Wild Dragon Build

[h46av8r]

ADDENDUM: See build outline a few posts below. Thanks to @saekee for pointing me to his forum conversation with @Tilomere - link to that is below.

ADDENDUM2: See below that for how it all worked out - BLUF: loved it.

Theory-crafting how I might get immunity stripping, some extra spell power, and few extra caster levels on a Dragon Disciple build. One big advantage being only having to gear for one type of spell power, crit, etc. on top of all the melee stuff.

- I am a racial completionist so have the AP to go up the Chaosmancer tree for said immunity stripping. Thinking Acid since Autumn gives Wisdom and less things are immune to acid. And I have the gear from prior GOO warlock builds.
- Of course multiclassing sacrifices the capstone and a few DD spells but planning to still spend about 40 AP in the DD tree for all the Tier 5's.
- Then 24 in Wild Mage to get the caster level equal to character level, no bad or very bad surges, a couple points of wisdom, and the spell crits.
- Rest into Earth Savant taking the acid spell crits and up through core 3.

So that means at least DD 12, WM 6 - thinking last two levels in WM for DDoor spell - so ultimately DD12WM8.

Not set on Epic Destinies yet - but I hate not being able to self-heal so maybe Primal Avatar for the Cacoon, some acid spell power and +1 DC, and a couple more points of Wisdom seems to make sense. The other two trees probably melee, one being the obvious GMoF. But Draconic Incarnation might make sense (especially thematically). But then I think I really start to sacrifice melee power having two non-melee trees.

Quarterstaff for the melee part. Taking Swords to Plowshares, IC:Bludgeon, and THF line of feats, of course. Plus Grand Master of Forms. Maximize and Empower.

Ultimately this whole melee / caster hybrid thing makes me nervous since usually doesn't go well in DDO - but that seems to be the thrust of DD so figured I'd give it a shot.... Thoughts?

 

[saekee]

the caster melee hybrid build I have been playing is my take on the ki bolt monk. I do not have the link
to Tilomere’s threads but check them out for ideas.

 

[h46av8r]

the caster melee hybrid build I have been playing is my take on the ki bolt monk. I do not have the link
to Tilomere’s threads but check them out for ideas.

Thanks Saekee - I am reading through that thread now - a lot of good info in there to digest. Good ideas on proc'ing the DI mantle on ki bolt and other ki spells as I understand it. But ki bolt requires Henshin Mystic which DD won't have. But same idea should work on the DD SLAs right? In which case maybe I should indeed try the DI mantle.

 

[saekee]

Thanks Saekee - I am reading through that thread now - a lot of good info in there to digest. Good ideas on proc'ing the DI mantle on ki bolt and other ki spells as I understand it. But ki bolt requires Henshin Mystic which DD won't have. But same idea should work on the DD SLAs right? In which case maybe I should indeed try the DI mantle.

I am not sure honestly. Ki bolt has some insane stacking with Draconic mantle, making it a lot of fun albeit limited.

I think you might get around it by mixing in Sacred Fist levels with dragon disciple since you are looking into Chaosmancer.

I like pure monk NOT for the dps or trees but for fast movement and abundant step. It is a pain to play other toons after flying around on a capped monk, and that is without the GMoF mantle.

 

[h46av8r]

Hmmm- So I could take 4 SF, i.e. DD12 WM4 SF4 for the ki bolt (plus some pally saves). Give up the two WM core 3's.

Or.... Confirmed on my Cormyr toon - level 27 warlock - that the DI mantle and dot proc on the ES aura. And procs arcane warrior, too. So I was leaning toward DD12 WM6 War2 - but you can't be a GOO monk because of the alignment restrictions - bummer...

But if the spells, SLAs, epic destiny breath weapon are decent then maybe I'll be casting those enough that the warlock ES aura wouldn't do much anyway since the mantle can only proc once every 5 sec i.e. it will be proc-ing off the SLAs and spells anyway. In which case the SF ki bolt idea makes more sense. Just "manually" proc arcane warrior with the spell casting and q-staff swinging. Ruin, GRuin with max/empower/intensify. Gonna go build that....

