WoTC President wants a new D&D MMORPG

[AlimonyJFMSU]

Maybe get the existing one smoothed out first lol

 

[paddymaxson]

DDO is 3 editions old. They want a modern game based on the modern rules.

A 5E PnP play would log into DDO and be completely lost.

Even a 3.5E NWN2 fan would be lost in DDO, it's deviated in the extreme from the ruleset, but I think that's good because he ruleset actually sucks for an MMO. It's a very non-interactive game for anyone except spellcasters when running in realtime and as we saw in early DDO even switching to spell points made spellcasting a nightmare because every spell of the same level had the same SP cost so casting all your buffs would eat half your SP bar.

$E was weirdly good for an MMO because it felt sort of like they'd tried to make MO mechanics for tabletop (and failed, it made the game tedious). 5E might be a happy middleground I guess.

I'd love a really good D&D MMO to be honest, I don't think that needs to threaten DDO as DDO is a very specific game that no new MMO would try to ape.

I'd prefer a pathfinder one though.

 

[Rage]

What if they moved in the direction of more interactivity and role-play and less a number crunching game.

That is to say they build a true living breathing world or city where you can become the shopkeep or blacksmith or tavern wench of Baldur’s Gate instead of an NPC, the combat and numbers are there but the feel and even the concept of the game is totally different.

The goal here is to best play your role, acquire XP through other player interaction, and go on quests organically. Which means quests are generated on the fly purely between two or more players. It’s that when you were a kids playing with other kids scenario (some younger millennials and zoomers may not understand), the “hey Tom I bet you couldn’t last 3 minutes inside that abandoned graveyard behind dead jack’s place”.

Anyway, maybe the tech isn’t there yet or with AI now the tech is just beyond the horizon. Who knows?

 

[J1NG]

What if they moved in the direction of more interactivity and role-play and less a number crunching game.

It's simply not possible to do this with any of the tech right now. Baldur's Gate 3 which is one of the pinnacles of variations and Role Play, has scripts and links that would make your eyes bulge from the first few starting points alone. Also, players don't want to Role Play without the number crunching aspect, so that's out too because of that.

Anyway, maybe the tech isn’t there yet or with AI now the tech is just beyond the horizon. Who knows?

The tech simply isn't there. And it's not even remotely close to just beyond the horizon. Not for a MMORPG anyway.

J1NG

 

[Rage]

It's simply not possible to do this with any of the tech right now. Baldur's Gate 3 which is one of the pinnacles of variations and Role Play, has scripts and links that would make your eyes bulge from the first few starting points alone. Also, players don't want to Role Play without the number crunching aspect, so that's out too because of that.



The tech simply isn't there. And it's not even remotely close to just beyond the horizon. Not for a MMORPG anyway.

J1NG

I think with AI I simply don’t think this is true any more.

I mean I understand where you’re coming from. We’re all old gamers now and being old gamers we may have a tendency to kind of see the world through past experiences more so than future possibilities.

But AI can on the fly generate new experiences for the user, perhaps tweaking it a bit here and there.

So for example you, Tim the enchanter and a Paladin friend meet at the Wayward Lobster. You over-hear literally another player talking about an abandoned well in the middle of Cloakwood forest. They find it strange that a giant stone well would be built in the middle of the woods with no other buildings or homes in sight.

You listen on these other players and think the same and decide to investigate that afternoon (after work).

Well you, Tim and the paladin end up at the well and lo and behold you see those other players at the well to. You get into an argument on who has “first dibs” on climbing in and exploring and to cut to the chase some PvP occurs. Your group wins.

Up to this point, tech is not an issue. But the neat part is that the game actually generated that well being there, a permanent fixture of the landscape until it was stumbled upon by some players. Now a basic backstory is generated as soon as players decide to climb in (all on the fly created/generated by AI), as players progress down the well more in-the-moment decisions are made by the AI, is it just a well? Or is it the secret side entrance to an expansive 120 layer dungeon that’s currently being explored by thousands of players accessing it through the Yawning Portal Inn?

As a player, the world seems alive, there is nothing redundant or repetitive any more. Even the developers have no idea where the story leads from here on out furthermore, the players could just decide to block the well and destroy it or if they are truly hardcore, enter the well then block it behind them. You can’t really do these things with a static “on rails” game but you could with AI as the game will adapt and even understand what you are trying to do.

In fact, it’s the closest to what a live DM would be like if they were conducting a classic pen and paper campaign.

 

[J1NG]

I think with AI I simply don’t think this is true any more.

You're giving current AI too much credit.

I mean I understand where you’re coming from. We’re all old gamers now and being old gamers we may have a tendency to kind of see the world through past experiences more so than future possibilities.

I developed the stuff before current AI that current AI has foundations on, so I'm quite aware of how stuff is going, but I'm also aware of where the flaws are and when current "End Users" think AI can do something when in fact they can not.

But AI can on the fly generate new experiences for the user, perhaps tweaking it a bit here and there.

In fact, it’s the closest to what a live DM would be like if they were conducting a classic pen and paper campaign.

For a single player at best, and even then it's not there yet. Nothing remotely possible for more than one player and not with the current tech; which rules out any MMORPG using AI.

J1NG

 

[Teh_Troll]

You're giving current AI too much credit.

Give it 5 years.

 

[J1NG]

Give it 5 years.

I doubt even in 5 years. It's not AI itself (as a concept) that's the issue, it's the models in use, they're a bit of a dead end with how they are right now. A change is needed before on that front before 5 years is even a viable projection. And currently, everyone is just jumping onto the same thing right now so no reason to change.

