Why do so many ancient raids still have flagging?

[rabidfox]

Abbot flagging is boring, nothing says fun like running the same quest 4x times in a row. Story lines are fine and dandy to enjoy once, but if one wants to put together an Abbot or H. Shroud run at level, it's silly hard to get a group going.

 

[5 Other People]

100% support removing all flagging as it's keeps folks from grouping up to have fun.

As to the OPs comments about why we have the flagging, it's b/c this game is all about consuming time for it's player base. Consider the direction MD took game play, spaced out dungeons, spaced out slayer, fewer porting options, extra grindy rares...all designed to keep the user playing the game longer with less content development.

So, yeah it's easy to remove the flagging, but from a designers perspective you'd only want to do it if it would lead to the users spending more time playing...which is a tough equation. I think an argument can be made that many folks simply don't want to run the flaggers, but do want to run the raids, so it could be a net time gain for those folks, but for the folks who are doing the flagging it could be a net loss.

Meaning, if you want to get rid of flagging for the older quests, you need to stop running the flaggers and their raids and hope the development team removes the flags to re-energize old content.

Good luck!!

 

[danzig138]

I once watched a guy post an elite at-level Shroud LFM and wait for 4 hours trying to get it to fill. Never had more than 1 other person in it. When I asked him why he said he "needed the XP". The poor guy.

Fact is if heroic shroud had no flagging, that LFM would fill in 5 minutes. Any 16-19 players could pull it off, all the vets know it, and it is a lot of fun.

I play a lot of alts and I have many characters at various stages in green steel crafting that have gone nowhere for a good long time now because no one is really interested in flagging for and running the Shroud these days unless it's the occasional legendary run.

 

[Urklore]

As a side note, that Sharn chain mechanic and Lords of Dust chain mechanic kills me everytime. You cannot join a group in the middle of progress. So unless you can find a group that has just started, you are out of luck.

 

[Hakoist]

I have never run abbot, didn’t run H shroud for years. Sleeping dust is a real pain.
This would add two quest I would love to run, but I don’t think it’s gonna happen.

 

[IanMoon8]

but from a designers perspective you'd only want to do it if it would lead to the users spending more time playing...which is a tough equation.

But it would lead to more time spent playing because players would get to run these old raids again.

The problem right now: no one is slogging through the flaggers. Since no one is flagged, no one runs. People do other things. Often times that other thing is a better game. Removing the flaggers would lead to more time spent playing DDO. Its incredibly obvious.

Consider the direction MD took game play, spaced out dungeons, spaced out slayer, fewer porting options, extra grindy rares...all designed to keep the user playing the game longer with less content development.

And this kind of abuse design aesthetic is why I did not buy MD. If they keep going with it for the next level raise I won't be buying that, either. I'm also not buying the adventure pack that uses the same abusive loot mechanic as MD. The game is supposed to be fun. A hopelessly dull grind is not fun.

 

[Dalsheel]

What is with the triplebox comments?

I mean triple otto's box to get from 1 to 34.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

I mean triple otto's box to get from 1 to 34.

What does that have to do with anything related to this thread? I'll answer for you. Nothing.

Further, I'm guessing you've used otto boxes plenty of times if you have 2 triple everythings and one on the way. So Pot meet the kettle?

 

[IanMoon8]

So Pot meet the kettle?

Hey, you're stealing my catchphrase.

 

[kmoustakas]

A while back, DDO dropped the flagging requirements for The Lord of Blades and The Master Artificer. You also started releasing new raids regularly with no flagging requirements. This is awesome. Why not do the same for more ancient raids? The Shroud, ADQ, and especially Caught in the Web. There's all kinds of fun old raids I can see people pugging or even doing at level IF flagging were removed and doing them got easier.

First and foremost understand this thread is not about challenge, difficulty, story, or anything else. This is a proposition to make old raids FUN by dropping the flaggers and just letting us play.



Things not to reply to this thread with:

-Don't give me "Advice" on how to flag for raids. I know how to flag for raids.

-Don't tell me how you flag for raids. I don't care.

-Don't insist up and down flagging is "necessary". These raids are ancient. People solo them all the time.

-Don't mistake "flagging is boring" for "flagging is hard". If I meant to say flagging was hard, I would say flagging is hard. I am not. I am saying flagging is boring.

Let's see how well anyone stays on topic. Please be advised I will be replying "Woosh" to anyone who's head this concept flies over.

I like your post. I agree that overall flagging for either raids or quests is bad. Sharn sucks while feywild is awesome

 

[Dalsheel]

What does that have to do with anything related to this thread? I'll answer for you. Nothing.

Further, I'm guessing you've used otto boxes plenty of times if you have 2 triple everythings and one on the way. So Pot meet the kettle?

The reason ppl complain about flagging is because they want to triple box to 34 and run any raid they want without ever flagging.