 

[h46av8r]

Okay - here is the build outline I am going to go with when DD drops this week. Not full build planner details since Maetrim is still working on the latest DD details but you should get the idea. Again, thought process was how to get immunity stripping (without sacrificing caster levels) so you only have to gear for one spell power on top of all the melee and defensive stuff. So Chaosmancer for the immunity strip, Wild Mage to get CL = Char Level, Sacred Fist for Ki bolt, a couple healing hands, some saves and immunities, Sacred Defender stance.

Did some testing on Lamannia with some thrown-together gear. Not getting Tilomere numbers (see https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...issiles-and-ruin-make-muggle-monks-moan.7714/) but pretty good. Most of the damage came from the spell casting / DI mantel DOT so the build below reflects that. You cast SLAs (max'd, empowered, intensified, quickened) including the immunity strip, debuffing and proc'ing the DI mantle and Arcane Warrior, then whack away with quick cutter to keep the ki up while doing decent additional damage. Repeat as needed. Throw ki bolt and PL:Wiz magic missiles in there.


----- Wild Dragon Build -----

Dragon Disciple 12 / Wild Mage 4 / Sacred Fist 4

Leveling order (to get all the feats in):
WM SFx2 WMx2 DDx6 WM DDx6 SFx2


ABILITY SCORES

STR 12 (need tomes for the THF feats)
DEX 12 (could take 4 here for 2 more Con)
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 18
CHA 10

All plus ups to Wisdom


FEATS

1 - Maximize
3 - Empower
6 - Quicken + (Monk) Two Handed Fighting
7 - Swords to Plowshares
8 - Path of Harmonious Balance
9 - PL: Arcane Initiate
11 - (Monk) Precision
12 - IC:Bludgeon
15 - Improved Two Handed Fighting
18 - Grand Master of Forms (Ocean Stance)
21 - Greater Two Handed Fighting
22 - Doublestrike
24 - Intensify
25 - Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 - Ruin
28 - Arcane Warrior
30 - Greater Ruin + Scion of the Plane of Earth
31 - Pierce Adamantine (or Inspiring Bond of solo with hirelings)
33 - Wellspring of Power
34 - Titan's Blood


SKILLS

- Primary: Concentration, Spellcraft, Balance, UMD
- Secondary: Heal, Intimidate and/or Diplomacy (situational)
- Tertiary: Search, Move Silently and Hide (if you like sneaking occasionally),

(You are an multi-class iconic so use the builder to optimize skill point spend.)


SPELLS

- I'll have enough stuff to do in the rotation (WM Tier 4 immunity strip, DD breath SLAs, GRuin/Ruin, ki bolt, etc.) without needing the DD breath spells so probably WM and DD spells will go to displacement, elemental weapons, resist energy, shield, invis, etc. Will likely rely on a hireling for deathward and eternal flask for FoM.


ENHANCEMENTS
If you don't have the Racial AP then either give up the immunity stripping or take those AP out of the Earth Savant tree.

- Eladrin Chaos Mage - 17 AP - 4 cores, Fey Step + 2 extra, then straight up the Autumn line.
- Dragon Disciple - 37ish AP - all the goodies up through Tier 5 - probably can skip the Tier 1 SLA
- Wild Mage - 22 AP - 2 cores, no bad or very bad surges, +9% spell crits, +1 Wis, Mixed Magics
- Earth Savant - 12 AP - 2 cores for +2 CLs, Erosion, +6% acid spell crits
- Sacred Defender - 6 AP - 2 cores for Sacred Defense Stance (can't be raged) with +15 PRR/MRR, 1 extra LoH
(could instead go Sacred Fist for the core 2 lawful and good bypass - TBD).
- Feydark Illusionist - 3 AP (since I have a couple universal AP - Illusory Weapons for oozes and rust monsters


