Why do beginners give up the game? Why so few players?

GrizzlyOso

Well-known member
Even though I made fun of OP for claiming what makes an RPG the ability to buy pots (which again, you can do in this rpg) - they are right in that it's just "better" (easier?) to melee wiz until 12.

I normally look at it as a feature because it breaks up the PL into half casting half melee life - but the archmage tree really could use some SLA power somewhere in it. It's a pretty horrifyingly useless set of SLAs.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
Even though I made fun of OP for claiming what makes an RPG the ability to buy pots (which again, you can do in this rpg) - they are right in that it's just "better" (easier?) to melee wiz until 12.

I normally look at it as a feature because it breaks up the PL into half casting half melee life - but the archmage tree really could use some SLA power somewhere in it. It's a pretty horrifyingly useless set of SLAs.

I think the biggest problem for a caster Wizard early is that Magic Missiles blows chunks, even the SLA from AM is not particularly good. The damage doesn't get saved against or resisted but there isn't much of it to begin with so kind of irrelevant.
 

GrizzlyOso

Well-known member
I think the biggest problem for a caster Wizard early is that Magic Missiles blows chunks, even the SLA from AM is not particularly good. The damage doesn't get saved against or resisted but there isn't much of it to begin with so kind of irrelevant.
I would really like them to buff single target and DoT spells. They don't need to be so terrible, and they should do much more damage than AOE, which weirdly somehow does better damage, often costs similar sp, and does it to 20 targets at once.

I know it's been discussed a million times, and the game designers have always been against DoTs for some reason, but it just seems obvious.

We can even ignore the DoT conversation - single target direct spells should be good. Erase a normal non-champ target each cast sort of good.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
They should really buff those wands, they're very very useless even for newbies.

The only thing this game needs to be to retain people is "fun".
Could make them scale off metas and spellpower(/crit/crit damage). A while back I did a test of the CL11 nimbus wand (the fully upgraded version from the Mabar event), even at CL11, I found it was mostly useless by the time I was doing harbor base 2 quests. I'd love to see wands get a major pass, but it's probably not high on SSG's radar for where to commit dev time vs other things that need doing.
 

PersonMan

Well-known member
Could make them scale off metas and spellpower(/crit/crit damage). A while back I did a test of the CL11 nimbus wand (the fully upgraded version from the Mabar event), even at CL11, I found it was mostly useless by the time I was doing harbor base 2 quests. I'd love to see wands get a major pass, but it's probably not high on SSG's radar for where to commit dev time vs other things that need doing.
Wands and spellcasting items in general could use some love; outside of some buff spells they have been generally useless for a long time now.
I could see them changing wand and scroll mastery from 25/50/75% of the item to using that much of your spell power or maybe even set a base 25% and Wand and Scroll Mastery ups to 50/75/100%.
Just sad they put out a new blade barrier click and everyone points and laughs at it, and for good reason.

edit: Fireball and Ice Storm wands for Inferno are good, but you are not using them for damage.
 

Catmosphere

Well-known member
Years ago I had a friend leave the game for the same reason - saying he didn't want to keep buying mana pots from the store. He had completely missed the point and use of the rest shrines as its not a very normal thing in the games he plays (and I guess not that familiar with pnp D&D which DDO tries to remain faithful to at that point). When he found out he didn't have to buy mana pots he was kind of annoyed and never played again :/

I like that your question draws attention to this problem for new players. Many people love wizards in other games and will instinctively come to wizards when they start DDO for the first time - without realising its a very different beast. Glad so many people have chipped in with helpful suggestions :)
 

Purr

Well-known member
I've been playing for 5 weeks and, honestly, like most of those who come to know this game, I've given up playing.

An RPG where the Wizard is always out of mana and has no way to buy mana potions, nor is there any way to even drain mana, is not an RPG.

Every RPG I've ever played has never had problems with mana. And in every RPG I've ever played, I only play Wizard.

If this game requires a Wizard to act like a Gandalf, swinging swords to save mana for the final boss of each stage, then make the Wizard as strong as a Gandalf. And even if they did this, it still wouldn't be an RPG Wizard, but at least this would be helpful.

This game has no wizards. Real wizards use mana, but if this game doesn't have easily accessible mana potions, then this is not an RPG, but rather a slot game, where we have to pay real money to at least have the basics to do the basics, which is that the Wizard has mana!

Can someone please tell the developers that Wizard needs mana?