As I said earlier, I play since 2006. My main toon was almost triple completionist (iirc it was 6 lives off) before MOTU came out.
There were no boxxes back then, each life required 500k more to cap, the game had less than half the quests it has now and the maximum potion was 20%. Back then, most ppl didn't even know what a completionist is.

Have I used boxxes? Of course I have. IoD preorder gave us 2 boxes. I wasn't going to trash them!

 

[Rusty_helmet]

The reason ppl complain about flagging is because they want to triple box to 34 and run any raid they want without ever flagging.

As I said earlier, I play since 2006. My main toon was almost triple completionist (iirc it was 6 lives off) before MOTU came out.
There were no boxxes back then, each life required 500k more to cap, the game had less than half the quests it has now and the maximum potion was 20%. Back then, most ppl didn't even know what a completionist is.

Have I used boxxes? Of course I have. IoD preorder gave us 2 boxes. I wasn't going to trash them!

The percentage of players who do that is very very small. There are WAY more quests than necessary out there to get to cap. I don't like to flag for shroud because those quests are a slog, but if I saw a group up for the raid, I'd hit it no problem.
Your anger toward "triple boxers" is downright hilarious. Who cares? Why do you care so much that they HAVE TO flag? By "them" not being able to join, then no one gets to actually run the raid, so your little conniption fit about them spites your own goal.

 

[Vox]

I must be the only person who enjoyed sleeping dust xD

It's an easy quest too, and the dm explains why the spiders need to be saved towards the end.

And it had more thought put in than just collecting crests.. to then collect more crests.

 

[IanMoon8]

I must be the only person who enjoyed sleeping dust xD

It's an easy quest too, and the dm explains why the spiders need to be saved towards the end.

And it had more thought put in than just collecting crests.. to then collect more crests.

I do see your viewpoint and I agree on some level. The best part about the Vale pack is how each quest has some interesting, unique mechanic. I remember being really impressed with it the very first time I played it.

Not so much after that, unfortunately. To me its not easy at all, I generally play AOE. I guess on a ranged or palemaster it wouldn't be soo bad.

But yeah, I can see why you like it.

 

[rabidfox]

The reason ppl complain about flagging is because they want to triple box to 34 and run any raid they want without ever flagging.

As I said earlier, I play since 2006. My main toon was almost triple completionist (iirc it was 6 lives off) before MOTU came out.
There were no boxxes back then, each life required 500k more to cap, the game had less than half the quests it has now and the maximum potion was 20%. Back then, most ppl didn't even know what a completionist is.

Have I used boxxes? Of course I have. IoD preorder gave us 2 boxes. I wasn't going to trash them!

Boxes really have nothing to do with anything other than distracting from people's concerns. I don't box; I like the leveling process. The last time I almost did H. Shroud at level was when I was in a party that did all of Vale and then moved on to shroud... except I joined the group 1 quest late and missed out on Coal Chamber. I didn't get to continue on with the party and have that fun just because of that.

 

[Vox]

I do see your viewpoint and I agree on some level. The best part about the Vale pack is how each quest has some interesting, unique mechanic. I remember being really impressed with it the very first time I played it.

Not so much after that, unfortunately. To me its not easy at all, I generally play AOE. I guess on a ranged or palemaster it wouldn't be soo bad.

But yeah, I can see why you like it.

precise shot, swf, acid spells can be AoE as the spiders are immune, there's a few ways do make it a better experience

But I do understand where you are coming from

 

[Nahual]

The thing with old raids and flagging is that the best items were in the raid. Then what is the reason to run flaggers if it isn't for flagging. VON s dont drop anything good.

This has changed now as crafting materials/item sets/filigrees drop from these quests.

I am for the no more flagging, the consecuences however (crafting naterials) become another contentious issue.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

The thing with old raids and flagging is that the best items were in the raid. Then what is the reason to run flaggers if it isn't for flagging. VON s dont drop anything good.

This has changed now as crafting materials/item sets/filigrees drop from these quests.

I am for the no more flagging, the consecuences however (crafting naterials) become another contentious issue.

Von chain gives bank space (house K favor) and good xp. I like running the raid but I would be able to run it more often if the flagging rules were changed

 

[IanMoon8]

I am for the no more flagging, the consecuences however (crafting naterials) become another contentious issue.

Two things: 1. the raids drop all those materials; 2. removing the flagging requirements would let people run the specific flaggers they like to farm for matts without having to do all of them.

Heroic Shroud still has all matts in the raid itself, save for the battle stones. People who need those can run them. I've got 50 clogging up my bag.

 

[IanMoon8]

Von chain gives bank space (house K favor) and good xp. I like running the raid but I would be able to run it more often if the flagging rules were changed

Everyone runs von3 because its amazing XP. Also drops a lot of the matts. People don't necessarily want the old raid items so much anymore, but running the raids themselves are fun.