Why does Dire Charge have to be so bad?

[Greywolf]

I am running racial lives, as Warchanter Bard. I decided to main tree Legendary Dreadnought. Second and Third trees, Shadowdancer and Unyielding Sentinel. Dire Charge seems to do nothing, pretty much outclassed by everything else in my rotation. I am using Celestial Mandate, for the first time, as my strike (it gets strikethrough and paired with Reed in the Wind, makes it easy to keep up Battle Guard).

I may try Dire Charge again after I get some of the upgrades for it, but as it stands now, probably the weakest melee strike by a wide margin.

 

[Willsave20]

I am running racial lives, as Warchanter Bard. I decided to main tree Legendary Dreadnought. Second and Third trees, Shadowdancer and Unyielding Sentinel. Dire Charge seems to do nothing, pretty much outclassed by everything else in my rotation. I am using Celestial Mandate, for the first time, as my strike (it gets strikethrough and paired with Reed in the Wind, makes it easy to keep up Battle Guard).

I may try Dire Charge again after I get some of the upgrades for it, but as it stands now, probably the weakest melee strike by a wide margin.

Its because its not Quick Cutter.

 

[Greywolf]

Its because its not Quick Cutter.

Quick Cutter is the universally better option, but not the only one that is better than Dire Charge.

Sword Sings
Drifting Lotus (if Ki build)
Consecration
Shadowstrike
Celestial Mandate (if THF)

Each either moderately, or vastly superior to Dire Charge.

 

[Willsave20]

Quick Cutter is the universally better option, but not the only one that is better than Dire Charge.

Sword Sings
Drifting Lotus (if Ki build)
Consecration
Shadowstrike
Celestial Mandate (if THF)

Each either moderately, or vastly superior to Dire Charge.

Pre nerf, Dire Charge was the go to melee CC, now its just dragonlord and QuickCutter quick kills

 

[Greywolf]

Pre nerf, Dire Charge was the go to melee CC, now its just dragonlord and QuickCutter quick kills

It was go-to when it was a feat, in addition to strike, no so much as a strike itself.

 

[drjoans]

yeah when they revamped the epic destiny system dire charge lost its place. It used to be on every single melee build. Getting hit with nerf bats can last years :/

 

[Willsave20]

yeah when they revamped the epic destiny system dire charge lost its place. It used to be on every single melee build. Getting hit with nerf bats can last years :/

The fact that you can't follow up with any meaningful strong epic attacks is it's biggest kick to the shin.

 

[Blaster]

At Dire Charge's base it does exactly what its descriptor says (per the Wiki):

Deals +40% Damage. Rush forward at the targeted foe, attacking it and all nearby foes. Affected enemies must make a Fortitude save (20 + highest Ability Score modifier + Stun bonuses) or be Sundered. 12 second cooldown. (Note: also greatly slows the movement speed of enemies struck for ~2 seconds.)

It's also usable as a 360-degree attack when not targeting an enemy (you'll basically strike everything standing around you). For one point for its it can be a good alternative to other attacks, but yeah if you're investing in Fury of the Wild, Quick Cutter is a better option (but requires three points for a full upgrade of its base version).

Upgrading Dire Charge fully adds trip and stun capabilities (to creatures vulnerable to one or another or both), but you have to have high enough DCs for those effects to work, but the damage will land regardless of enemy saves on the effects as long as your attack roll lands. Total point cost for Dire Charge upgraded is five points, as opposed to Quick Cutter which takes nine plus one core (ten total) to unlock its full capability. So it's all in points you want to spend.

That's not to say Dire Charge is a perfect attack. Getting DCs for the attack requires investing in tactics, specially stun, for all the effects to land. Targeting can be an issue. Sometimes you can go flying off towards a breakable rather than enemies, or the flight path of the charge can take a weird round-about path to get to where it's going. It's best used aimed at the ground in a group of enemies for a 360-degree attack, but again, it's not always perfect.