EPIC DESTINIES

- Draconic Incarnation 38 AP - all cores, black bloodline of course, enhanced mantle for the DOT, +3 imbue dice, DCs, double implement bonus, Tier 5s (esp second GRuin tick)
- Fury of the Wild - 24 AP - all cores, Quick Cutter, Cold Iron bypass, some PRR, Embrace the Pain, +25% strikethrough, Primal Scream (tripled)
- Primal Avatar - 14 AP - three cores - start with fire then acid so get uncapped dodge and double damage from Reborn in Fire, Cacoon, +2 Wis/Cha/Int, Natural Shielding
(Could go Unyielding Sentinel. Here I'm taking the DCs, spell power, Cacoon, +2 Wis vs. melee power, renewal, LoH = Char Level, etc. But probably will try both and see...)


GEAR

- I have not planned out the gear set yet but I expect to craft a dinobone Q-staff with Sparkscale(Silver), Flamefang(Good), Iridiscent Claw: Acid, and, critically, Flamehorn for the MRR and spell power debuff. Probably slot a couple 9d6 rubies to help with the actual melee damage.


OTHER NOTES

- Ocean Stance for the +4 Wisdom and 40% standing dodge
- Displacement, solid AC, solid PRR, decent MRR from the DD Tier 5 and Nystuls, etc.
- Wisdom to hit and damage, Wisdom battle trance, doublestrike action boost.
- Full THF line, IC:Bludgeon, Swords to Plowshares, +1 crit range and +1 crit multi. 16-20/x3.
- Should have decent end game hireling buffs (past lives, Augment Summoning (slotted), Inspiring Bond (Feat), Natural Shielding (Primal Avatar) - have found they hold up pretty well (R1-R4) and can self-res in order to throw me an occasional heal - don't do any real damage in reaper, of course.

 

[Terranigma]

Wouldn't that 12 Dragon Disciple/4 Wild Mage/4 Sacred Fist benefit more from going with Handwraps, being it should have +30 Melee Power from having 6 stacks of Unarmed Strike? I thought Melee Power was something relatively fundamental to the Ki Bolt build (the net +20 Melee Power over Perfect Two Handed Fighting should outweigh the Implement bonus from Draconic Incarnate Conduit to Quarterstaves)?

 

[h46av8r]

Wouldn't that 12 Dragon Disciple/4 Wild Mage/4 Sacred Fist benefit more from going with Handwraps, being it should have +30 Melee Power from having 6 stacks of Unarmed Strike? I thought Melee Power was something relatively fundamental to the Ki Bolt build (the net +20 Melee Power over Perfect Two Handed Fighting should outweigh the Implement bonus from Draconic Incarnate Conduit to Quarterstaves)?

In this build I guess I am giving up 20 MP from Unarmed Strike since I'll only get 4 stacks with 12 DD levels - getting back 10 from pTHF as you state - so net 10 MP. But mostly about THF AoE for more mob clearing since that is what you spend 90% of your time doing in DDO.

 

[Terranigma]

In this build I guess I am giving up 20 MP from Unarmed Strike since I'll only get 4 stacks with 12 DD levels - getting back 10 from pTHF as you state - so net 10 MP. But mostly about THF AoE for more mob clearing since that is what you spend 90% of your time doing in DDO.

4 stacks of Unarmed Strike come from Dragon Disciple (levels 1, 4, 8, 12). 2 stacks of Unarmed Strike come from Sacred Fist (levels 1, 4). If you were willing to switch the AP from Sacred Defender to Sacred Fist's Enhancement Tree, the combo of Quick Cutter and Exalted Whirlwind may be adequate for your AoE melee needs.

 

[h46av8r]

4 stacks of Unarmed Strike come from Dragon Disciple (levels 1, 4, 8, 12). 2 stacks of Unarmed Strike come from Sacred Fist (levels 1, 4). If you were willing to switch the AP from Sacred Defender to Sacred Fist's Enhancement Tree, the combo of Quick Cutter and Exalted Whirlwind may be adequate for your AoE melee needs.

