Which PURE class gives the most imbue dice?
- Thread starter kmoustakas
- Start date
droid327
Hardcore casual soloist
But I can do monstrous physical DPS or monstrous spell DPS and not have the same issue, because those have stats that let me temper my hate generation
Its only an issue for imbues because only imbues have no threat reduction stat. Thats what makes it a bug workaround and not just "git gudder at playing imbue builds right"
Terpilar
Well-known member
Actually, before we got this universal imbue system, how were the various damage add-ons (EK, AA, Inq...) treated regarding threat generation? Does anyone know?
Arkat
Founder & Super Hero
Bobbryan2
Well-known member
This is kinda stupid.
Just gonna say it.
Bobbryan2
Well-known member
No, he's saying it's great game design for one, particular melee build to have to estimate how much to nerf their own DPS because they don't have the tools that all other builds have.
The idea that somehow group dynamics are benefited from melee characters standing around trying to *time* their contributions is really whack.
Absolutely no one is getting better coordination or thoughtfully playing by simply trying to guess how long they can be useless so they won't die and become more useless.
Bobbryan2
Well-known member
On the contrary. That's EXACTLY what you're saying.
If Imbue builds are doing too much DPS because the devs cannot bother to give them the same aggro-mitigating options every other build in the game has due to a bug, then you need to CHOOSE to do less DPS.
Maybe you're getting defensive because you're actually just saying nonsense and getting called on it?
Geezer
Well-known member
Hey, I like this idea, I really would rather pike a raid than take a chance of getting one shotSo the best method to manage aggro is to pike, ok, got it!
Bjond
Well-known member
The big problem with the argument that "agro flips kill off the bad players" is that DDO has physical collision checks for attacks. Bad-stance Paladin stands right behind YOU because you look like you know what you're doing and he wants to see what you're doing, copy it, and look smart.
So, when the boss flips, it will hit you rather than him and he'll feel justified because, well, flips only kill bad players, right?
It's not self-correcting until he kills off everyone he can stand behind and he's not even doing it on purpose. He just wants to learn to play by watching the good ones. :(
So, when the boss flips, it will hit you rather than him and he'll feel justified because, well, flips only kill bad players, right?
It's not self-correcting until he kills off everyone he can stand behind and he's not even doing it on purpose. He just wants to learn to play by watching the good ones. :(
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
With 21 imbue dice, a high ranged power and 100% threat reduction I don't pull agro much in raids.
Imbues might be a contributing factor, but I think the bigger issue is people don't get to -100% threat because they don't want to make the trade-offs.
Jack Jarvis Esquire
Well-known member
It's a pity imbues don't work like SAD. I avoid them as a result. The aggro risk isn't worth it for me. I'd they changed them up then I'd gladly load up. 
Elminster
Sage of Shadowdale
You guys have a weird view on aggro, but I’m coming from a much more hardcore game than DDO.
In that game, you want to grab aggro from your tank as a means to “test” the tank and try to up his aggro/fight for aggro with you.. that raises the “aggro ceiling” allowing for DPS to push even harder on the boss.
In that game, you want to grab aggro from your tank as a means to “test” the tank and try to up his aggro/fight for aggro with you.. that raises the “aggro ceiling” allowing for DPS to push even harder on the boss.
Bjond
Well-known member
That's a game you can play within a non-pug group when people know each other; in EQ-1 we'd sometimes play "raid pong". Get a wizard on either side of the raid pack. Drop some BIG burst. Boss chases Wizard. Raid chases boss. Other wizard then drops BIG burst. Boss turns and runs the other way. Raid turns and chases boss ... (ok, it's more fun with a little ethanol).
Most MMOs do turn agro into a bit of a cooperative mini-game. FFXI had the best one where a thief could "trick" all his agro onto the person in front of him. Of course, thiefs only did this on tanks.
DDO has some serious agro problems. Intim does not work on everything and DPS can easily outstrip it. Throw-the-boom has a limited duration. Tanks (usually) don't have enough accuracy to hit things and not enough melee power to make the hit matter even with huge incite. It's not a little short on accuracy, too, but 100+ short and the problem is getting worse.
The whole thing is compounded by newbie advice: grab stalwart defense to help you survive. And, the need for -threat in raids conflicts for the desire for +threat in quests. It gets worse because building for -threat often means giving up DPS or making some hard build choices.
DDO agro is a mess. It's poorly conceived, badly implemented, and not documented.
Weaponalpha
Well-known member
OP: What pure class give most imbue dice?
Forum: DDO is AWFUL!
Elminster: Wizard 101 is Da Shizzle!
Forum: DDO is AWFUL!
Elminster: Wizard 101 is Da Shizzle!
kmoustakas
Scourge of Xaos
You just described the entire internet
Bjond
Well-known member
Paranoia is force. The "evil" bit in the tool-tip is descriptive fluff.
My TWF melee does DC Law + Paranoia. Stacking up non-primary damage procs scales best via attack rate; it's not a build method I'd use for 2H and is only a "maybe" for SWF.
BTW, Handwraps are about 15% faster than TWF and swf+bash is a teeny bit faster than wraps if you can get the bash rate up near 1/s. Those are the styles that win big from scaling procs.
DC Law does give better melee DPS than other T5s, but I would prefer big burst. Law only wins on DPS because the other T5s give such bad burst for melee. It still takes Law around 5m before it pulls ahead of LD and most fights don't last that long. Both "how dare you" and "beckon" were factors in swapping
swapping my TWF to DC -- they're v.handy for a raid-only melee.
Oh, ranged attack rates are definitely high enough to make DC Law pay off, BUT not when compared to the Shiradi Epic. Shiradi is burst, too, which is MUCH more useful than sustained. My ranged builds generally use Paranoia, though, if they have a lot of sneak dice.
saekee
long live ROGUE
oh that is good to know! I was wondering about the force procs and could not figure out where they were coming from. I was pulling from Swiv when my ki bolter was using DC Law though, in part why I switched up things.