Wizard/Rogue (18/2) PM - first time in Epic content - what spells do you cast?

[Kirilh]

Hi old hands!

As a first-timer I have some questions born of inexperience:

1. What spells to you guys casts at red/purple named bosses? Please give me a list of what you use
(I have read the 'Named Monster' thread on the ddowiki and found myself wondering if anything other than damage spells works). I would love to debuff them, and cast something other than pew pew. What works?

2. Does Obscuring Mist work on mobs that have True Seeing?
(I am wondering i this first level spell is worth reviving to my list)

Thanks everyone!

 

[vik]

1. Cloudkill. Mainly for the concealment but also for an additional source of damage (not great but helps).
2. Waves of exhaust/ray of exhaust/ray of enfeeblement: one of those three for a strength penalty up to 10 points. I don't think ability penalties stack. This is so melee red-names don't hit as hard.
3. Contagion, Blinding Sickness: this does strength damage. This is for melee red-names as well. If you can afford the level 4 slot for it.
4. Bestow Curse: lowering saves is good so you do more damage. I've tried symbol of pain but it doesn't trigger consistently when enemies run through it.
5. Symbol of Stunning: cast it wherever mobs spawn near the boss. Gives you a little extra time to deal with them.

To answer your second question: according to the wiki it does work against mobs with true seeing. It has a lousy duration though compared to cloudkill.

 

[Tanyajanfel]

my first time into epics as a caster, i noticed my dc's sucked, and everything was saving, especially on a 18-2, or anything thats not pure, (maybe no past lives?) but it may depend on what difficulty you are doing.

1. Solid fog. mainly for the -5 penalty to their reflex save, (also slows movement by 40%, and 20% concealment)

2. enervation/necrotic ray. negative levels (for anything not death warded, which can be hit or miss for red/purple names) is nice for damage, and getting other spells to land. sometimes insta-kill doesn't work, but when tag teamed with enervation, it does.

3. suggestion. or any other charm. if you cant get the red/purple name, maybe you can get one of the other monsters next to it. anything to distract it from you while you debuff it.

its alot of fun to find out what works and doesn't. good luck with the drow.

 

[Dandonk]

Conjure bolts

Anyway, I tried an archmage. Good enough for levelling. Used force spells on him to see if it worked. It was OK (for levelling, as stated), but was fairly pointless at cap.

 

[Anurakh]

Wizard works well in leveling and in the cap. It's true that it needs love in the cap, but that doesn't mean it's useless. My wizard is a T5 archmage, PM Casptone.

For red nameds, I mostly use level 9 spells. Iceberg, Thunderstuck, Rend the Soul, and Acid Well are all very good; prioritize based on your highest spellpowers and quest immunities. Level 8 spells, Arcane Tempest (open combats with that spell before starting with nukes) and Black Dragon Bolt (a good dot) or Polar Ray (depending on the quest). Level 7 spells, Delayed Fireball. Level 6 spells, Necrotic Ray. Enervation SLA can be used as an additional dot. At high epics and legendary levels, I incorporate Arcane Pulse and the two Ruins. I use disintegrate against constucts until I get ruin at lv 27 (and forget it after that). I take the Draconic Mantle and the Tier 5 Draconic (with ruin intensified) linked to Cold, but I have the Primal Mantle linked to Acid to bypass immunities.

You shouldn't have any problems with Red Nameds leveling epics on low difficulty. The developers don't support multi-element casters well, so being competitive on High Reaper Legendary depends on working really hard on your gear.

In future lives, consider the pure wizard class. It's much more powerful.

 

[Thwart]

Grease. Only grease.

 

[Deamon81]

Conjure bolts

Anyway, I tried an archmage. Good enough for levelling. Used force spells on him to see if it worked. It was OK (for levelling, as stated), but was fairly pointless at cap.

Conjure Arrows is better, I build a 18/2 Elf Mage with Longbow and Undead Palemaster and used the Bow of Elements Air OK also a bit of Horizon Walker

 

[Mokune]

Wand Cast Ice Storm in your Solid Fogs and other Cloud based for added mob slowness.

 

[Anurakh]

2. Does Obscuring Mist work on mobs that have True Seeing?
(I am wondering i this first level spell is worth reviving to my list)

I forgot to answer this. Yes, it works.

 

[Kutalp]

It is about the content of the quest and the length of the quest. Also about the Hardness setting of the quest (if it prevents forther rest or not)

Long story short, distracting with bait summons and pet when casting Conj aoe is one way. This also needs Evoc or Necro spells if the npcs get out. Although there is still some Acid based ones for the end game, the majority of the better damage spells with various versions are under School of Evocation, Sadly.( Fun killer )

Spamming physical attacks after casting aoe conj or evoc spells or Enchant/Illus is another but requires item swap or investment to Physical feats.

If you are sure you wont be out of SP , and the Power of your DC/Spell Pen, you can cast Mass Hold, Enchant and Dots.Instant kill Spells from Necro/Illus. (But it is all repeating the same couple of spells which is dull)



No save required spells such as specific Dots works anywhere.

The point is Devs had changed the gameplay so much through a decade that spamming Physical autoattacks with a Frontloaded character is the easiest (But the most boring) way when casting remains the most fun way because of animations and the effects.


True seeing lets you or the npc bypass Blur, Displacement.


Have fun.