Oh - got it - unarmed strike from SF also. Don't see myself doing handwraps but certainly others could swap out those THF feats and make this a handwrap build. I certainly will give Exalted Whirlwind a try - was thinking SF tree might be good also for the core 2 Lawful + Good bypass anyway.

 

[Draco]

Looks like an interesting build, wish the chaosmancer iconic was available to purchase atm... You'll have to let us now if it's fun at least
I wonder if you've considered longsword+orb (probably both dino bone) for more damage/spellpower etc and more room for item sets. You do give up both the meleepower of handwrap and the thf/strikethrough of a staff. And would have to get the longsword centring from GMoF...
Edit: This gives me the idea of bastard sword+orb, but that requires T5 kensai which, other than being a different build entirely, probably isn't worth it

 

[Kodewraith]

I'm goign to give this a whirl as soon as I can figure out how to get through the 15/5 Pali/DL life.

 

[Sol]

I threw this together when I had a chance to see the stuff in game (brain works better with visuals on trees).

Spoiler: 16 DD / 4 WM

Dragon Disciple 16 / Wild Mage 4

Max WIS, put level ups in WIS
14 INT
Put the rest into CON

Skills:
Balance (single weapon fighting)
Concentration (improves Ki pool AKA improves how much you can dump into spells)
Jump
Spellcraft (improves spell damage)
Heal (improves healing (??? unsure if healing hands and healing shield scale with spell power)

Feats:

1 - Maximize
1 (monk) - Single Weapon Fighting
2 (monk) - Spell Focus: Evocation
3 - Empower
6 - Quicken
6 (monk) - Greater Spell Focus
9 - Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12 - Offhand Versatility
15 - Improved Critical: ???
18 - Greater Single Weapon Fighting

Enhancements:

-- Dragon Disciple (36 AP) --
Core 1
Core 2
Core 3
Core 4

Heart of the Dragon
Lesser Draconic Burst
Power In Practice
Draconic Devotion I

Acolytes Breath
Power Begets Power
Discipleship I

Draconic Burst
Draconic Devotion II
Clear Your Mind
Ability Score: Wisdom

Secret Power
Discipleship II
Draconic Devotion III
Ability Score: Wisdom

Draconic Devastation
Peace in Destruction
Perfect Disciple
Shining Scales
Flawless Breathing

-- Shintao Monk (15 AP) --
Core 1

Shintao Studies I
Fast Hands (Rank 2)

Shintao Studies II
Iron Skin

Shintao Studies III
Hands of Mercy
Fists of Light


-- Wild Mage (18 AP) --
Core 1

Chaos Control I
Student of Chaos I

Chaos Control II
Student of Chaos II
Tides of Chaos II

Student of Chaos III

Unstable Sorcery: Mixed Magics

-- Air Savant (11) --
Note: Feel free to remove the Shintao Enhancements and move them here if you want more blasting power, I just like utility and self sufficiency. Just note the SLAs scale with your CHA and not your Wisdom, so take enhancements that improve your Draconic Disciple power. Additionally, choose a different Savant if you picked a different element.

There is an argument to go 6 Sorc for another core + drop Shintao entirely, just make sure you have enough BAB for Greater Single Weapon fighting

Core 1
Core 2

Spell Critical: Electric I
Electrocution

Spell Critical: Electric II
Alternating Current (Rank 2)

I'm sure you can drop levels of Monk for Wild Mage (14/6) or drop levels of monk for another class but I didn't check and make sure the BAB works for SWF. Lots of flexibility depending on if you want more melee, more casting, ect, ect but Dragon Disciple and Wild Mage complement each other on any split that wants to maintain the spellcasting focus on the SLAs so well. If only WM got to keep EK (no reason why it can't honestly).

 

[Draco]

I threw this together when I had a chance to see the stuff in game (brain works better with visuals on trees).

