Wild Mage

[Fisto Mk I]

Iconic WM is the new DG Necro Illusionist PM.

Are you sure that without 2 PK SLA it be good Illusionist? 8)

 

[Tilomere]

Are you sure that without 2 PK SLA it be good Illusionist? 8)

Sorc cooldowns, casting speed, and mana pool with Wizard DCs. Let me, uh, test this for science!

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

One of the things I like a ton about Wild Mage is DDO finally has us making difficult choices on whether to split or stay pure. Yes, it gives you a fantastic option for splitting using character level vs caster level, but the level 20 SLA is incredible - probably the best SLA in the game, so you are sacrificing a lot by multiclassing. Excellent class design, I hope we see more of this going forward.

 

[Livmo]

One of the things I like a ton about Wild Mage is DDO finally has us making difficult choices on whether to split or stay pure. Yes, it gives you a fantastic option for splitting using character level vs caster level, but the level 20 SLA is incredible - probably the best SLA in the game, so you are sacrificing a lot by multiclassing. Excellent class design, I hope we see more of this going forward.

I went pure caster with CHA. I totally feel that as I reflect eating this stack of hot cakes. Anyone know where I can find Caro Pancake syrop with the green label? Maple is OK, but I'm having a high fructose corn deficiency.

Otherwise I'm having allot of fun playing Wildmage. I did the heroic, ER'ed, then racial TR'ed. I don't understand the +1 to Listen and probably should have TR'ed for the sorc past life feat. I'm currently at L15 with the same toon doing the Iconic. I liked the heroic tree better as I don't need DEX per se on this build.



EDIT ~ Evil Bay and Jungle website are my only 2 choices and both are highway robbery, https://www.amazon.com/Karo-Pancake-Syrup-Green-Label/dp/B0007SNZP2

Would be willing to trade in-game items for the green.

 

[Tesrali (sam-u-r-eye)]

With race it is 3.5 universal DC higher than any other sorc tree race/class combo, and 2.5 universal DC higher than FI, the prior top sorc build?

3.5 DCs are not worth 2s Deflect arrows for how I enjoy the game.
I couldn't get into druid for that reason---they're just way squishier than Sorc/Wiz.

 

[mikarddo]

WM41+FI24+Harper12 vs. Savant41 + EK 31+ harper8

WM is 2 Cha higher than any savant or EK = 1DC
T5 -2+1d6 = 1.5DC higher than any savant or EK or FI
Spring on iconic is .5 DC higher than any other race
Iconic FDI 24 + Harper 12+ is another 3 cha = 1.5DC over EK 31 +harper 8

Total of 4.5 DC higher

Since it has no high level spells or itemization dps synergy, that makes it a necro illusionist tree. Racial scorch will bypass fire immunity to allow magma to function when you need dps. Iconic WM is the new DG Necro Illusionist PM.

If you want deflect arrows I would do:
41 Savant, 33 EK, 8 Falconry, 18 Dragonborn (11 cha, 3 conj/evoc dc)
or
41 Savant, 33 EK, 8 Falconry, 18 Chaosmancer (13 cha) which costs a lesser heart.
33 in EK is for +15% hp in addition to deflect arrows 2s. Falconry for runspeed boost.

if you want dc but not wild mage I would do:
41 Savant, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Dragonborn (14 cha, 4 evoc dc, 3 conj dc)
or
41 Savant, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Chaosmancer (16 cha, 1 evoc dc) which costs a lesser heart.

With Wild Mage:
41 Wild Mage, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Dragonborn (16 cha, 3 conj/evoc dc, 1.5 avg dc)
or
41 Wild Mage, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Chaosmancer (18 cha, 1.5 avg dc)

The major diffences are:
WM is +4 cha core 6 compared to Savant +2 cha.
WM has 1.5 avg dc i T5 where Savant only has +1 evoc.
CM has +1 dc (spring) compared to Dragonborn +3 conj/evoc.