 

[Anurakh]

(I have read the 'Named Monster' thread on the ddowiki and found myself wondering if anything other than damage spells works). I would love to debuff them, and cast something other than pew pew. What works?

None of them really work. Wiz/sorc debuff spells haven't been modernized for the modern game, so they don't impact useful stats like PRR or MRR. You can lower saving throws by lowering stats, but the recovery from stat damage at epic levels is so high that it's usually not worth it. Bosses are immune to fatigue, negative levels, and generally every negative effect on the wizard/sorc list.

Usually, wizards debuff bosses with gear or ED-derived effects. (check shadowdancer or exalted angel for that) Yes, it's sad. But the devs have neglected both buff and debuff spells, worrying only about updating damage spells (and the clouds themselves remain unupdated). Most of the buffs are also very outdated, completely overshadowed by analogous stats on gear or nullified by the properties of epic/legendary bosses.

 

[vik]

None of them really work. Wiz/sorc debuff spells haven't been modernized for the modern game, so they don't impact useful stats like PRR or MRR. You can lower saving throws by lowering stats, but the recovery from stat damage at epic levels is so high that it's usually not worth it. Bosses are immune to fatigue, negative levels, and generally every negative effect on the wizard/sorc list.

Usually, wizards debuff bosses with gear or ED-derived effects. (check shadowdancer or exalted angel for that) Yes, it's sad. But the devs have neglected both buff and debuff spells, worrying only about updating damage spells (and the clouds themselves remain unupdated). Most of the buffs are also very outdated, completely overshadowed by analogous stats on gear or nullified by the properties of epic/legendary bosses.

I would agree that debuff spells aren't great, but they do have an effect (for red names not purple). OP was asking for spells that he could cast besides DPS. Tested with DQ elite yesterday. Before I was taking around 80-100 damage a hit from the Marilith. After casting ray of exhaustion (ability penalty) I believe I was taking 3 less damage per hit, as the hits were in the 80s-90s afterwards. I didn't test blinding sickness but you could be right that ability damage heals so fast it's not worth it. I will test some more; blinding sickness is a dot so it might be reapply frequently enough to counter the ability healing.

I don't know a great way to test curse/symbol of pain for save debuff but I assume it works as you can see the debuff if you inspect the boss.

 

[Anurakh]

I would agree that debuff spells aren't great, but they do have an effect (for red names not purple). OP was asking for spells that he could cast besides DPS. Tested with DQ elite yesterday. Before I was taking around 80-100 damage a hit from the Marilith. After casting ray of exhaustion (ability penalty) I believe I was taking 3 less damage per hit, as the hits were in the 80s-90s afterwards. I didn't test blinding sickness but you could be right that ability damage heals so fast it's not worth it. I will test some more; blinding sickness is a dot so it might be reapply frequently enough to counter the ability healing.

I don't know a great way to test curse/symbol of pain for save debuff but I assume it works as you can see the debuff if you inspect the boss.

Stat damage applies to bosses, but on epics it recovers so quickly that it's basically not worth the mana expenditure in most circumstances. Especially if you're a solo caster, stay far away from the boss and deal damage to kill it quickly. You'll finish it off faster than if you lower its strength.

 

[vik]

Completely agree with your comment about ability damage and ability penalties: it is not very useful in most circumstances. But I would argue reducing saves is worth the time to cast it, especially if your DCs are low. Otherwise you're wasting mana when the boss saves vs. your damage spells.

 

[Hobgoblin]

don't forget dots. they are DPS but no save usually and let's you continue to move

 

[Mokune]

Spells Hypnotism, Hypnotic Pattern apply a -4 will save Debuff @ caster level 10 called Weakened-Will.
Crushing Despair, Daze Monster and Touch of Idiocy apply a -6 Will save Debuff @ level 20+ called Vulnerable-Will.

Not sure if they stack.

 

[Kirilh]

Thank you all for your replies.
I have read them carefully and am going to amend my spell preparation.
As a relaitve-n00b I am very grateful for your wisdom, it will save me a a lot of trail and error.
Cheers!

 

[Sturmbb]

Thank you all for your replies.
I have read them carefully and am going to amend my spell preparation.
As a relaitve-n00b I am very grateful for your wisdom, it will save me a a lot of trail and error.
Cheers!

Please let me know how it goes. im thinking of running a wizard next, but im a bit wary of the sp limitations of the class. (it will be staying at cap (if i get there) so if it is struggling id rather not bother running one).

 

[Br4d]

Pale Trapper (18/2) should probably have a melee focus to go to for long fights. You get extra HP from the melee feats. You have to stay on the move while meleeing although often you can stop the movement and haste boost if you have it when everything but the boss is dead.

Right now SWF is probably the best focus although TWF has it's merits also if you have two weapons that can debuff.

As to casting I use Acid Well (hits almost everything), Thunderstroke (seems to be highest single-target damage), Arcane Tempest (always fight in this when it is not on cooldown), Necrotic Ray, Polar Ray and my epic strike. For clearing trash Meteor Swarm supplements Acid Well.

If you have the necessary prime stat and Spell Penetration then Trap the Soul and Finger of Death are both good to have. Take the Enlarge metamagic and both become swift killers at a distance.

If you have to kite your epic strike is likely to be a saver. The only mob I have issues kiting sometimes is the T-Rex in Isle of Dread. He hits so hard that even a small lag spike will kill me.