Spoiler: 16 DD / 4 WM

Dragon Disciple 16 / Wild Mage 4

Max WIS, put level ups in WIS
14 INT
Put the rest into CON

Skills:
Balance (single weapon fighting)
Concentration (improves Ki pool AKA improves how much you can dump into spells)
Jump
Spellcraft (improves spell damage)
Heal (improves healing (??? unsure if healing hands and healing shield scale with spell power)

Feats:

1 - Maximize
1 (monk) - Single Weapon Fighting
2 (monk) - Spell Focus: Evocation
3 - Empower
6 - Quicken
6 (monk) - Greater Spell Focus
9 - Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12 - Offhand Versatility
15 - Improved Critical: ???
18 - Greater Single Weapon Fighting

Enhancements:

-- Dragon Disciple (36 AP) --
Core 1
Core 2
Core 3
Core 4

Heart of the Dragon
Lesser Draconic Burst
Power In Practice
Draconic Devotion I

Acolytes Breath
Power Begets Power
Discipleship I

Draconic Burst
Draconic Devotion II
Clear Your Mind
Ability Score: Wisdom

Secret Power
Discipleship II
Draconic Devotion III
Ability Score: Wisdom

Draconic Devastation
Peace in Destruction
Perfect Disciple
Shining Scales
Flawless Breathing

-- Shintao Monk (15 AP) --
Core 1

Shintao Studies I
Fast Hands (Rank 2)

Shintao Studies II
Iron Skin

Shintao Studies III
Hands of Mercy
Fists of Light


-- Wild Mage (18 AP) --
Core 1

Chaos Control I
Student of Chaos I

Chaos Control II
Student of Chaos II
Tides of Chaos II

Student of Chaos III

Unstable Sorcery: Mixed Magics

-- Air Savant (11) --
Note: Feel free to remove the Shintao Enhancements and move them here if you want more blasting power, I just like utility and self sufficiency. Just note the SLAs scale with your CHA and not your Wisdom, so take enhancements that improve your Draconic Disciple power. Additionally, choose a different Savant if you picked a different element.

There is an argument to go 6 Sorc for another core + drop Shintao entirely, just make sure you have enough BAB for Greater Single Weapon fighting

Core 1
Core 2

Spell Critical: Electric I
Electrocution

Spell Critical: Electric II
Alternating Current (Rank 2)

I'm sure you can drop levels of Monk for Wild Mage (14/6) or drop levels of monk for another class but I didn't check and make sure the BAB works for SWF. Lots of flexibility depending on if you want more melee, more casting, ect, ect but Dragon Disciple and Wild Mage complement each other on any split that wants to maintain the spellcasting focus on the SLAs so well. If only WM got to keep EK (no reason why it can't honestly).

I was contemplating a really dumb 12dd/4wm/4wiz for ek as well, but the ap split would be impossible

 

[Sol]

I was contemplating a really dumb 12dd/4wm/4wiz for ek as well, but the ap split would be impossible

I was considering some blightcaster to make a poison or acid DD, but yeah, the AP is pretty tight. Thornkin/Hive Keeper + Some SLAs seemed fun... Bee Dragon?

Spoiler: Bee Dragon

Dragon Disciple 12 / Wild Mage 4 / Blightcaster 4

Max WIS, put level ups in WIS
14 INT
Put the rest into CON

Skills:
Balance (single weapon fighting)
Concentration (improves Ki pool AKA improves how much you can dump into spells)
Jump
Spellcraft (improves spell damage)
Heal (improves healing (??? unsure if healing hands and healing shield scale with spell power)

Feats:

1 - Maximize
1 (monk) - Single Weapon Fighting
2 (monk) - Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration (take Conjuration if Acid Dragon Disciple spells are Conjuration)
3 - Empower
6 - Quicken
6 (monk) - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation/Conjuration (whatever you took for the first Spell Focus)
9 - Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12 - Offhand Versatility
15 - Improved Critical: ???
18 - Greater Single Weapon Fighting

