Why is there so much sonic in new tree?

Haff

Member
Why put sonic into the drive builds when there are 0 (ZERO) rune arms that do sonic damage?
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
1) Because EDs are meant to appeal to multiple elements. So it's another sonic related tree.
2) Sonic runearms were on lam. They're coming with u61.
 

Haff

Member
I was hoping there might be some sonic based rune arms coming. Just played Lam for 1st time a few days ago because I love my Arties, so had not seen them. Thanks for the info.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
The sonic blast runearm was buggy when I tried it; had zero range, so you didn't miss much by not trying it this last lam. Hopefully it's working nicely for lam 3.
 

Ying

Well-respected member
You might have missed the livestream or the post where Steelstar explained it. Essentially, there's a design intent for each spellpower to be represented in three ED trees. For example, sonic and electric are represented by two currently: Draconic and Fatesinger. Machrotechnic will be the third.

And none of the seven new rune arms were working. They all had various problems, but Steelstar did mention they have now been fixed.
 

cocopufff

Well-known member
You might have missed the livestream or the post where Steelstar explained it. Essentially, there's a design intent for each spellpower to be represented in three ED trees. For example, sonic and electric are represented by two currently: Draconic and Fatesinger. Machrotechnic will be the third.

And none of the seven new rune arms were working. They all had various problems, but Steelstar did mention they have now been fixed.
They definitely have their work cut out for them on that one, since AFAIK, Light is only really represented in one. I guess they could always add it to draconic as well.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
Then when are they going to add some stripping so some of these might actually be viable
 

Arkat

Founder & Super Hero
Then when are they going to add some stripping so some of these might actually be viable
Adding resistance stripping was a huge mistake by the Devs.

Not every caster toon should be able to defeat every monster with their element of choice. Allowing such only encourages soloing instead of grouping up.

Now it feels like the Devs are obligated to provide a method to strip elemental resistance for casters of every sort of element, including sonic casters.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
Then add melee ranged immunes in game cuz balance

All it does is make the casters that can't not viable like hitting your head against a wall you can do it but are you getting anywhere
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
They definitely have their work cut out for them on that one, since AFAIK, Light is only really represented in one. I guess they could always add it to draconic as well.
Light has spellpower granted by Primal (heart)
so one more tree fits the spellpower paradigm and it will likely be in the thematically Warlock epic destiny.
I'm really hoping for an evil element epic strike in that tree.

Adding resistance stripping was a huge mistake by the Devs.

Not every caster toon should be able to defeat every monster with their element of choice. Allowing such only encourages soloing instead of grouping up.

Now it feels like the Devs are obligated to provide a method to strip elemental resistance for casters of every sort of element, including sonic casters.
Personally I feel immunity stripping as a concept is fine but the implementation is not.
Also inter-element balance is in an awful place overall where the elements which don't typically need a bypass (Light/Force/Sonic) have weaker spell selections than those that do but those that do get bypasses typically anyway so they're just stronger by a disgusting margin with no real downside unless you're playing warlock or wizard.

The classes that get immunity stripping practically get it for building and playing how they would want to anyway and I see this as a problem, bypassing immunities should have a cost rather than just being something you pick up as you build your character to be as powerful as possible.
Personally I would just give each element a feat option for dealing with immunities, it's by far the fairest option.

Say a quick 'lore friendly' example of what such a feat could be
"Hellfire Infusion
Your fire element spells and damage are suffused with hellfire and like hellfire ignore fire immunity"
 
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Retsam

New member
Seems like making a metamagic that converts half the damage/all (selector) to another type would remove the need for immunity stripping, lower caster damage across the board due to immunity stripping being gone (no neg value resists stacked with debuffs) and give the devs more options because it is now a players choice which element they use.


Source: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/elemental-spell-metamagic/
Originally from the Pathfinder - Advanced Players Guide 2010 PG. 158/159

Elemental Spell (Metamagic)​

You can manipulate the elemental nature of your spells.

Benefit: Choose one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. You may replace a spell’s normal damage with that energy type or split the spell’s damage, so that half is of that energy type and half is of its normal type.

Level Increase: +1 (an elemental spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time you must choose a different energy type.
 

vryxnr

Well-known member
You might have missed the livestream or the post where Steelstar explained it. Essentially, there's a design intent for each spellpower to be represented in three ED trees. For example, sonic and electric are represented by two currently: Draconic and Fatesinger. Machrotechnic will be the third.
Wait wait wait... Sonic is being added to the Draconic ED?
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Wait wait wait... Sonic is being added to the Draconic ED?
It should've been listed as:
Sonic= primal + fatesinger
Electric = Draconic + primal
and the this new tree will be sonic + electric = 3rd tree for both types.
 
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Ying

Well-respected member
Yeah my bad. There's some overlap with sonic + electric in Dragonborn, and I mistakenly thought it was the same for Draconic Incarnation. @rabidfox posted the correct info.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Yeah my bad. There's some overlap with sonic + electric in Dragonborn, and I mistakenly thought it was the same for Draconic Incarnation. @rabidfox posted the correct info.
Hehe, I just edited mine, but I even got my original correction wrong; I put electric being drac+fate when it's drac+primal. =) Silly easy mistakes to make.
 

NightHiker

Well-known member
It should've been listed as:
Sonic= primal + fatesinger
Electric = Draconic + primal
and the this new tree will be sonic + electric = 3rd tree for both types.

Technically there's also some support for sonic in Shiradi as well, with the mantle upgrades (even though it did get nerfed to smitereens, it's still there). So it actually has support on 4 trees now.

Cheers,
NH
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
Technically there's also some support for sonic in Shiradi as well, with the mantle upgrades (even though it did get nerfed to smitereens, it's still there). So it actually has support on 4 trees now.

Cheers,
NH
quite different
what the devs have stated is they want spellpower for each offensive element to be present in 3 trees, shiradi has only force and the generic universal.
 
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