Like anything in the game, it's all in how you use it and knowing what it is and is not capable of. Like everything there's alternatives. Some better, some worse. It's all in what you want to do and what you want to invest where in order to get what you want. If you're not a build that can invest in tactics, then it's not much use other than a 360-degree attack that's cheaper at base than some alternatives, but has tricky targeting.

 

[woq]

Dire Charges best usecase to me seems to be when used in conjunction with Adrenaline or Sword Sings - so you have a singletarget dps option for bosses / sturdy red names / dooms from one of those two, and an AoE option for when you need CC for trash - and specifically on weapon styles that also have access to strikethrough so they have some form of damage to follow up the helplessness in AoE if you give up drifting lotus / quick cutter /...

It's still a bit hard to justify for most builds and I think it could do with buffs and even better if it was just... not a charge. It's quite hard to justify for anything other than niche scenarios, but it is not bad for twohander soloing once you get used to not targeting stuff when using it to guarantee it doesn't send you to the moon.

 

[Greywolf]

I am not sure that the "if tactics" argument holds water. If tactics, then you have some heroic tactics stuff too, and my Frozen Fury and Spinning Ice are sitting at +12 versus Dire Charge.

 

[Willsave20]

Dire Charge is just pure utility for your party at this point. The best utility in the game currently is killing the mob before it touches you. I could see it being useful when surrounded, but why stun something I can just kill with quick cutter?

 

[Jaspar]

Roar, QC and Baphomet's Reign gets you way more than Dire Charge.

 

[kmoustakas]

I am running racial lives, as Warchanter Bard. I decided to main tree Legendary Dreadnought. Second and Third trees, Shadowdancer and Unyielding Sentinel. Dire Charge seems to do nothing, pretty much outclassed by everything else in my rotation. I am using Celestial Mandate, for the first time, as my strike (it gets strikethrough and paired with Reed in the Wind, makes it easy to keep up Battle Guard). I may try Dire Charge again after I get some of the upgrades for it, but as it stands now, probably the weakest melee strike by a wide margin.

Well in the previous destiny system it was incredible even casters were using dire charge back then. So they "balanced" it by castrating it.

 

[Greywolf]

It's still a bit hard to justify for most builds and I think it could do with buffs and even better if it was just... not a charge. It's quite hard to justify for anything other than niche scenarios, but it is not bad for twohander soloing once you get used to not targeting stuff when using it to guarantee it doesn't send you to the moon.

I am trying it again, with the Momentum Swing upgrade, feels a little better. I am also targeting myself before clicking it, and it lands way better that way. With a mob targeted, it is basically a coin flip whether it goes off at all, very frequently just animation and movement but zero damage. Unfortunately F1 + Strike is not a very fun ability.

 

[The Blonde]

I am trying it again, with the Momentum Swing upgrade, feels a little better. I am also targeting myself before clicking it, and it lands way better that way. With a mob targeted, it is basically a coin flip whether it goes off at all, very frequently just animation and movement but zero damage. Unfortunately F1 + Strike is not a very fun ability.

Using Dire Charge without a macro to always press those keys together is masochism

 

[Greywolf]

Using Dire Charge without a macro to always press those keys together is masochism

I setup a mouse macro for it, pretty cool, thanks.

 

[Quartis]

Its a Utility/Support/CC skill and the base is kinda weak. Sadly like many epic strikes in Epic Destiny the hard CC is locked in higher tiers in the tree together with high Saves in Epic/Legend not useful for many.

 

[Frantik]

Hi, imho FotW T4 (Primal Force) to max damage on Quick Cutter is where you want to be, so i'd go full T5 in FotW. There is no reason you cannot use two Epic Strikes; US Cleave is 6 sec CD (with Battle Guard stacks lasting 12 seconds; i've never used this) and Quick Cutter is an 8 sec CD, so you could balance damage and defence. Unless BF or WF I'd keep Shadow Dancer and grab T3 Shadowstriker.

 

[Rage]

Is quick cutter better with TWF?

 

[Quartis]

no, quick cutter uses the big spin animation which does not fit in normal attacking and only uses main hand weapon. dire charge also is not good for attack animation either.