Druid Feats:
Wild Shape: Biting Acid
Hive Keeper

Enhancements:

-- Dragon Disciple (36 AP) --
Core 1
Core 2
Core 3
Core 4

Heart of the Dragon
Lesser Draconic Burst
Power In Practice
Draconic Devotion I

Acolytes Breath
Power Begets Power
Discipleship I

Draconic Burst
Draconic Devotion II
Clear Your Mind
Ability Score: Wisdom

Secret Power
Discipleship II
Draconic Devotion III
Ability Score: Wisdom

Draconic Devastation
Peace in Destruction
Perfect Disciple
Shining Scales
Flawless Breathing


-- Wild Mage (18 AP) --
Core 1

Chaos Control I
Student of Chaos I

Chaos Control II
Student of Chaos II
Tides of Chaos II

Student of Chaos III

Unstable Sorcery: Mixed Magics

-- Blightcaster (26 AP) --
Core 1
Core 2

Prickly
Sharp Edges I

Deflied Growth
Melf's Acid Arrow
Sharp Edges II
Every Rose Has It's Thorn

Enveloping Swarm
Sharp Edges III
Ability: Wisdom

Acid Rain
Sharp Edges VI
Ability: Wisdom

 

[h46av8r]

So I am really enjoying this build. Going Chaosmancer and splashing Wild Mage for Mixed Magics worked great - only had to gear for acid and conjuration on top the melee and defenses. Fabulous to R1 level (starting from level 15 as an iconic) with plenty of AoE. Never had an issue with Ki or spell points. The quarterstaff (Power Begets Power enhancement) and Ocean Stance generates Ki fast while doing good damage and plenty of lost souls for the spell points.

Usual attack sequence was Autumn Decay SLA to strip immunity / add vulnerability to acid. Then Draconic Devastation SLA and Acolyte's Breath SLA (and then spell version also if so desired). Then jump in, Quick Cutter, (tripled) Primal Scream, swing a few more times, repeat. If fighting a boss, of course light off Wellspring and Doublestrike and Reapers Strike Action boosts. Melee a bit to stack more MRR debuff then hit with GRuin / Ruin.

Ki bolt is a nice ranged option when you need it (rarely) + Arcane Initiate magic missiles + even caustic bolt and chaos bolt (capped CL17) if you so desire. Ultimately you could probably skip the Sacred Fist levels and give up ki bolt but, again, it does give you a nice ranged option that procs the DI mantel and adds to saving throws and gives you a basic defensive stance - and, again, because of Mixed Magics you don't sacrifice caster level.

Acid spell power - 1170 standing in reaper including Max/Empower/Intensify which work on all the SLAs/spells including GRuin/Ruin. Plus another 100 most the of the time from full stacks of Arcane Warrior. Another 150 with Wellspring up so 1420-ish all in. Two extra caster levels from Earth Savant so CL29 (Autumn Decay capped at CL27).

Q-staff 16-20/x3 Adamantine, Cold Iron, Evil, Magic, Byshek, Crystal bypasses + acid imbue scaling with spell power. Doublestrike standing is 55% but DS Action Boost + Reaper's Strike boosts it to 115%. 210% strikethrough. Melee power sitting at about 200 (including Arcane Warrior) so good not great. 3 AP into Feydark Illusionist for the Illusory Weapon imbue with Shadow for oozes and rust monsters.

Gear - I just grabbed prior wisdom monk gear and swapped out a couple items to fit in acid spell power and crit. I lost some PRR and +3 ability scores from breaking a set bonus. No quality wisdom. So sitting at 93 wisdom in reaper - good not great. Not optimized gear and no raid gear or dual filagrees. I did dinobone craft a quarterstaff primarily for the MRR debuff. Meltfang, Meltscale, Flamehorn, Iceclaw with 9d6 acid and shock slotted. +6 Wisdom from weapon and artifact filagrees plus some other goodies like some melee power, heal amp, doublestrike, etc. Crit chance only 50% and crit multiplier 34% - those need work but still was taking mobs down fast soloing R4 at end game.