J1NG

 

[Rage]

I doubt even in 5 years. It's not AI itself (as a concept) that's the issue, it's the models in use, they're a bit of a dead end with how they are right now. A change is needed before on that front before 5 years is even a viable projection. And currently, everyone is just jumping onto the same thing right now so no reason to change.

J1NG

Well I’m definitely NOT an expert on AI.

Not sure how much of it is hype vs. reality.

But it does kinda ignite the imagination when you can have a full blown on-the-fly conversation with an AI barmaid inside the yawning portal on the Sword Coast and talk about everything from the Zhentarim scourge to what’s actually down that hole in the middle of the Inn.

Which you can on ChatGPT right now.

 

[Ahser]

As long as they won't shut down DDO, I don't really care. If it's good, I'll check it out. If it's not, whatever.

 

[Phoenicis]

Re: AI

Subscription only MMO, with a (relatively) large monthly fee. Tempting, if it works as you hope. Color me skeptical though.

 

[gnarledmaw]

Anytime these corporate clowns reinvents the wheel, they always screw over their customers in favor of their fiduciary responsibilities. For once, I'd like to see things play out differently, but alas, American culture is all about monetary success at any cost. Everyone and everything else will just get run over in the process.

Just look at what the AAA developers / publishers have done with their cross-platform games. All of which are hype and dump cash grabs that are not intended to be internally supported after the first year. After which, it's wash-rinse-repeat... Which is what I'm betting all these new little DnD franchises will become too.

Youve taken to your conditioned programming well. Dispose of nose and await further orders. The rest our readers should please turn their attention to Dodge v Ford Motor Co.

 

[Jhml]

Forget any type of WoW-killer. Gimme a turn based, combat heavy D&D mmorpg I can play with my tablet, and I'll drop DDO like a hot potato. Loved Warriors of Waterdeep.

 

[vryxnr]

Just pointing out, we've been lied to by omission. The OP of this thread copy-pasted the entire article into this thread, but the article omitted a vital line. That one line deletion is the cause of much of the outrage in these replies. The original article has now amended itself and added that line back in.

This is what the article now states:

Finally, given the enormous, resurgent popularity of D&D – and noting Hight's background with World of Warcraft – we wonder why there isn't a D&D MMORPG with a similar level of popularity to Blizzard's.

Hight is quick to point to Dungeons & Dragons Online, originally developed by Turbine, but thinks there could be room for a new D&D MMORPG.

"I'd love to have that," he says. "I think that we'll want to rethink what an MMO is in this day and age. I think the traditional model that Blizzard – well, even before that, Ultima Online, Everquest – pursued, that could use updating.

So they ARE aware of this game's existence (the journalist was not). And it seems clear to me that they do not have any real ownership/oversight beyond licenses. The "I'd love to have that" with the amended line about DDO just before it makes it seem to be in reference to DDO itself (though it could also be just for a new D&D MMO, either way the guy is aware of this game's existence).

 

[Ahser]

Just pointing out, we've been lied to by omission. The OP of this thread appeared to have copy-pasted the entire article into this thread, but they did not. They copy-pasted the entire thing AND DELETED ONE LINE, and that one line deletion is the cause of much of the outrage in the replies.

This is what the article originally stated:



So they ARE aware of this game's existence (the journalist was not). And it seems clear to me that they do not have any real ownership/oversight beyond licenses, as the "I'd love to have that" is in reference to DDO itself.

Ah, "there could be room" doesn't sound like they'd be willing to shut down DDO.

 

[Rage]

Just pointing out, we've been lied to by omission. The OP of this thread appeared to have copy-pasted the entire article into this thread, but they did not. They copy-pasted the entire thing AND DELETED ONE LINE, and that one line deletion is the cause of much of the outrage in the replies.

This is what the article originally stated:



So they ARE aware of this game's existence (the journalist was not). And it seems clear to me that they do not have any real ownership/oversight beyond licenses, as the "I'd love to have that" is in reference to DDO itself.

Actually, I don’t think that line existed from my initial read of that article (swear it). That’s what stood out, no mention of DDO anywhere. Hmm…

EDIT

Yup, I was right. Thought I was going crazy there for a second…

 

[vryxnr]

Actually, I don’t think that line existed from my initial read of that article (swear it). That’s what stood out, no mention of DDO anywhere. Hmm…

EDIT

Yup, I was right. Thought I was going crazy there for a second…

ah, fair point then. Perhaps an edit of your OP, as many people do not like to click links and will read your copy-pasted version instead (and thus come to the same misinformed conclusion). I will in turn edit my post to reflect this.

 

[Rage]

ah, fair point then. Perhaps an edit of your OP, as many people do not like to click links and will read your copy-pasted version instead (and thus come to the same misinformed conclusion). I will in turn edit my post to reflect this.

Done, also deleted the meme as it lost it’s meme’ing after the edit on the original article by the journalist.

 

[Mindos]

Bah! The Angry Mob doesn't stop, there's no "reading"! It's loot and pillage, party all night long! To the lumberyard!!!!

 

[Nebless]

So they ARE aware of this game's existence (the journalist was not). And it seems clear to me that they do not have any real ownership/oversight beyond licenses, as the "I'd love to have that" is in reference to DDO itself.

I took "I'd love to have that" to reference 'a new D&D MMORPG' and not DDO, although I fully agree they don't have any ownership/oversight beyond licenses.