I'm not even going to list the other thousand defects of this game so as not to run out of mana.

This explains why games like Tibia have had 32 thousand players online for two decades, while this one, if it has 1,600, is a lot. And look, Tibia didn't even have sound until two years ago...

Mana potions, developers...mana potions...
Oh. Try playing warlock. I think it will have a lot of what you're looking for, which is a magic-user throwing balls of magic at bad guys. Use the ability where it ricochets off of bad guys to zap a bunch of them or where you throw cones of acid in everyone's face. In terms of just shooting magic at someone's face, warlock is a lot closer to what other games might call "wizard." Once you get to level 12, you can even become one of the sturdiest, impossible to kill builds in the game. I've gone entire warlock lives from level 1 to level 32 without really ever worrying about mana.

I'd suggest giving it a try before giving up on the game.
 

Purr

Well-known member
Eldritch Knight is one of the most powerful classes a new player can run. Stop trying to be a blaster and grab a great sword. Once you go up to 20 as an EK, you will have some familiarity with spells, plus you need the Wizard's past life anyway to be a competent caster. EK is incredible. You should try it.
I think he's looking for warlock but might not know it exists. Wizard in DDO is very different than what it might be in something like Diablo.
 

Enoach

Well-known member
Tips I give new spell casters
1. Spell Like Abilities use these more often than other spells - put them on hotbar and right click and apply Always on for metas
2. Don't turn Metas to Always On directly on your hotbar
3. Learn to gauge your damage output, avoid using high spell point spell when a lower cost one will do
4. When playing in a group, unless it is the boss, target a different mob then the melee
5. As a wizard Use the scroll vendors on your down time, learn as many spells as you can and then switch your spells to be the most useful, such as you know you are fighting fire elementals - load cold spells. Or High reflex mobs with evasion - don't load spells with reflex saves. Or constructs avoid charms.
6. Wands and Scrolls early on. Not just utility spells, but they can be spell point savers such as clean up, or if you have the itch that you have to hit everything in the dungeon just because you feel you should.

You can play at low levels without every having to swing a weapon, but it takes patience, practice and knowledge of how your spells work. Such as a well placed charm might help you avoid taking any damage, or even a fight. Or invisibility to get past a room.
 

Enir

Member
When I read posts like this, I say, "Thank you for checking out the game. I hope you will find something you enjoy someday."
Some people want a singular, straight forward story line with gear updating automatically as you progress. Some folks like puzzles and some like gobs of mobs. No problem.

DDO is enjoyed several different ways. Role playing, nuking, story telling, flower sniffing, power leveling, socializing, completionist, etc. There are all kinds of play styles for all kinds of people. I find DDO to be a wonderful sandbox with a variety of ways to experience it.
Thank you everyone for all of the suggestions, tips, advice and links. I have found them helpful.
 

Contessor

Well-known member
I've been playing for 5 weeks and, honestly, like most of those who come to know this game, I've given up playing.

An RPG where the Wizard is always out of mana and has no way to buy mana potions, nor is there any way to even drain mana, is not an RPG.

Every RPG I've ever played has never had problems with mana. And in every RPG I've ever played, I only play Wizard.

If this game requires a Wizard to act like a Gandalf, swinging swords to save mana for the final boss of each stage, then make the Wizard as strong as a Gandalf. And even if they did this, it still wouldn't be an RPG Wizard, but at least this would be helpful.

This game has no wizards. Real wizards use mana, but if this game doesn't have easily accessible mana potions, then this is not an RPG, but rather a slot game, where we have to pay real money to at least have the basics to do the basics, which is that the Wizard has mana!

Can someone please tell the developers that Wizard needs mana?

I'm not even going to list the other thousand defects of this game so as not to run out of mana.

This explains why games like Tibia have had 32 thousand players online for two decades, while this one, if it has 1,600, is a lot. And look, Tibia didn't even have sound until two years ago...

Mana potions, developers...mana potions...
Honestly, I get the frustration of the new player, but DDO is way closer to an RPG, than most modern RPGs. A wizard requires training before becomming powerful, as they are not born with sorc's innate abilities. DDO is not an easy RPG. Wizards (and msot casters) are very slow to start, but become more powerful after gaining spell-like abilities in their class trees. And they gain echoes of power that does recharge mana, usually enough to use SLAs.

I wish there were more tool tips or better training to explain these things to new people. But the player community can also help if you join LFMs and ask, or here on the forums.
 