In epics / at end game, you actually have very good self healing. I have decent fire spell power from gear (Legendary Cinderfingers) so doubled Reborn in Fire provides a full heal to you and your party. Plus Cacoon for routine healing. Self healing is mostly non-existant in heroics but you hardly get hit during R1 leveling.

Defenses very good - layered defenses so while not a tank also not a glass cannon. Between 37% and 42% standing dodge (fluctuates with the Wild Mage Lucky Dodge enhancement), evasion, displacement, ghostly, saves over 100, 238 AC, 264% fort, 212 PRR, and 80 MRR (which is not bad for a monk not using Nystuls filagree set). Between 24 and 31% elemental absorptions. About 3600 HP in reaper.

Quality of life is also nice as a caster - self-healing, shield, protection from evil, resist energies. I did have to rely on a hireling to cast deathward on me. FoM via an eternal flask when needed. You are a monk so fast. One nice surprise - the Wild Mage Mixed Magics also applies to buffs - so where usually casting a spell from your splash class has to be refreshed often, here you get the full duration.

At the end of the day this is probably not the best R10 solo build - but great for solo leveling and R4+ end game soloing. Ultimately you do have to make some gear compromises and choose either caster or melee ED trees - I went two spell power ED trees and one melee - so you're not max'ing either spell power or melee power at the end of the day. It felt a bit like a warlock with respect to leveling, i.e. awesome, but not the fastest boss takedowns.

Final note, you could easily switch to, say, handwraps or scepters by taking the TWF feats instead of THF. Again, this build really benefits from those racial AP. And the past lives and reaper points help of course.

https://imgur.com/a/7m3eqfA

https://imgur.com/a/mIM9cCv

 

[Tilomere]

ENHANCEMENTS
If you don't have the Racial AP then either give up the immunity stripping or take those AP out of the Earth Savant tree.

- Eladrin Chaos Mage - 17 AP - 4 cores, Fey Step + 2 extra, then straight up the Autumn line.
- Dragon Disciple - 37ish AP - all the goodies up through Tier 5 - probably can skip the Tier 1 SLA
- Wild Mage - 22 AP - 2 cores, no bad or very bad surges, +9% spell crits, +1 Wis, Mixed Magics
- Earth Savant - 12 AP - 2 cores for +2 CLs, Erosion, +6% acid spell crits
- Sacred Defender - 6 AP - 2 cores for Sacred Defense Stance (can't be raged) with +15 PRR/MRR, 1 extra LoH
(could instead go Sacred Fist for the core 2 lawful and good bypass - TBD).
- Feydark Illusionist - 3 AP (since I have a couple universal AP - Illusory Weapons for oozes and rust monsters


EPIC DESTINIES

- Draconic Incarnation 38 AP - all cores, black bloodline of course, enhanced mantle for the DOT, +3 imbue dice, DCs, double implement bonus, Tier 5s (esp second GRuin tick)
- Fury of the Wild - 24 AP - all cores, Quick Cutter, Cold Iron bypass, some PRR, Embrace the Pain, +25% strikethrough, Primal Scream (tripled)
- Primal Avatar - 14 AP - three cores - start with fire then acid so get uncapped dodge and double damage from Reborn in Fire, Cacoon, +2 Wis/Cha/Int, Natural Shielding
(Could go Unyielding Sentinel. Here I'm taking the DCs, spell power, Cacoon, +2 Wis vs. melee power, renewal, LoH = Char Level, etc. But probably will try both and see...)

I like this, but probably will swap the FI and SaD and some ES for Shintao healing hands. I had heard that sacred fist ki bolt only has 200% melee power scaling compared to monk 300%, can you confirm?

 

[h46av8r]

I like this, but probably will swap the FI and SaD and some ES for Shintao healing hands. I had heard that sacred fist ki bolt only has 200% melee power scaling compared to monk 300%, can you confirm?

