swung at for it to go off) but rather can stealth/evade and the "Implosion" would take place based off of your DC, there was no need to be in a position to get swung/hit at.

Shadow Manipulation(Beguile Charm) would allow you to start a fight with your puppet(Dominate spell) attacking the other mobs and drawing aggro, after which it is subject to instant death if it fails a fortitude save (DC 10 + character level + higher of Dex or Int modifier + Assassination bonuses), while you position yourself to sneak attack or attempt an assassinate in stealth avoiding drawing aggro.

Pass Through Enemies on Tumble: This was kept in Grandmaster of Flowers and shouldn't of been removed in Shadow Dancer and was a defensive feature to tumble through mobs if you some how got cornered or needed to tumble through a door opening to escape.

Stealthy% and Assassinate DC's: were given together at a +[2/4/6] option and now it's separated and a case of wasting more points when you use to get both(illusion of wasted choice).

Executioner's Strike/Shot: Melee or ranged attack (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Melee or ranged attack, Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. On hit: You have a 35% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 7 + character level + higher of Dex or Int modifier + Assassination bonuses). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack.
Gave you a second form of assassinate at only a 35% low chance.

You were able to have both of these choices and not have to hard choose one or the other......
Dark Imbuement: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) For 30 seconds, you deal an extra 9d6 unholy damage with every strike (scales with 200% higher of melee or ranged power), +15 Melee and Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack dice, the effective range of your melee attacks increases dramatically, and your ranged attacks have a 30% chance to explode, dealing 18d6 unholy damage (scales with 200% ranged power) to all enemies in a large radius around your target.

Meld Into Darkness: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) +100% Enhancement bonus to dodge for [9/12/15] seconds.
(You could of just lowered the dodge % or built it up from Tier III-IV-V as 25/45/65% and shouldn't be tied to you attacking as it is a defensive escape.)

You were able to have both Dark Imbuement AND Meld abilities together, the cooldowns were longer but at least you had the choice of both of them together if you wanted.

Just a taste is now Untouchable but without the 3% dodge(why remove the dodge?)
Untouchable: Passive Bonus: Gain 3% dodge and +1 critical multiplier on rolls of 19-20.

 

[VinoeWhines]

The Caster part in Shadow Dancer should of been in, Magus of Eclipse, which means Magician of Eclipse = Magician is an Illusionist, obscuring light (Eclipse) and should be in that Tree(Magus) and not Shadow Dancer Tree were it is more a stealth melee/range Incorporeal-Displacement Tree with that, should be more like a Displacer Beast, able to shift(Like Rogue mini boss in Slave Lords part 3) and zone/teleport in and out of combat.

Tree should be able to Summon a Displacer Beast to fight along side you(just like some Trees can Summon things: Dryad, Storm Guard, Briar Patch), phasing in and out, hard to hit.
Would be nice if you had Tentacles coming out of your back, permanently Stacking Displacement/Incorporeal(which it does have now) and Life Stealing(Mortal Fear) or Removal of Eyes(permanent blindness)
Combat of Displacer Beasts: may attack with a bite or spiked tentacles which both deal Piercing damage. Occasionally, they may rear up and attack with two tentacles at once, also causing a Knockdown effect
Maybe be able to shift into a Displacer Beast as well.(like how Druid shifts to Bear/wolf)

 

[Konsumer]

Over the years I have become convinced Devs wished assassins didn't exist. They really don't care about the class or playstyle. I mean... the facts show the truth. From back in the days when assassins weren't allowed to assassinate in epics to today and the issues noted above. I've begged and pleaded over the past decade and only got ignored or discounted. Rogue was all I played for the first dozen years. Now... why should I? They suck at self healing, their no fail on reaper assassinate DC is far too difficult to obtain, and they have no real CC to speak about. Every other class has been handed the abilities that were unique to rogues. Most can do it better.
Maybe I'm pessimistic but I don't see any of this discourse making an impact. It never has before.

 

[VinoeWhines]

That is why, I sent out, for a Beacon of Hope, that maybe-somewhere, out there, a dev/producer/shareholder will receive our plea for help, as the class is being cornered out of existence to be no more. The few, remnants left of us try to be vigilant to the code, we honor. We try to realm in peace, not the aggressor but to rather pass by and avoid conflict unless, they draw first blood or are the aggressor, also when the objective is to secure a prisoner.

Setting Traps to cause evasion, confusion or redirection-destruction.

Put the Caster of Illusion out of Shadow Dancer Tree
and let it go back to it's true home Epic Destiny Tree where it belongs: Magician (Magus = Illusionist) of the Eclipse Tree.

 

[VinoeWhines]

I guess with this new XP Update, we will be forced to KILL TEN RATS....Again and Again....
RATS IN A CAGE

 

[Aelonwy]

Only skimming the thread...

I too wish the Epic Destinies were more focused. I too would prefer the casting aspects of Shadow Dancer moved to a more casting focused tree and make Shadow Dancer a more stealth melee/ranged focused tree so that there would be less wasted EDP trying to climb a tree with too many enhancements not meant for my preferred playstyle.