Hobgoblin

Less Nerfy Nerfy more fixy fixy
new players leave because not much is done to keep them. ssg doesn't advertise and there are a lot of long-standing bugs like the ladders that push people away. and then of course there's the simple fact it is a 17-year-old game and the graphics reflect that and a lot of people want the new shiny so this won't work.
 

RangerOne

Well-known member
Years ago I had a friend leave the game for the same reason - saying he didn't want to keep buying mana pots from the store. He had completely missed the point and use of the rest shrines as its not a very normal thing in the games he plays (and I guess not that familiar with pnp D&D which DDO tries to remain faithful to at that point). When he found out he didn't have to buy mana pots he was kind of annoyed and never played again :/

I like that your question draws attention to this problem for new players. Many people love wizards in other games and will instinctively come to wizards when they start DDO for the first time - without realising its a very different beast. Glad so many people have chipped in with helpful suggestions :)
I had brought in a coworker and lost track of him in Kobold Assault. When he finally surfaced again he said he was in a corner trying to get his mana back. I directed him to the shrine and we completed okay. But things like that are what set the game apart from the herd. Constantly generating your health and spell points just makes no sense to me. And thankfully we don't have a PnP version where you get x number of spells and when those are done you are done until resting.

Wizard: I have to rest, I used my Magic Missile.
 

voenixa121

Well-known member
I had brought in a coworker and lost track of him in Kobold Assault. When he finally surfaced again he said he was in a corner trying to get his mana back. I directed him to the shrine and we completed okay. But things like that are what set the game apart from the herd. Constantly generating your health and spell points just makes no sense to me. And thankfully we don't have a PnP version where you get x number of spells and when those are done you are done until resting.

Wizard: I have to rest, I used my Magic Missile.
That's exactly why 5th edition has cantrips. In 3rd and 3.5 low level caster basically meant shooting with a crossbow.
Maybe 0 sp scaling cantrips would be a solution for DDO as well.
 

FaceDancer

Olde Wurm
New people are gonna have a hard enough time just getting used to the user interface, and figuring out where they are and where they should be going. This is a game that is not solo friendly if you are just starting out IMO. Ideally a person starting out has a buddy that is already invested to help walk them through some of the nitty gritty stuff and get them situated. I did, and it made a huge difference for me. Probably why I'm still with the game.

This is a game where knowledge is power IMO, and the more you know, the more competent you will be. That will take some time and patience (emphasis on that last one). You will be squishy for a time as you build up levels, funds, equipment, and knowledge.

Starting out with a caster is okay, just understand that you will run out of spell points and you will have to rely on other means to defend yourself (wizard needs food badly!)

I think people also aren't really aware that dying in game isn't the end of the world, and they shouldn't get too upset about it (I know I did initially). Dust off your pants and learn from the experience if you can. My main character just bit the big one last night because I just had to go and poke a green dragon with a stick... (Zardanarith in IOD) ?
 

Br4d

Well-known member
New people are gonna have a hard enough time just getting used to the user interface, and figuring out where they are and where they should be going. This is a game that is not solo friendly if you are just starting out IMO. Ideally a person starting out has a buddy that is already invested to help walk them through some of the nitty gritty stuff and get them situated. I did, and it made a huge difference for me. Probably why I'm still with the game.

I think the difference between DDO and most of the WoW-clones is too great to allow for a comfortable switchover. I've tried to do this a number of times, approaching the proposition from different angles, and most MMO players are not interested in the level of detail that DDO offers. They want a simple story to follow and easy access to grouping along that story line.

As the MMO player population ages this problem gets worse not better.
 

Coffey

Well-known member
I had brought in a coworker and lost track of him in Kobold Assault. When he finally surfaced again he said he was in a corner trying to get his mana back. I directed him to the shrine and we completed okay. But things like that are what set the game apart from the herd. Constantly generating your health and spell points just makes no sense to me. And thankfully we don't have a PnP version where you get x number of spells and when those are done you are done until resting.

Wizard: I have to rest, I used my Magic Missile.
The thing about SP usage is that some of the new players are turned off of DDO because of it.

The silly part of this game is that with past lives, better gear and character building choices you will have no problems with SP. And then there is reaper difficulty where dead mobs randomly vomit SP you can pick up that will replenish your reserves lol. So it becomes a non-issue later on but early on it is a major hurdle to having fun playing this game as a caster.
 
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