 

[PraetorPlato]

If you want deflect arrows I would do:
41 Savant, 33 EK, 8 Falconry, 18 Dragonborn (13 cha, 3 conj/evoc dc)
or
41 Savant, 33 EK, 8 Falconry, 18 Chaosmancer (15 cha) which costs a lesser heart.
33 in EK is for +15% hp in addition to deflect arrows 2s. Falconry for runspeed boost.

if you want dc but not wild mage I would do:
41 Savant, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Dragonborn (16 cha, 4 evoc dc, 3 conj dc)
or
41 Savant, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Chaosmancer (18 cha, 1 evoc dc) which costs a lesser heart.

With Wild Mage:
41 Wild Mage, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Dragonborn (16 cha, 3 conj/evoc dc, 1.5 avg dc)
or
41 Wild Mage, 24 FI, 10 Falconry, 7 Harper, 18 Chaosmancer (18 cha, 1.5 avg dc)

Nowhere is there a 4.5 dc difference. The biggest is +4 dc but only +1 for conj/evoc. I think you overlooked that Harper does not give cha in T3 only int and dex.

The actual differences wrt to DC are that Chaosmancer is +1 dc from spring bonus but at a loss of 3 conj/evoc dc compared to Dragonborn and that Wildmage T5 has the 1.5 avg dc extra where Savant only has +1 evoc dc i T5.

Wildmage capstone is also +4 cha instead of 2, so it's net -2 flat DC +1d6 from a non-WM split before considering racial choices.

 

[mikarddo]

Wildmage capstone is also +4 cha instead of 2, so it's net -2 flat DC +1d6 from a non-WM split before considering racial choices.

Ahh, yes. I forgot that Savants are only +2 cha capstone. Going back to fix that, thank you.

But, does that not mean that its a -1 + 1d6 for WM compared to Savant as you gain 2 cha + the random T5?

 

[Tilomere]

The major diffences are:
WM is +4 cha core 6 compared to Savant +2 cha.
WM has 1.5 avg dc i T5 where Savant only has +1 evoc.
CM has +1 dc (spring) compared to Dragonborn +3 conj/evoc.

And FDI is 1 DC over EK which is no longer available.

4.5 DC

 

[mikarddo]

And FDI is 1 DC over EK which is no longer available.

4.5 DC

FDI only uses 24 points leaving another 7 for +1 cha more compared to 31-33 in EK. So, its actually +5dc if you compare Sav+EK+Harper (or Falconry)+Dragonborn with WM+FI+Falconry+Harper+CM (only +2dc for conj/evoc though).

 

[EinarMal]

FDI only uses 24 points leaving another 7 for +1 cha more compared to 31-33 in EK. So, its actually +5dc if you compare Sav+EK+Harper (or Falconry)+Dragonborn with WM+FI+Falconry+Harper+CM (only +2dc for conj/evoc though).

Personally to me pure DC caster is just a low leverage build unless you can do something else. Most of the most difficult mobs are immune. So you are really good at killing easy targets that DPS would have killed 1s later anyway.

Solo ability is also on the poor side. Which is huge for farming gear etc.

 

[Dandonk]

I played the new Iconic from 15-26, and another just from 15-17.

Let's go with the second one first. That one was trying to do mostly chaos spells. Which quickly got annoying, since there were few of them, and the chaos sphere is just a level 3 spell.

Anyways...

The Good:
Wild Strike is good single target damage.
Damage added on color spray and prismatic stuff is nice.

The Bad:
Good wild magic effects seem pointless on lower reaper, at least. They might be more useful on higher reaper, but as you can count on them (the point of it being wild), I'm not sure it's that great a thing.
Bad effects are really, really annoying. I quickly respecced to eliminate them.
Fear effects (from prismaric, I guess) are stupidly annoying.
Cost of the tree is high.
Chaos sphere has alchemist throwing vial animation. Very annoying.
Chaos blot is really slow.

The Meh:
Sure, I get a lot of surges. But I rarely notice what they do, and they last so short a time that I don't even manage to check out and read the tooltip. It's just a graphic that happens. (Unless it's the big boom that kills everything, of course, even I noticed that)

Conclusion:
Sure, the idea is fun. And as a secondary tree, it adds some more DPS, which is cool. But I feel it needs something more to be useful as a primary tree.
(For me, anyway. I have to admit I'm not an uber endgame caster player)

 

[mikarddo]

Personally to me pure DC caster is just a low leverage build unless you can do something else. Most of the most difficult mobs are immune. So you are really good at killing easy targets that DPS would have killed 1s later anyway.