I feel the same way about Shiradi Champion, which now feels mostly useless to a caster. But even when it was good for a caster still resulted in a tremendous number of wasted EDP because it is almost evenly divided between ranged and caster with some choices useless to both so wasted EDP either way. Now I ONLY have ranged in the tree and it still feels repugnant to climb the tree taking things just to qualify for points spent.

Shadowdancer at least doesn't make me feel like I'm completely wasting points for these benchmarks but certainly there are things I'd rather have for my points.

 

[Dergex]

My hope is that we'll get a "Rogue Focused" patch at some point where they overhaul stealth mechanics, do a massive rebalance and overhaul of trapping, Rogues and their enhancement trees, and Shadowdancer as a part of it. At least, that's the only thing that makes sense to me as to why they'd be holding off so long to touch any of this again.

The other possibility is that they just don't want to touch any of it without addressing all of it.. So they'll just likely leave it on the back burner until the end of time.. Which is kind of depressing to think.

 

[Ahpuch]

My hope is that we'll get a "Rogue Focused" patch at some point where they overhaul stealth mechanics, do a massive rebalance and overhaul of trapping, Rogues and their enhancement trees, and Shadowdancer as a part of it. At least, that's the only thing that makes sense to me as to why they'd be holding off so long to touch any of this again.

Oh my..... Who wants to let him down gently?

The other possibility is that they just don't want to touch any of it without addressing all of it.. So they'll just likely leave it on the back burner until the end of time.. Which is kind of depressing to think.

Whew, It looks like you almost have it figured out. Just one minor tweak:

The other possibility is that they just don't want to touch any of it. Which is kind of depressing to think.

But maybe I am too pessimistic.... I believe that if they ever were to do a rogue pass it would simply result in the worsening of all stealth options. It would probably involve in splitting up and or doubling the costs of anything that gives Move Silently, Hide, or sneak speed and would be coupled with giving all champs, orange named and red named Tremor Sense. Okay that is too pessimistic.

 

[DYWYPI]

Sneaking past mobs to avoid combat and Stealth play are two totally different concepts; any fool can avoid being detected by mobs if they are only travelling from point: A to B to avoid combat. Whereas proper Stealth play takes time and patience.

It took several years and not until [U45.2], before there was any further DDO Developer response to any Assassin enthusiast, with regards to honest questions about using; Sneak or Stealth, etc. It happened to be me that got the first response (we're talking about 3 years of total silence from SSG up until that post). Refer to: [Post #90].

When things are at the worst, they begin to mend.

 

[Konsumer]

The idea of a Rogue has to be completely rethought. They have it so stuck on a cliche corner right now it's ridiculous.
A rogue can be a thug and a mugger. Both strength based melee types. They can be con men and pickpockets. Dex and int based. Shadowy Sneakthiefs, catburglers. Dex. Tricksters, trappers, and Big Bad Bullies. Dex, int and Str.
All it takes is a little imagination and any of those would be exciting subclasses with their own trees.

 

[VinoeWhines]

Caster part of Shadow Dancer, thematically belongs in Magus of the Eclipse. This is by definition so.

The concept of Illusionist is solid, it's just in the wrong Tree, that hampers Shadow Dancer into a less ideal position from all other Trees, that don't share anything.

Imagine if it (Caster part) was put in Legendary Dreadnaught or Fury of the Wild?
If it was put in Shiradi, maybe it could stretch in there as Shiradi benefited Casters at one point.

Magus means Magician/Magush an "Illusionist."
Everything in Shadow Dancer Tree for caster is Illusion/Force base.
It FITS PERFECTLY in Magus of the Eclipse. (As the name even implies "Illusionist")

This would open up the Tree (Shadow Dancer) for more Stealth/Evasive/CC-Traps/Assassinate = Melee/Range/Thuglife (clubs) type builds to go there for: Powerful Single Target DPS and Defensive Reflexive/Dodge builds.

 

[Elves United]

Caster part of Shadow Dancer, thematically belongs in Magus of the Eclipse. This is by definition so.

The concept of Illusionist is solid, it's just in the wrong Tree, that hampers Shadow Dancer into a less ideal position from all other Trees, that don't share anything.

While the caster vs assassin bipolar tree issue has always haunted Shadowdancer that isn't the destiny's biggest problem. It's problem is that it's Tier 4 abilities, Tier 5 abilities, and destiny mantle are all weak. Moving illusionist to Magus won't improve the destiny for assassins as long as those problems are unsolved.

And last I heard from the devs on this issue is that consider this destiny "balanced" with the other destinies. So I wouldn't expect any changes any time soon.

 

[Lotoc]

A lot of the ED multiselectors are half-crap. Don't know anyone that's taken quick, or the color spray half of shiradi.

Quick is honestly genuinely good for a two weapon fighting build but is fairly backloaded so only really performs on raid bosses (or during the epic moment)
While dual wielding it for some reason does 3 attacks with +2[w] and +3 crit range (+15% chance to crit), during the uptime of the dodge buff it will additionally apply the bane damage as an on hit effect, so every second cast of quick/cutter does an upfront 3 hits of bane damage that can easily each 10k each when fully stacked and well geared.
It then does that 10k damage every 2 seconds for 24 seconds.

It's not bad in the slightest it's just only really relevant for raid bosses while the average player is fixated more on reaper dungeons.