If you try something similar, please do let me know how it goes. As to your question, I just spent some significant time with the cargo hold training dummies...

Disclaimer: I am not a DPS calculation expert - just learning - but I did sanity check my methods using some of the calcs in your above mentioned thread
https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...issiles-and-ruin-make-muggle-monks-moan.7714/ and by checking the wiki.

BLUF: As best as I can tell the damage scales with 200% melee power - both base Ki Bolt damage and the DI Mantel Proc. Here are the calculations and numbers I used which match what I am seeing pretty well. Check me on what "scales with 300% melee power" means. Normal MP scaling is (1 + MP/100) e.g. 100 MP doubles your damage. 200% and 300% MP scaling would be (1 + 2*MP/100) and (1 + 3*MP/100), respectively. See https://www.reddit.com/r/ddo/comments/as03lf
First, I believe when DDO says you get 1d6 base damage per caster level and you have 27 caster levels, that means it really rolls 1d6 27 times. It does NOT roll a 1d6 once and multiply by 27. The upshot of that is a much narrower range of expected values. The latter would give you a range between 1x27 and 6x27, i.e. between 27 and 162. The actual range of numbers is much narrower - more like [3 to 4] x27, i.e. between 81 and 108. In other words, the chances of rolling 27 1's or 27 6's in a row is vanishingly small. Just pop open Excel, use 1+5*rand() 27 times and take the average. Do that like 100 times / columns. Plot the distribution (tends to a normal distribution) - 3 to 4 will cover most of the results with the average centered on 3.5 of course.

So here are the numbers and calculations I used (again, training dummies i.e. outside reaper mode) which pretty well matched what I was seeing. There were some minor confounders like Flamehorn and Arcane Warrior going off...


----- Ki Bolt -----

Min/Ave/Max 3/3.5/4 (not actually a hard min or max here - more like maybe 1 to 2 standard dev type numbers per above)
CL 27
MP 180
MP Scaling 200%
Fire/Force Crit Multiplier 19%
**Note the combat log definitely states "Spell Crit! Your Ki Bolt has greater effect!" i.e. it appears Spell Crit Multiplier is used on crit even though base ki bolt damage is scaled by MP.

So Min/Ave/Max = [3/3.5/4]x(27)x(1+2*180/100) = [373/435/497] On Crit x(2+19/100) = [816/952/1,088]

You get this twice - 1d6 force AND 1d6 fire per caster level. Still, the actual Ki Bolt is not going to be the main part of your damage... But it has proven a strong (double) ranged option proc'ing the mantel at distance since the DDM and Chaosmancer SLAs are all fairly close range.

Also, I took off a bunch of gear to reduce MP for another data point - still a better match to the 200% MP calculations.


----- DI Mantel Proc (Acid) -----

Min/Ave/Max [3/3.5/4] + 6
CL 27
MP 180
MP Scaling 200%
Acid Crit Multiplier 34%
Acid Spell Power 978
**Note you can't max/emp/intens ki bolt - so proc damage should be higher on DDM SLAs, Chaosmancer SLA, etc. - this of course assumes the mantel proc uses the spell power (and caster level, crit multi, etc.) of the spell used to proc it.

So Min/Ave/Max = [9/9.5/10]x(27)x(1+2*180/100)x(1+978/100) = [12,050/12,719/13,389] On Crit x[2+34/100] = (28,197/29,763/31,330)

Recall this will proc 4 times. Crit'ing at least half the time. And can be refreshed every 5 seconds. And will be higher on the SLAs assuming max/emp/intensified. Not min/maxed gear (especially spell crit multiplier). Melee power is probably limited on this build since you can't take three martial EDs.

I will caveat this all by saying though not 100% clear - the spread in numbers I was seeing was a bit wider than I expected. Nor did I record and average hundreds of hits - just sort of looked to see whether the numbers were more consistent with the 200% or 300% numbers - it was clearly the former presuming my calculations are correct.

Hope this helps - was a good learning exercise for me.