Solo ability is also on the poor side. Which is huge for farming gear etc.

I tend to agree. My current Sorc setup is a mixed dc/dps build as I like that alot. I can dc in most situations in R10 with some fails here and there but I can also dps very well in R6 or lower (solo or shortman, often to farm gear) and I can dps some in raids or R10s.

I do play, though, to try a pure dc build for a few lives running WM/CM to try how that works. I still expect to be able to steamroll R1 quests farming gear and to be able to contribute very meaningfully with dc in R10s and R1 raids. But overall I agree that pure dc with no dps is too limited - or atleast I assume so before having tried it


I suppose it may depend on how hard raids you run and what kind of group(s) you usually run with / get when doing R10s.

 

[Mokune]

Currently @ level 11 on a Mixed Magic Chimera (2Monk/4WM/5Alchemist) for 2nd Eladrin RPL. For reference my defenses are really good with 87 RP,3xR,H,E, most iconics and archetypes. Even if the build is bad it's still.
INT/CHA, Con, Dex. Level ups in INT.
Did 2 monk first, TWF/Dodge/Mobility
3-6 Sorc, Maximise @ 3, Quicken @ 6
7-11 Alch, Emp @ 9, Alch Bonus:Emp Heal Spell
Starting APs in Racial for Vigor and Displace, the rest in Harper for KTA and INT hit/dam. Next 22 points into WM working towards Mixed Magics.
Swapped all points from Harper to FDI when I got 2 Ranks in Prismatic Mind.
With 22 points in WM, 12 in FDI I then build Apothecary working towards T5s.

Sorc Spells: Sonic Blast, Electric Bolt, Color Spray, Hypnotism and Web
Current Alchemist Spells: Elemental Skin, Lesser Evolution INT, Cure Lt Admixture, Cold Spike and Greater Venom Vile

SLAs
Vigor
Displacement
Inflict Light Wounds
Chaos Bolt
Chaos Orb
Greater Color Spray

It's weird but it plays. Great saves, great AC, just under 30 dodge. DPS is lower than any pure Monk, Sorc or Alchemist at the same level but it has awesome utility. Backup melee with Q-Staff or HW using FDI Cha hit/dam.

 

[Tilomere]

So race + enhancements are 4.5 DC (taking deflect from VKF)

Testing/Looking at the Shiradi Chaosmancer necro illusionist other DCs differences vs. traditional draconic dps build
Heroics Necro Focusx2 2 DC instead of Evo/Misc
Lvl 20 Shiradi Mantle (Curse on Meteor) 4 DC over Draconic Mantle
Lvl 20 Ottos + Beholder 4 DC over Coalesced + Elemental
Lvl 20 Reaper Hat 1 DC over Spell Crit/Multiplier hat (Elder's set)
Lvl 21 Arcane Insight 2 DC over Wellspring <<< Verified point a Shiradi Chaosmancer Necro Illusionist does fair in legendary R10

Spoiler: R10 testing.[

Mid 80s DCs are all you need for R10, If you have have good enough awareness and reflexes to play with whatever defensive stats you have while getting these DCs. I don't have the skills to do this consistently with the defensive stats at level 21, but I can do it enough to show it can be done.

Lvl 24 Embolden 2 DC over Intensify << Verified point at which a Shiradi Chaosmancer Necro Illusionist does well in legendary midsckull reaper Sagas and starts to top the kill meters
Lvl 26 Shiradi Mantle (Track on Meteor) 4 DC over Draconic Mantle << Math says this is the: point at which a Shiradi Chaosmancer Necro Illusionist does well in legendary highskull reaper
Lvl 27 Necro Focus3 1 DC instead of Ruin
Lvl 30 Charisma instead of GRuin .5 DC
Lvl 30 + 20 Scion of Necro + Magus instead of DPS/SD CDR 2 DC
Lvl 31 Illusion Mastery instread of Spell Power/Multiplier
Lvl 31 Exceptional Spell Focus Mastery Staff 2 DC over two debuff sticks or offhand insightful radiance orb


The difference between the traditional Draconic Dragonborn Savant + EK and Shiradi Chaosmancer Necro Illusionist grows from 4.5 DC in heroics (22.5% difference in chance to land a spell) to 29 DC (145% chance to land a spell) with epic and legendary levels.

The DC difference by level 24 is 19.5 DC which is roughly equal to 6.5 levels of character development. This allows a lvl 24 Shiradi Chaosmancer Necro Illusionist to walk into legendary midskull reaper and perform the DC functions a level 30 draconic + EK regular sorc would perform and start to take over the kill meter.

Spoiler: R4-6 Sharn testing.[

A lot of people say they don't like Magus or Shiradi, but I find both of them combined works very well.

Math says the extra DCs from Track at level 26 will allow the sorc to perform DC functions at +23.5 DC or 8 levels over a traditional Draconic Savant + EK sorc, which puts it at a level 34 traditional sorc DC casting. At this point it will surpass DC casting of even a capped traditional sorc and be capable of casting in any content on any difficulty.

 

[mikarddo]

So race + enhancements are 4.5 DC

Lvl 20 Shiradi Mantle (Curse on Meteor) 4 DC over Draconic Mantle

Lvl 26 Shiradi Mantle (Track on Meteor) 4 DC over Draconic Mantle << To be tested: point at which a Shiradi Chaosmancer Necro Illusionist does well in legendary highskull reaper

Interesting, thank you. I currently play a mixed dps/dc sorc so I have most of the dc already at some cost in dps - but it is interesting to see a lineup that is more fully committed to dc even if it means gutting dps. A few comments and questions.
I believe race + enhancements is 5 dc as 24 FI vs 33 EK leaves points for 1 more cha in another tree (falconry or harper) as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Casting MS as the first spell on every mob has quite an opportunity cost so taking that as a full 4 dc value is being overly optimistic. Often I will want to open with Mass Hold, or I will just want to IK 4 archers standing seperately and certainly dont have time to MS each of them. Further, four 25% chances do not make a 100% chance but a 1-0.75^4=0.68 = 68% chance to land curse, and that does not include the risk of the mob saving assuming only an actual "hit" adds the curse. I would say that counting the value of this curse from MS / other spells at more than 1.5 dc is being unrealistic and 1 dc seems more right to me as an average value.

Does track in Shiradi have an undocumented featured that lowers mob saves? I only see ac and fort reduction. Please educate me

 

[mikarddo]

Further, Draconic 10% cooldown reduction, Shadow Dancer 10% cool down reduction and Primal 1 dc from 2 cha are competitors for the 3 ED slots - so taking Shiradi comes at a cost. Sometimes spell cool down reduction will effectively add more "dc" than a few more dc

Thats even before considering the "dc" value of having wings from EA to survive better, say being chained in a veng circle or having to outrun a doom.

I like the fact that there seem to be actual options to consider The choices to be made a neither easy nor clear which is good.

 

[voenixa121]

I play my dc wizard with shiradi+shadowdancer. Basically have to because I can't get my DC higher than ~100 yet. That was always what shiradi is best at.

Does track in Shiradi have an undocumented featured that lowers mob saves? I only see ac and fort reduction. Please educate me

It does indeed reduce saves by 1 for every stack. So -4 if hitting with all meteors.

 

[mikarddo]

I play my dc wizard with shiradi+shadowdancer. Basically have to because I can't get my DC higher than ~100 yet. That was always what shiradi is best at.

It does indeed reduce saves by 1 for every stack. So -4 if hitting with all meteors.

So, Track reduces saves by 10 if you reach max stacks? On the wiki it says that it reduces ac and fortification and that it stacks 10 times - but unless I am overlooking something which is certainly possible it does not mention reducing saves.

Track: Dealing damage to enemies reduces their Armor Class by 1 and Fortification by 2%. Stacks up to 10 times.

 

[voenixa121]

So, Track reduces saves by 10 if you reach max stacks? On the wiki it says that it reduces ac and fortification and that it stacks 10 times - but unless I am overlooking something which is certainly possible it does not mention reducing saves.

Track: Dealing damage to enemies reduces their Armor Class by 1 and Fortification by 2%. Stacks up to 10 times.

Unfortunately the wiki is wrong on this case. I just looked in game to be sure and the tooltip says that it does reduce saving throws.
And yes, it is very strong.